Peter lynn Vapor

[Darren Tibbey]

Anyone give me any advice on a 8 or 9 mtr Vapor? Are they worth the money?

Cheers

Dazz.

[nigel]

Vapors are the king of race kites.

Smooth, yet easy to fly. Much like the old Airea Raptors, but with more poke.

The Vapor II's increased the speed, yet lost the friendly kite aspect.

The mark one's are the pick of the bunch for a fixed bridle kite.

Only beaten now by the high aspect de-power race kites, Ozone R1, Flysurfer Sonic, F1 Diablo, etc.

[Chook]

In the larger sizes I have a 6.5, 9.4 and a 13.4 Mark 1 Vapor and love em.

4.5 and 6.5 are my most used Vapors. I haven't tried a mark 2 but agree with Nigel's comments.

The Mark one's are fantastic kites. They still go upwind a bit better than my Ozone R1's. Would love to get some time on a Mk 2 Vapor.

[Darren Tibbey]

Thanks that helps alot.

Dazz 

[.Joel]

21 hours ago, nigel said:

The Vapor II's increased the speed, yet lost the friendly kite aspect.

You've flown one?

[Darren Tibbey]

Me or Nigel? Me No. But want to.

Been doing some research. Kite prices seem to have gone through the roof since i was in the shop. Now sold without lines or handles. Whats with that?

[mik333]

Hi Darren,

I remember you from the old days. Kites are sold line and handle free so that you can choose the items that suit you. I.E. you pay more.

Some kites are more expensive, such as the R1, but there are a few that are more reasonable.

Remember that a 5 metre Quadrifoil Classic cost me $800 in 1995. Steve threw in lines as a bonus. That was a lot of money then.

We will catch up sometime at 13th beach.

Michael

[jhn.holgate]

Aren't the Cross Kites Sonic supposedly much like the Vapor 1?  That could be a more affordable alternative.

Another alternative might be the Pansh Ace II - from what I understand it doesn't handle quite as well as the vapor but the performance is only a smidge less for far, far less $$$.  @Chook spent a bit of time at Kingston with the 4m Ace II and may be able to tell you a bit more...

Another one that comes to mind, but I don't know much about it, is the Zebra Z2 / Z3?  I see them quite a bit in the European racing scene - I've flown the Z1's and think they are one of the best value/best made kites I've seen.

[Chook]

2 hours ago, jhn.holgate said:

Another alternative might be the Pansh Ace II - from what I understand it doesn't handle quite as well as the vapor but the performance is only a smidge less for far, far less $$$.  @Chook spent a bit of time at Kingston with the 4m Ace II and may be able to tell you a bit more...

Ah that's a very good point John, I had forgotten about that.

Yes I was well impressed with the 4 mtr Ace 2 and went straight back onto my 3.8 Vapor and there was not a lot of difference in performance. The Ace was only 1/2 a gear down in speed and upwind ability. Had very similar flying traits as a vapor too.

For the money they are fantastic value. Graphics on the kite are awesome and build is well done, well worth a look!!!!! Still 50% off if you register too.

http://www.panshkite.com/

I have a 1.5mtr Cross Quattro and it is well built. My mate has used it on his ocean going kayak.

[Darren Tibbey]

Ok now that im totally confused. What are you all flying? A range of everything?

 

[Mez]

31 minutes ago, Darren Tibbey said:

Ok now that im totally confused. What are you all flying? A range of everything?

 

Pretty much Darren - the skies are filled with several brands and styles on meets.

[Chook]

Yes not loyal to any particular brand but have more Peter Lynn kites. Not to proud to give anything a fly. I'm on a budget so only can afford second hand gear.

[plummet]

The fixed brldle race kite is dead! long live the depower close cell race foil!

[Darren Tibbey]

Thanks guys really appreciate the feed back.

[igeighty]

On 30/11/2016 at 4:36 PM, Chook said:

but have more Peter Lynn kites

if you ever wish to own 'less' you know where i am ca'ching

 

I have loads of different kites now darren. my first go in the buggy was mid 90's and i had 3 kites, a 6meter quadrifoil. a 5 and 6 meter peel.

i had a 5 stack of 'blowflies' from the great bob dawson which i know recognise as a speed wing., And a pair of stacked kites called 311, (heavy framed dual lines).

when i got back into buggies in about 2009 i bought a peter lynn 'viper 5.3 meter's was an older kite that i bought at new kite prices. but i loved it.i has a ton of pull in 10-15 knots and flys so very gracefully. and in the low wind, it flys like a big puffy rev . it really works well in a steady onshore breeze. the Viper has a similar shape to a vapor, however the viper is fatter and doesn't go nearly as quick.

second kite i bought was a peter lynn hornet 3.0 meter from one of the wiser admins here. It is great in gusty conditions being a really low aspect kite.
In a low breeze you could get anyone to fly it. but in a strong wind, it has pulled me quite fast along the beach. great kite

Then i got hold of some PKD brooza's in 2 and 3 meter sizes. these are angry little buggers and will frack you up in 25-35 knots. those kites have kicked my ass so many times. but i love them. the are 'racey' kites and has a lot of pull. 

