Pansh A15 Prototype

[Kiter_from_Germany]

55 minutes ago, .Joel said:

Please, lay off the acid. After tacking I finished right next to my car, and if it wasn't for that fracked up bar there wouldn't of needed to be any tacking up the beach.  In the buggy, kitebar in hand, finished right next to the car.  I've got the whole trip back up the beach on video  

....

Hi together,

I'm the guy from good old germany, already ordered a pansh A15 in 18m in familiy colors, but still have to wait for it (same situation as described above, still). So I'm curious regarding everything with the  topic 'pansh'.

At the moment I can't follow the discussion precisely.

To be honest, I don't understand the discussion beyond the joking parts and teasings regarding beeing able to go with or without walk of shame.

My question is for Joel, why did you fight with the bar setup, I understand this right?

Was it a bad trim, or the width of the bar (I think pansh supplys a 60-65cm Bar, core is 55?). Or are you used to go with handles?.

Happy to hear from you, if you won't mind?

See you on the spot (in two years I'm down under-> present for my wife, ...(hopefully I'm talking to australia, now) :o)

[.Joel]

1 hour ago, Kiter_from_Germany said:

My question is for Joel, why did you fight with the bar setup, I understand this right?

Was it a bad trim, or the width of the bar (I think pansh supplys a 60-65cm Bar, core is 55?). Or are you used to go with handles?.

The bar I am using is not a Pansh bar, it's a Core Bar.  Unfortunately the design of the bar won't allow you to pull the bar in or push it away from you whilst you are turning the kite sharply, it locks on to the centre lines.  This is great for kiteboarders who want to do hooked-in kite loops without the pull of the kite on their arms, but it severely limits your ability to work the kite as you push upwind.

 

[Mfwetu]

9 hours ago, .Joel said:

if it wasn't for that fracked up bar

Psssst! @Fernando, here's your chance mate - make him an offer before  works out how to use it

[Northern Kites Australia]

On 29/1/2016 at 1:44 AM, .Joel said:

The bar I am using is not a Pansh bar, it's a Core Bar.  Unfortunately the design of the bar won't allow you to pull the bar in or push it away from you whilst you are turning the kite sharply, it locks on to the centre lines.  This is great for kiteboarders who want to do hooked-in kite loops without the pull of the kite on their arms, but it severely limits your ability to work the kite as you push upwind.

 

Ahem.... ya wanna sell it?

On 28/1/2016 at 10:36 PM, .Joel said:

If you like your Speed3 you'll find some similarities.  I had probably one of my most enjoyable days kiting with the A15 at Kingston, it's a solid kite.  Upwind performance is really good, down wind is excellent, across the window it's just such a stable and reliable kite.  It isn't however a fast turning kite (not the 15 anyway), the Speed is certainly quicker turning and has more depower available on the bar throw.  Choice between a used Speed3 vs the A15.... hard choice.

And a proper review pending @.Joel  ?!

[.Joel]

3 hours ago, Fernando said:

Ahem.... ya wanna sell it?

It will be up for sale shortly, just ordered new Peter Lynn Navigator bars.
 

Quote

And a proper review pending @.Joel  ?!

Weekend, review is written I need a lackie to help get some photos during the week.

[agriarte]

Also it will be interesting to know a comparison Aurora vs A15

[.Joel]

On 1 February 2016 at 8:36 PM, .Joel said:

Weekend, review is written I need a lackie to help get some photos during the week.

Thank you @nigel, @jaysmith and @Melissa for being my lackies  

[.Joel]

25 Detailed images of the Pansh A15 Kite which will make up part of the review, enjoy!

 

 

 

[.Joel]

Review complete, we can all look forward to @Fernando buying one now...  

 

 

 

[Northern Kites Australia]

6 hours ago, .Joel said:

Review complete, we can all look forward to @Fernando buying one now...  

 

Yeah for sure. Just waiting a little longer for another PANSH sale

 

 

Woah! What happened here?

 

[jaysmith]

49 minutes ago, Fernando said:

Woah! What happened here?

It was some of the famous Kingston seaweed that got in the lines on launch, pretty sure it fell of during the flight.

[Northern Kites Australia]

1 minute ago, jaysmith said:

It was some of the famous Kingston seaweed that got in the lines on launch, pretty sure it fell of during the flight.

Yeah thought so. Were you the photographer? Nice shots BTW

[jaysmith]

1 hour ago, Fernando said:

Yeah thought so. Were you the photographer? Nice shots BTW

I took some of the shots, thanks, I was surprised how good they turned out myself.

[Jussi Kaijasilta]

Hello,

Thank you for great review. I decided to buy this kite thanks to this review.

Ordered 12m version, with 25m lines, no bar (have peter lynn Navigator 4 line bar for this).

