jhn.holgate Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 markite having a blast on Lake Puslinch. Nice deadman turn towards the end too! Looks like a Hoot. Goz and IMK 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chook Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 Wow that looks like a hoot!!!! Not to forgiving on the equipment when it goes wrong though. Nice find John. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goz Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 Looks like a bunch of fun, but blades and kite lines don't seem to mix well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Groshens Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 Thanks for the repost here John. This small lake is just 5 min from my house (just outside Cambridge, Ontario, Canada) so I usually run over for a quick kite ski session a few nights during the week and then to larger lake on weekends. It's rare that we get the nice clean ice like that and the blade set up i have doesn't get used often. Most guys will have a ski or snowboard set up on the buggy but the skis will still bog down in heavy wet snow whereas the snowboards are like using big tires and go over anything - just the cost of throwing three snowboards on. In my excitement to get out I hadn't sharpened my blades since last year so the ideal conditions I found saturday soon left the rear blades dull from trying to hold more power in the later afternoon and I was getting more of that dragging blade sound that cuts down on speed, Late day (after the camera was full) had a good hour of better wind that built up to sunset and it was spectacular light and reflections and my buddy was on skates - i was hoping to capture some of that again sunday with sharpened blades. But the sky was dull, the wind spotty and warmer causing a melt - then forgetting for a second about riding on knives and I let the lines drop for a couple of seconds - oh well not a big deal just glad didn't have to do the walk of shame across the lake from the far corner. Mark Goz, igeighty, .Joel and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhn.holgate Posted February 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 Great video, Mark and something we never see in Australia (well, at least I've never seen anything like it!). Thanks for dropping in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Joel Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 @Mark Groshens I'm going to have to ask the obvious question someone who has never seen a frozen lake in real life has to ask... do you ever go through the ice? The ice looks superb, however I had never considered you lose the comfort of the tyres acting like suspension on a traditional buggy. Amazing video, thanks for putting it together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Groshens Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 hey Joel I have never gone through and I have a number of friends that are extremely wary to only go out when it's definitely thick and solid. The people that have broken though usually break through in areas where it's shallower water and in spots of this ice so they don't normally fully break through a hole but it has happened and it's usually the start of the season or pushing the end of the season. When it freezes we are looking at the quality of the ice - clear black ice is very hard with no air bubbles so a minimum of 4 inches of ice is required to walk on. if it's mixed with snow and air bubbles then thicker is better. We are usually going out to start the season when it's thick enough to support snowmobiles and then it gets thicker as long as it stays cold. Eventually it's thick enough to drive on with a car and then if gets even thicker and stronger you will see areas where groups of vehicles are parked by ice fishing huts etc. A number of years ago I met a fellow late october on a beach and he was asking about learning to surf. He had moved to Canada from South Africa and I told him there was no sense starting that late in the year because it's very cold water and by mid november there will be snow. I said come out in the winter, it's the best time to learn because you can go on a snowboard and that's very similar to using a twin tip in water but you don't have to worry about wind direction or sinking - starting small you can getting moving even if it's slow. Then once you go through crazy winter winds by the time warmer weather comes you have learned good kite skills and survival so that will help going to water. Anyway it was mid January the phone rings and this south aftrican accent saying remember me - I want to learn to kite. I gave him instructions to drive an hour or so north of Toronto to Lake Simcoe, follow this why, then this road and it brings you to the lake...drive onto the lake and go about a mile straight out and look for all the cars parked where the kiters set up ...... long pause .... "you want me to drive on water? Is that a wise idea?" So we only drive out on the ice when it's very thick and solid but there are times when there is a melt where ice fisherman will come and park side by side (also happened just last week in the US at a winter festival) and then on a warm day those vehicles grouped together will dish the ice and soon you have a big bowl with vehicles up half way up the doors in water - idiots! another story - I have friends that are usually first ones out for the season and last off - they always test ice thickness but sometimes they go out when I wouldn't risk the soft edges (it melt from the shoreline inward so a few feet on will be fine but the shore to that could be thin, soft etc). One weekend a number of years ago I had several friends break through and the same day a friend in the US that also has extensive winter experience also went through - the situation report was the same. They all spoke of going out early and checking ice and it was solid, they kited on a beautiful end of winter day with sun gleaming off the surface so you often feel quite hot kiting getting a sunburn. By mid afternoon they kited in areas and heard what sounded like glass clinking