Next i bought a set of ozone methods from one of the wiser admins here, 3,4,5 and 6.5 meter. those are very sweet kites. i really trust those kites 'NOT' to kick my ass. good power, yet a safer more mellow feel. They also can pull you along pretty quick in many wind ranges. again, i love them.

I then bought a smaller 2.6 meter peter lynn Viper. i kicked my ass a few times too.... it is a smaller version of its bigger brother so it just happened faster with this kite.
I love the kite as would be my goto kite when it is 25+ knots. very fast and easily controllable. i was give a good run in high winds. Or on a light day it becomes super playful fluffy rev, as it really responds well to flying on the brakes.

I bought a HQ prodigy 4m off joel. it took a couple of sessions to get used to the 'keep it moving' method of flying a race kite. it is a good quick kite. it needs to keep moving through the window or it kindve defaults an dies. But when it kicks in, it has a wallop.

Then one day a parcel arrived in the post from my western australian friend. I saw it was from @Chook. I opened it up and near fell over when out popped a 5.4 meter vapor race kite. 
i flew the kite once inland, in a dodgy north westerly at presidents park and flew great. it wasn't until i flew it at sandy point speed week, that i really started to appreciate it. the vapor was flying in 7-12 knots i think... (waratah bay session) and it was getting me almost to 60k's it loved to keep moving, When you get the canopy filled to pressure it flys with an extra gear almost as the apparent wind kicks in and you can park it and ride at speed. i love vapors and wish to purchase many more.

Then i bought a fly surfer sonic 9 m . i can see it is an awesome kite in @.Joel's hands. But sadly, i suck. i need to give more time to learn depower kites. I get more time on it over summer i hope.

TLDR: You can never have to many kites, and i want more peter lynn vapors.

 

....psss buy a vapor (<-- your conscience

 

2  meter PKD Brooza
3 meter PKD Brooza
3 meter Peter Lynn Hornet
4 meter HQ Prodigy 
5.0 meter Pansh Sprint
2.6 meter Peter Lynn Viper
5.3 meter Peter Lynn Viper
5.4 meter Peter Lynn Vapor (thanks chook)
3 meter Ozone Method
4 meter Ozone Method
5 meter Ozone Method
6.5 meter Ozone Method
9m Flysurfer Sonic FR
10 meter Gin Yeti

[plummet]

13 hours ago, igeighty said:

 

Then i bought a fly surfer sonic 9 m . i can see it is an awesome kite in @.Joel's hands. But sadly, i suck. i need to give more time to learn depower kites. I get more time on it over summer i hope.

 

How do you suck? what are you having difficulty with?

You can do sooo much more with a closed cell depower once you get the handle of the jandle. 

The trick is to find the sweet spot pulling the bar in. To much bar in will stall the kite, not enough will leave you underdone (unless overpowered). Usually that sweet spot is half to 2/3's in. 

Think of it like pulling a bit of brake line tension on your fixed bridles. Works the same way except you have way more aoa adjustment at the bar than you do on handles on a fixed bridle. 

 

 

[nigel]

I think @igeighty has no experience flying de-powers, so hence the "I suck" comment.

 

We were all there at one point, it's just putting more hours in.

[Mez]

9 hours ago, nigel said:

I think @igeighty has no experience flying de-powers, so hence the "I suck" comment.

He'll get there with the guidance from you guys  

20+ years of fixed bridle kites, you tend to get comfortable and proficient. 

 

[igeighty]

^what she said

I can't confidently get my brain to control the kite when i am flying the sonic. this is only based on two flights with it static. i am assured it gets better when rolling.

learning de-power system for me is best described as going from dual line sport kite to a rev. the bar seems counter intuitive to the handles system. It will take a while for the old brain to re-learn its left as rights.

This will only come from practice, i can setup, inflate, take off and land the sonic. I'm juts not that confident what will happen when it goes through the wind window.

with handles, you can feel the kite and know what it is doing, when to tweak the brakes etc,.
I don't have the practice (yet) with the bar and trim system. I will get there, with more practice. and one day i might even make it look good

 

its exactly as nigel said 'I have more confidence with handles, just not so with the bar.

[Mfwetu]

 

3 hours ago, igeighty said:

I can't confidently get my brain to control the kite when i am flying the sonic. this is only based on two flights with it static. i am assured it gets better when rolling.