Very light weight. Weight on website is 15m version. My 12m including bag and bridles was 2500gr. It is between FS speed 4 lotus (2300gr) and FS speed 5 (2700gr).

Seems to be build ok. Stichwork is definitely not FS class, there are some loose lines here and there. But everything seem to be reinforced so this is hopefully mostly minor cosmetic thing.

Conversion to 4 line kite:

- It is easy to remove 5th line. There is no separate tabs for fifth line like in aurora. 5th line is connected to the center tabs on right side in my case.

- I need to try my setup in low wind to confirm does it work with FDS and 4 lines.

- There is absolutely no wind today  Cant wait to try it out! I will report how it goes!

edit 4.5.2016:

- Still no wind. I connected my lines to my bar. Bridles seem quite long compared to my speed 3 15m. I am worried about YZ and AXY lines. They are not sheeted like in my FS speed. I have had to replace my pulley lines in FS speed so no sheet makes me worried how long they will last. They can be easily replaced though.

 

[Kiter_from_Germany]

Hi, mine is a 18m sized A15. 

After primarily bad flying results after a lot of fiddeling I found my solution changing the bar to a 2:1 type. Now I'm able to get the two important points through a bar throw, which I like in our gusty conditions, which are: 

1) Throw the bar away till the point, the kite looses grip (gets negative aoa, to reduce force during gusts) (you can make it fly very fast also in depowered condition) ...

2) ...and - on the other side, bring the kite in slight backstall by pulling the bar to max (to brake it to prevent overflying).

2:1 bar gives me a very good turning speed, also of course.

Here is it:

Without the 2:1 bar the bar throw to get these two points is about >1,2m, which results in the need of a gear (I'm big, but no orang utan ). I think the main reason for that is the big depth of profile of A15 design.

Beside of the slight drawbacks of 2:1 bar, the performance of the kite is VERY WELL for me now. 

Could you share your experiences with your 12m version regarding the bar throw and steering?

What is the windrange you feel comfortable with the kite (and what is your weight :o)

Thanks

Rupert

[Northern Kites Australia]

I wonder if the older Cabrinha 2:1 Powerdrive bars would also work, or the Naish SLE Boxer bars?

[Kiter_from_Germany]

On 13. Mai 2016 at 5:42 AM, Fernando said:

I wonder if the older Cabrinha 2:1 Powerdrive bars would also work, or the Naish SLE Boxer bars?

Hi Fernando,

every 2:1 bar should work (of course with the right line fiddeling at connection points at the kite)

I was unfortunately not able to get bars with this design for a reasonable price here, so I decided to build one from a North Bar with the pansh bar rod.

The advantage for me was that I made it with a 5th line design, which I use at the moment.

By the way: The last two month I fiddled a lot to improve the flying parameters: I shortend lines (in and above the mixer) changed mixer in different setups (-> Malabar, ...) and so.

Malabar was very fine  (same flight characteristics than with the 2:1 Bar, but less pulleys) but the kite was not able to reverse start, which I need on the water (Thanks Regis-de-giens and foilholio, for remarking this in the malabar thread, I took this in my test procedure!). So I came back at last to 2:1 bar which works great for big kites especcially Pansh (I would assume from 15m on).

I'm so happy with the kite performance now, that I plan to buy a seconed, small pansh A15. For getting what size (9m or 12m) I need some high wind session with the 18m to get range of it with the new depower capabilities, I will report.

Here is what I did to my bar:

1: I attached grip balls on seperate pigtails

2: The central connection point is a doubled ring 15mm/3mm, to keep my (wet) 100kg in the air :o)
    Safety lines goes though it so make it easy to deturn
    the 2:1 steering lines fix points are splice looped and connected here

3: 2:1 steering lines, 2m. At the moment I use simple DC300 from liros which are
    not the best for that. But this is temporarily and I have the correct lines ordered (I will use Liros DPL 3mm later on)

4: My first setup was without those pigtails. But I desided to implement them because of two reasons:
   First: A pully low at the bar hinders you by gripping coincidently in the steering line during steering, (re)gripping
   Second: When you fall, a pully next to the bar will result in tangeld steering lines
   (the bar can fall easiy upon and over the steering lines)

I put my pigtails in a small water/gasoline hose to keep it stiff and the pulley away from the bar to prevent from
    the tangeled   steering line thing

5: In the floater I ended the (white) pigtails with a knot row The Bar is equipped with a seconed Pigtail (red) to have another 
    trim option here. The red line end seen in the picture is temporarily, it will be cut if I'm ready with the setup
    (it is something    like a seconed trim option, egg if I will go with a longer floater or so... 

All in all: The reincarnation of 2:1 bars in kite sport ;o)

 

[Chook]

Just received an email from Pansh.

