tips and tricks Closed cell tips and tricks...

[gum-nuts]

I will get my new kite on Thursday and then will be heading to Lefroy on Friday, I've been watching this video by Ozone (see below) to get an idea how to launch and land the closed cell depower as its a bit different from my depowers, which I hot launch, hot wired in the buggy.

Any tips and tricks  you use with your closed cells? I reckon after a bit of getting used to it I will be hot launching as well...

[twojaythomo]

All these instructional videos are with low wind.

It's easy on the sand too, things get interesting when your on grass and the wind is 15+ knots and the dam kites leading edge keeps flipping and twisting up from slight direction change.

 

I say hot launch every time,  just have a clear drag line.

[nigel]

My ARC's need much the same system.

 

Biggest problem with ARC's, and no doubt any closed leading edge kite is the fact they don't like it when they are under inflated.

So yes keeping some bar pressure on it, slows it down, and allows it to inflate better (opens the tips) than allowing it to speed to the top (or edge) of the window to only luff or over fly due to low internal air pressure. Quite the bane of many an ARC user.

And ARC's can also bow tie!!  Not fun with a 10m kite doing it's best propeller impression in 20 knots!! 

 

Not sure if this will work, but it is a great tip for other ARC users in very light winds.

Push the air to the tips, before you launch.

It's the tips on an ARC that will twist, causing bow ties, but if these have a good amount of air in them, they keep the rest of the kite in one piece, and the main valves are in the centre, so they will fill the main body very quickly.

 

Not too keen on the hot launch, I find I have far more control to move (should things not go to plan) when standing rather than strapped in a buggy.

And if the kites at the edge of the window, it will sit and slowly inflate rather than explosively inflate and send you skyward.

I tend to keep mine stalled until I know there's enough air in it, before I let it rip. 

 

And the smaller the kite, the faster it all happens.

That means when it goes pear shaped your going to have to able to react quicker, to either recover, or bail.

And more wind as well, makes it harder again, as the kites never stay where you want them to, or they flip a tip, or snag a line easier.

 

I love the way walking down the flag out line looks so simple in the video.

In real life, you'll have an inflated kite flapping like a kangaroo in a sleeping bag, and the kite pulling quite hard, as your using the kite in it's upper wind range. Fun! Not!

[SoutherlyBuster]

GumNuts,

The launch style for the Chrono is similar to the FlySurfers. In the higher winds, do not hot launch, unless you want to join the Darwin Awards. In higher winds be prepared to go along with the ride and at the same time fly the kite to the edge of the window. Fortunately with the FlySurfers and I assume the same for the Chrono's but very unlike the Peter Lynn Arcs, you don't need to fully inflate to lauch, with a side benefit full power does not immediately turn on and less hassles. The Arcs are known for being buggers to launch if not fully inflated. Had my Arc bow tie plenty of times, but never happened with my FlySurfers. It comes down to the bridles all the way across the span of the kite in the FS and Ozones, whereas with the PL Arcs have the attachment points only at the wing tips.

[jaysmith]

how come there are never tips and tricks videos in 20 + knots when things quickly go pear shaped?

[plummet]

The biggest difference between closed and open cell bridled foils is inflation/deflation speed.

Closed cell will take longer to inflate and will stay inflated for a while while landing. This makes it harder to launch and land.

Sand the wind ting and launch and the edge or the window the same way you do with the manta/access. I don't bother to preinflate. The 12 inflates fast enough. The 7 will be inflated in no time.

Once in the air yourl need to keep some bar pressure on or you may get tip tucks. Keep bar pressure until its fully inflated. Then you are ready to go.

 

To land pull the landing strap when the kite is at 45 (not the zenith). Then teather the strap to a stake or the buggy. Run your arse to the kite fast and flag it out. Foil the wing tips together and role it up.

 

[twojaythomo]

 In the higher winds, do not hot launch, unless you want to join the Darwin Awards.

I know i shouldn't but I hot launch my 12m speed3 in 15+ kts but it is under inflated and I get dragged about 20 meters down wind but I find it fun and only on the sand.

How ever I would not likely do this with my FS P2 12m, that thing scares me a bit.

Edited September 19, 2015 by twojaythomo

[gum-nuts]

@plummet what are your best tips for getting the speed out of the r1? And then slowing it down?

I want to beat the vapors at Lefroy!

[nigel]

@plummet what are your best tips for getting the speed out of the r1? And then slowing it down?