I know how you feel having only got into depowers a few years ago after many years of traction kiting on handles. For me things only clicked once I got moving with the kite and could guide it rather than trying to dominate it from an anchored position. Everything falls into place very quickly after that - a little practice and you'll be giving it horns

[Chook]

On ‎12‎/‎4‎/‎2016 at 9:01 AM, igeighty said:

I can't confidently get my brain to control the kite when i am flying the sonic. this is only based on two flights with it static. i am assured it gets better when rolling.

learning de-power system for me is best described as going from dual line sport kite to a rev. the bar seems counter intuitive to the handles system. It will take a while for the old brain to re-learn its left as rights.

This will only come from practice, i can setup, inflate, take off and land the sonic. I'm just not that confident what will happen when it goes through the wind window.

with handles, you can feel the kite and know what it is doing, when to tweak the brakes etc,.
I don't have the practice (yet) with the bar and trim system. I will get there, with more practice. and one day i might even make it look good

 

its exactly as nigel said 'I have more confidence with handles, just not so with the bar.

I was exactly the same and very hesitant to get onto my 7mtr R1. I flew only my 6mtr Access at Kingston in South Aust with John Holgate's insistence and slowly settled in on a bar. I only wanted to try the higher performance R1 on the beach in case I buggered up badly and crashed. This didn't happen as by the time I'd grown enough balls to try it out, the wind didn't play the game. (I had owned depowers for 3 years prior to that and it always ended in tears when I had tried to learn by myself before.)

It was "Gannet's" coaching, perseverance and insistence over Easter that pulled me through into the depower age. Pete showed me the extra control that can be achieved by using the new moulded soft ozone race bar ends, folding these down onto the bar and "tent poling it" for more steering/propeller turns. An R1 turns just like a Revolution kite doing this.

I really struggled to get my old brain to unlearn the "bar- versus- brakes" syndrome. Even now I sometimes still try to V the centre of the bar when I'm screaming down the beach to lift the kite or drop it back in the window.

I think @andy666 will well remember the time he hassled me out, for continuing to figure 8 wrap my lines completely around only the centre of my bar (like I do my handles) as I packed up after a very long session. The body was stuffed and the brain was on auto pilot.

I have relaxed a lot, but it's the "OH SHIT" moments that I revert back to muscle memory and stuff up badly on the bar.

I have seen the reverse of this with Rob Lukin. I think he had a leak in his LEI and had changed down to a small hotwired fixed bridal. He down looped the kite as he took off and then let go of one of the handles and flicked it around to untwist his lines with an very interesting ending!!!!

This is all part of the learning curve I guess and if your never ever extending your self, or learning something new, you may as well be dead anyway.

[plummet]

Man you guys are conservative. Go get in your buggy and  fly!  Fly, fly some more. 

yes therel be oh shit moments. But who cares. pull the safety, re rig and carry on. 

Fixed bridles punish you way more than depowers. You can depower at the bar, you can pull further depower at the trim strap, you can pull a safety and flag the kite out. That power spike is no where near as brutal as a fixed bridle race kite! You can slack line the kite watch it fall out of the sky and simple tack upwind and snap it back....

 

Go in with the mind set that its an easy controllable kite, and it will be.

[Chook]

1 hour ago, plummet said:

Man you guys are conservative. Go get in your buggy and  fly!  Fly, fly some more. 

yes therel be oh shit moments. But who cares. pull the safety, re rig and carry on. 

Fixed bridles punish you way more than depowers. You can depower at the bar, you can pull further depower at the trim strap, you can pull a safety and flag the kite out. That power spike is no where near as brutal as a fixed bridle race kite! You can slack line the kite watch it fall out of the sky and simple tack upwind and snap it back....

 

Go in with the mind set that its an easy controllable kite, and it will be.

Ha ha yeh @plummet,but old farts don't bounce so well mate!!!!

[CHRIS K854]

well after racing on vapors for nearly 5 years i can thoroughly recommend them as a superb stable fast kite, even for a race kite novice they are easy to use and fly quick on.

the mk2 on the other hand whist very quick in the right hands is not one id recommend to a novice as it requires alot more pilot input.

 

The new closed cell depowers are just amazing. I have raced the R1 and Diablo and flown most of the others. As long as you have a few Depower basics you will be up and running in no time. The trick is that to get the most out of them you need to spend the time learning them as the speed comes from the pilot input and its a touchy,feely skill that needs a bit of time to learn. The beauty of them is that they are so much more forgiving than Fb kites with a nice big overlap in wind range so if your racing a 11 and 15 can both be competitive in the same wind 

[.Joel]

On 04/12/2016 at 0:01 PM, igeighty said:

I'm juts not that confident what will happen when it goes through the wind window.

That's why you learn on a mid-aspect to low-aspect for a few sessions on something more forgiving.
But hey, horse to water...

I reckon you should sell your Sonic-FR and stick with your vapors