and then a sensation of the ice starting to have a bit of a roll like swells on a lake and then they broke through. All struggled to get out with the ice continuing to break. The one group of friends had to be rescued by the fire dept fan boat rescue, the friend in the states got himself out after a while. Tough to do when you go in wearing skis. What they all found out was there is a condition that can happen called candlestick ice. Sometimes ice can have a mix of organic matter in it (weeds or wind blown fine debris/dirt), it can be thick but under the right conditions the ice gets warm spots internally and starts to rot and melt so that it ends up having strands and columns supporting the surface that looks fine but no real structural support. When they travelled on it there was a slight wave created in the flexing ice and that wave built up and then an area where the candlestick ice just gives way shattering like glass - I have never experienced it as we are off the ice when it still in the safe zone and not the "probably" zone - but no guarantees at the start and end of the season if you are pushing the conditions. One last tid bit - talking about how ice melt from the shore inward, I have a friend that was in the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and did a post up in Yellowknife Yukon and ended up staying many years longer than expected and that's when he started kite skiing. He told me in the spring when the edges of the lake were water they would take the extension ladders and lay them from the shore across 10-15 feet of open water to get out to the good ice. He showed me a photo of him and friend walking across these ladders out to the ice, it was early to mid June - at this time of year we would most likely be in shorties surfing in southern ontario. mik333, .Joel, SoutherlyBuster and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chook Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 That's so bazar for me Mark!! Hard to understand frozen lakes etc. Yesterday was our 4th day in a row over 40 degrees C, but the cool change has arrived today. Thanks for taking the time to explain it. I'd love to give the ice a trundle in both a buggy and yacht. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhn.holgate Posted February 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 I simply can't imagine driving a car across a frozen lake! I once drove across a 'dry' salt lake.....very stupid idea. It was hard on top but once you break through it was yeeuuck!! I got through to the other side (only just) with a very muddy 4wd. Lesson was learnt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Groshens Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 a few photos from quite a few years back 1 you can see the cluster of cars parked on the lake not far from the shore. I think that group were mainly kiters and other were fisherman parking there and shuttled out to ice huts about a km out 2 A friend with his snow buggy and the original phantom. In the background is a small group of ice huts, many with vehicles parked by them. Then as you head out further onto the lake there will be groups of huts around popular fishing spots and deeper holes. 3 ....just one of those winter photos. A guy that builds Snowfers invited a couple of Russian girlfriends to come out and pose for promo shots. I was just trying to take a photo of the flag and they got in the way. Was that lake Gairdner John? I followed many early days of buggying posts and there were photos from expeditions there and vehicles sinking in. The dry lakes in Nevada and California are very hard unless there is rain and then they are a slick mess and you have to get off before you'll get stuck without having any tracking on the grease and starting to dig in and gouge up the surface SoutherlyBuster, nigel, igeighty and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhn.holgate Posted February 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 7 minutes ago, Mark Groshens said: Was that lake Gairdner John? No, it was a trip with my 'then' girlfriend (now 'wife') up the Strezlecki track and back via Cameron's coners and Tibboburra. Somewhere around here if I recall correctly (was probably 30 years ago so my accuracy could be a little off) Google Map Link well before I had seen a kite buggy. I saw the dry salt lake and said 'hey, let's take a shortcut!' Had I got stuck, I would have been waiting a l o n g time for help. 9 minutes ago, Mark Groshens said: I was just trying to take a photo of the flag and they got in the way. LOL! Yeah, obviously... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Groshens Posted February 14, 2016 Report Share Posted February 14, 2016 it was a very cold day today - got out with the ice buggy for a few hours, it was a finger numbing experience but a blast and I was all alone on the lake, even the fisherman didn't want to be out in the open with that wind. But a cold day like this gives excellent opportunity to toss hot water in the air to see what happens Goz and jhn.holgate 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhn.holgate Posted February 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2016 Unreal! What sort of temperatures are we talking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Groshens Posted February 14, 2016 Report Share Posted February 14, 2016 at the time I did this around noon it was -26 C with a wind chill of -32 C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windstruck Posted February 14, 2016 Report Share Posted February 14, 2016 Holy schnikies! Great little video Mark. What happens when you throw cold water? Must say I'm quite glad I can't repeat that experiment this week out West. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Groshens Posted February 14, 2016 Report Share Posted February 14, 2016 the water is condensing fast because of the big temperature difference so a dramatic result. Cold water will also steam but not as dramatic if you don't have the big temperature difference. Yesterday Lake Ontario was steaming all over because it's open water even though it's cold water. That NW wind and biker cold was giving that steam off on the north side but as that steam is rising moisture it will then turn into lake effect snow and that's why Buffalo NY often get's a big dump because it sits close between lake Ontario and lake Erie and gets the lake effect snow with the cold N or NW wind over open water in the winter. Ice bugging yesterday i got a little frostbite burn on the tip of my nose and along the edge of my ski goggles where the exposed skin got the wind and cold burn. windstruck 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssayre Posted February 14, 2016 Report Share Posted February 14, 2016 @Mark Groshens, only guessing, but do you tend to stay warmer on skis versus ice buggy? I would guess skiing would be more physically demanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windstruck Posted February 14, 2016 Report Share Posted February 14, 2016 59 minutes ago, Mark Groshens said: the water is condensing fast because of the big temperature difference so a dramatic result. Cold water will also steam but not as dramatic if you don't have the big temperature difference. Yesterday Lake Ontario was steaming all over because it's open water even though it's cold water. That NW wind and biker cold was giving that steam off on the north side but as that steam is rising moisture it will then turn into lake effect snow and that's whey Buffalo NY often get's a big dump because it sits close between lake Ontario and lake Erie and gets the lake effect snow with the cold N or NW wind over open water in the winter. Ice bugging yesterday i got a little frostbite burn on the tip of my nose and along the edge of my ski goggles where the exposed skin got the wind and cold burn. Great explanation Mark - thanks. I know it was a typo, but you wrote "biker cold" that was actually pretty funny! 30 minutes ago, ssayre said: @Mark Groshens, only guessing, but do you tend to stay warmer on skis versus ice buggy? I would guess skiing would be more physically demanding. The thing about cold and physical activity is that it is usually possible to keep your core warm if you are cranking but exposed skin and fingers and toes still often take a hit. The skin is probably self evident, but physiologically, your body will sacrifice its extremities to save the core and its life-sustaining organs. You can be sweating and still get frost bite on fingertips for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Groshens Posted February 14, 2016 Report Share Posted February 14, 2016 i noticed lately there are a number of forums that I'm getting a lot more predictive words and i don't double check - it was supposed to be "bitter" cold but "biker" works too Kite skiing is much more body work and I dress lighter - if you are sweating and trapping the sweat and then if you stop for a while that will freeze up be a lot worse when you start up again. Buggying is just sitting there so I need to dress warm and things like gaiters really help bugging in cooler weather as well as winter just to keep the wind from shooting up your pant leg (trouser leg). Kite skiing you are keeping your hands out and up for longer periods and if you don't have good gloves and your fingers get numb it's not until you stop that you realize just how numb they are from loss of circulation as well and then within a minute of rest you'll get that extremely painful burning sensation as the blood flow returns. In a buggy I don't find that as much but i do find the tips of my toes in the boots do get a lot more cold affect. When it's icy the buggies relieve a lot of the pounding your knees can take on skis especially if you are skiing rougher ice. Yup in the cold weather I get home and take a good warm shower just to get that core back up, it takes a long time to get over that chill if your core has temp has dropped a little. The coldest experience I ever had was bugging a week in Nevada/California and one dry lake in death valley was 105 F (40 C) we flew back to canada and it was the warmest week in April ever and the next day flew up to Nunavut and flew from Ottawa airport that had an unreal 89 F (32 C) and up north to Iqaluit and it was -58 F (-50 C). We kite skied and snow buggies out on the ice pack while natives watched around us with rifles in case the "snow drifts" moved (polar bears). IMK, ssayre and lasrocas 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windstruck Posted February 14, 2016 Report Share Posted February 14, 2016 38 minutes ago, Mark Groshens said: ... it was -58 F (-50 C). We kite skied and snow buggies out on the ice pack while natives watched around us with rifles in case the "snow drifts" moved (polar bears). Now that's some wild shit right there. Damn son, that's flirtin with crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhn.holgate Posted March 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 Another ripper vid from Mark - getting really quick around the 3:20 mark. And then snapping the front fork bolt..... ssayre, windstruck, Chook and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mik333 Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 What a spectacular vid. What an advertising opportunity. If you were wearing Jordan shoes with the symbol on the sole.....sponsorship..... Still hard to comprehend all that ice and snow, here in sunny Australia. I have been watching an Icelandic drama series called Trapped. In blizzard conditions, people wander around outside, seemingly oblivious to the chill. Humans are adaptable critters. Michael. windstruck and Jimmy Cullen 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasrocas Posted May 21, 2016 Report Share Posted May 21, 2016 jesus , is it just an illusion of the ice , but that seemed to be some speed there. fantastic vid . i dont think i would have the bottle to do that. How thick is the ice ? jesus , is it just an illusion of the ice , but that seemed to be some speed there. fantastic vid . i dont think i would have the bottle to do that. How thick is the ice ? apologies for double post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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