I want to beat the vapors at Lefroy!

OK. 

Go across the face of the wind, till the buggy starts pulling you down wind (washes out the back or front, you'll need to tune your buggy so you get a 3 wheel drift happening), veer off a little down wind, repeat process, trying to hold as tight a line against the kite as possible.

Theory says you should be doing 3 times wind speed at 5 degrees off true down wind when you hit max speed.

 

Slowing???

Just like normal. But a little bit slower and more careful. Take the kite above your head (as I'm sure you don't want to send the kite the opposite direction as yourself at 80+kph), and edge slowly, till you reach a speed you know you can slide.

You can also fish tail a little to slow down, but watch out, if you do too bigger inputs, you'll induce a tank slapper.

 

Wear a helmet and I'd even look into an old leather jacket, salt burn wounds don't heal very fast. 

[gum-nuts]

I always wear a helmet, knee and elbow pads - thought I might take this to Lefroy as well as some decent gloves...

[MaxVMGRacing]

@plummet what are your best tips for getting the speed out of the r1? And then slowing it down?

I want to beat the vapors at Lefroy!

 

This season in hydrofoil land... things have got insane!!! We riding more powered up than you would have even dare to consider 12 months ago.
We pushing our 15m R1 in upto 18knots, 11m to 24knots and well over 30knost for 8m. The new foils even when full depowered dont fall back into the wind window as much, yet still crank upwind even when full depowered. I had the 11m out today in 18-22 knots, just about  full depowered at times and still hammering upwind.

This is making launching and landing a bit nerve wrecking.  do not hot launch.... and keep conmtrol of the kite. Sheet them in enough still they stall and start edging back and they seem to lose just about all their power. But let the rear lines go, and as soon as airflow restarts over the wing its game on... you going to get launched.
Best bet is 45 degree launch in high wind, keep control at all times of the kites forward movcment by grabing the steering lines and holding tension on them.

As for speed, let the kite breathe, dont over sheet and dont be scared to depower abit to get the kiet flying clean as possible. We now flying the kites super low to get maxium pull upwind , ride the gusts out, each gust is extra upwind surge. low kite also stops you keeting lift off foil and out of seat, use all that pull to get upwind. Strangley enough we stealing tips from the buggies... we going super short on our lines 18-20m for small kites and 21-25m for the larger sizes.
If very very powered, start with kite high... find your upwing angle lock it in then bring the kite down.... you'll hold your line. and let the kite breathe. Even more so if flying the kite in the bottom of its wind range... over sheeting causes the airflow over the wing to stall and the power "turns off".
Heading back down wind... doesnt matter how over powered you were up wind, once you gte to to the top mark, let all the depower out... maxium power, bring kite up high and send it down as you round the mark to launch you down wind. on the smaller sizes you could even back loop but its risky as the pull is instnat and EPIC... on water if it goes wrong you luanched down wind around 75m bouncing along the water... on land thats gonna hurt, alot! so maybe best just stick to up high then striaght down and you round and point down wind. Sign the kite 2 more times and let it breathe again with abit of bar pressure again nice and low.

Slowing, full depower.... bring you kite up high, and depending how powered up tease the kite beyond 12 overhead to act as a slight air break as you turn back upwind slightly.

Best tip for upwind line. gte some forward speed then lock in you line upwind with kite overhead , and then bring the kite down low... let kite breathe and work its way to the edge of the wind window and then dont be afraid to let more depower out to power the kite up even further. Let it all out and feel the pull build and build   The power you can hold down in the situation is vastly more than if you reaching and then tried to carve up wind, if you try full power and then carve up wind you end up getting dragged off line and natural tendency is you bring kite up higher to spill off the power.

 

 

Edited September 19, 2015 by MaxVMGRacing

[nigel]

Any loose pads will move when your dragged, so elbow or knee pads will take the first hit, but will not remain in place by the dragging action.

Been there, done that. I know they move.

The salt surface is like sand paper, if you think your thin suit is going to take 5-6 seconds of hard rubbing/dragging (think of a belt sander being applied to you), then you have bigger danglies than me, or a much higher pain threshold.

 

Now your hot wired (?), you will take all falls to the shoulders and head, so some protection of the shoulders would be advised.

I'd look at a second hand or cheap motorcycle jacket.

Plan for the worst, hope for the best.

[Chook]

Totally agree Nigel. I wear motorbike armour. Ask John how long a salt wound takes to heal when you meet him.