PANSH A15 ME closed cell depower Kite has achieved great success worldwide since it was released.  Users give it a unanimous praise. Based on this fantastic kite design, we now are releasing an ultralight version.

The ultralight version is made of ultralight material and special production process. It used ultralight fabric and bridles. The weight of the ultralight version is 25% less than the standard version. It has the best ever performance.

Now Pansh is on the 2016 promotion all the products are on 50% off so the new released PANSH A15 ultralight version is part of the promotion. It is the best time to buy. Please visit Pansh website for more information.

Not too bad at $705 aussie dollars for a 15mt+ in standard colours, kite only.
 

[Kiter_from_Germany]

20 hours ago, Chook said:

Just received an email from Pansh.

PANSH A15 ME closed cell depower Kite has achieved great success worldwide since it was released.  Users give it a unanimous praise. Based on this fantastic kite design, we now are releasing an ultralight version.

The ultralight version is made of ultralight material and special production process. It used ultralight fabric and bridles. The weight of the ultralight version is 25% less than the standard version. It has the best ever performance.

Now Pansh is on the 2016 promotion all the products are on 50% off so the new released PANSH A15 ultralight version is part of the promotion. It is the best time to buy. Please visit Pansh website for more information.

Not too bad at $705 aussie dollars for a 15mt+ in standard colours, kite only.
 

Unfortunately there are some drawbacks at pansh.

They supply no service information (line lengths, mixer setup etc) which you need because the system comes pretty disadjusted sometimes - even in readytofly mode.

Although they don't have a after sales communication at all, at least to some buyers and me, and in our despair we started discussing this in the internet.

This all makes some nervous to continue ordering from them, being afraid, to stay left alone after purchase.

I hope  that pansh improves external communication seriously, because I like panshs engineering ideas and solutions but they have an issue in customer relation processes, definately.

I on my side had a RND session of TWO MONTH now and after all I'm fine with my A15/18m.

I'm still improving with my setup so I can say that technically they have great ideas in foil design but they should improve their communication (and bar system, which is not appropriate in 2016)

 

 

 

[socommk233]

On 27/01/2016 at 6:27 AM, Fernando said:

PANSH are renowned for being poor communicators. It's not that their dodgy, it's just that they probably get a tonne of questions from people wanting to know what their kites are like, how they perform, etc, and have so many back orders to fill and kites to make. Plus their English is not 100%. But I found Rose is good. She responds most of the time. Just don't ask them to offer you review space, like I did wanting to give them feedback on the Aurora and my bridle suggestions. They don't care about what we think of their kites. They only care about selling them! 

Disagree. Com's can be slow. But they have listened to my feedback. On the aurora 2 and the upcoming cerberus ?

[Kiter_from_Germany]

4 hours ago, socommk233 said:

Disagree. Com's can be slow. But they have listened to my feedback. On the aurora 2 and the upcoming cerberus ?

oh, thats nice you are lucky.

If you get a proper setup at aurora 2 I would appreciate to hear from you and your kite's performance.

CU

 

[socommk233]

2 minutes ago, Kiter_from_Germany said:

oh, thats nice you are lucky.

If you get a proper setup at aurora 2 I would appreciate to hear from you and your kite's performance.

CU

 

I do have a nicely set up aurora 2. ?

[Kiter_from_Germany]

16 hours ago, socommk233 said:

I do have a nicely set up aurora 2. ?

:o)

okok, I found your new posts and vid - that's great that it is working for you.

If you get an advanced bridle system from them, would you make a post of it and perhaps you could describe the differences?

Would be nice because I'm still looking for improvments.

Interestingly there seems to be a much bigger community out there mainly using pansh (Aurora, Aurora2 A15) for landboarding, snowkiting and buggying, than kite surfing. I think every sport has its one special requirements and what is well performing for one may fail for the other.
 

 

 

[socommk233]

57 minutes ago, Kiter_from_Germany said:

:o)

okok, I found your new posts and vid - that's great that it is working for you.

If you get an advanced bridle system from them, would you make a post of it and perhaps you could describe the differences?

Would be nice because I'm still looking for improvments.

Interestingly there seems to be a much bigger community out there mainly using pansh (Aurora, Aurora2 A15) for landboarding, snowkiting and buggying, than kite surfing. I think every sport has its one special requirements and what is well performing for one may fail for the other.
 

 

 

I received the v2 bridle.  Hated it. Couldn't make it fly right. 

V1 bridle works....but modified as I did makes it work better Imo. 

[agriarte]

In my experience Pansh communication is totally void. I wrote them 2 times after buying a 15m Aurora with lines and bars and months later I'm waiting for an answer

Their bar is crap, very poor design and don't work well.