You won't slide much if the salt is dry. It's like 60grit sandpaper. Just leaves black marks in the turn. There is absolutely no friction and my first visit in the kite buggy I was seriously alarmed when I kept overtaking the kite trying to slow down. It's a great experience. Just don't stand up out of the buggy and expect it to still be there when you look back, as the wind will take it away.

I haven't been buggying much since Easter so well out of practice. Wont take much to out run my Vapors till I get it dialled back in.

Kite stakes don't work as the surface is too bloody hard to get them to even scratch a mark on the surface. Need to bring a sand bag that's disposable (it will wick in super saline water and pull moisture from the middle of next week into it forever),or a helper. The leg of some old pants is perfect with a ziptie each end. A 2ltr rectangular plastic bottle works well too.

[MaxVMGRacing]

make sure sand bag doesnt havent anything that can hook onto bridle. Those srping loaded clasps on the sandbag ropes get hooked easily. Best to tuck them into the top of the sandbag or remove them and justtie a knot to seal the sand bag.

I'll send a few sand-bags along with Gumnutes for Lefroy

One more importnat thing with these very high aspect race foils... they can over fly you in instant especially if gusty. Keep lots bar preasure when standing stil to make sure they stand abit downwind, best to keep kite down at 10 or 2 rather than 12 as well just to be safe. if you find yourself in any situation, sothing like a missed tack, where kite has though well you stay there i'll just keep going up wind without out... pull on a steering line hard to send it back around down wind or pull the break line as an emergency to stall the kite back down wind.

 

[andy666]

I never pre-inflate my flysurfers. Just launch them and they will fill up soon enough. I often launch, jump in the buggy and start moving with the kite still only half inflated. Then when they pop into shape, hold on!

[plummet]

A lot of good advice here. With the exception of vmg's take the kite to the zenith to slow down. That's a good method on the water when it doesn't matter if you get plucked into the air. On the land on a concrete hard  salt flat.... you probably don't want to catch air at 80 kph. Keep the kite low (maybe 45 deg max) and run towards to slacken the lines and shed some speed (don't slackline the kite too much, Just enough to loose power but retain shape), Then bear upwind sliding. HOWEVER my advice is based on sand experience where you simply slide when the power comes on bearing upwind. I have never ridden a salt flat.

As far as going fast is concerned. Its the same process as what you have used on the manta access. The R1 will just go faster and generate more pull at speed. Use the bar as a throttle. The faster you go the more downwind you can run. When the kite pulls you more downwind run with it, Find that magic line between line tension and speed. Bar is usually 3/4 in at that point.  The fastest fun shows an arc heading more an more down wind as you go faster and faster the wind window shifts back. At some point the window will be so far back that the you will be 90 deg to the kite  and that is the fastest you can go with that kite/buggy/wind speed. 

 

Going upwind is the same sort of trade off between line tension. when really powered. Depower the kite and you will go upwind at a higher angle. Then power up again for the downwind speed run.

 

[gum-nuts]

I think the speed will come as my confidence increases with the kite. I'm a cautious pilot and am not going to let it rip (so I don't RIP) the first time I fly it. Not only for my sake but I don't want to do anything that's going to damage the kite! I understand there is going to be a learning curve.

The harness is coming with me to Lefroy and I will use this to launch, land and fly with at first. 

And I'm used to pushing the kites upwind so that you can then get that perfect speed run downwind.

getting the R1 and heading to Lefroy what a combination.

[ssayre]

looking forward to some r1 pics/video @gum-nuts.  Hopefully you have the perfect wind to feel it out.

[gum-nuts]

looking forward to some r1 pics/video @gum-nuts.  Hopefully you have the perfect wind to feel it out.

the weather is looking awesome, the wind forecast not so good until Monday, still early, things can change

[Northern Kites Australia]

how come there are never tips and tricks videos in 20 + knots when things quickly go pear shaped?

Cause manufacturers don't want to scare off potential customers.

[gum-nuts]

How to OBE without making a complete arse of yourself! Or killing yourself!

sounds like a good video title for @RedSky

[SoutherlyBuster]

How to OBE without making a complete arse of yourself! Or killing yourself!

sounds like a good video title for @RedSky

Actually not so dumb an idea, I saw some videos of this for kite surfing foil boards, they showed both the good and bad ways of doing an Off-Board-experience (OBE). Though must admit OBEs on the water hurt a lot less.