New XK member - Kite buggyer in training.

[eyrewaves]

Hi all, just introducing myself. I have previously flown stunt kites - probably 30 years or more a go. Started and stayed with a Peter Powell “Durable Plastic” The World’s Original Stunt Kite. Bought it from Kellers Bike Shop, Brighton Road, Brighton S.A. Red kite with a blue plastic tube tail. Still have it and two spare parts rigs I bought from a garage sale for a couple of dollars – I couldn’t believe my luck! The missus didn’t understand my excitement. A great kite. Ah those were the days – Seacliff Beach and the pub across the esplanade. Then got into Windsurfing – Windsurfer One Design. A long board with two sails and two centre boards – still have that too. I don’t seem to get rid of too many toys. Now adventuring into Kite Buggying. I have bought a used Radbuggy. I know some of the reviews are not favourable on them but it’s a start and I won’t be free styling. Plus I’ve got the helmet and goggles. Now for a suitable kite and bar. Suggestions? Now I have the chance to enjoy the coast again and buggying will be my safest option – I hope. I have found this site informative and of great learning value. Thanks to all who contribute. Look forward to reading more info and experiences being shared. Cheers, Mark.

[gum-nuts]

Hi Mark,

Welcome to XK

If you are after a couple of kites to start buggying I would recommend a 3 and 5m fixed bridle on handles. Something stable with low lift HQ Beamer, ozone flow, or if you are after something new ozone octane or Beamer 5.

Get used to flying it static before you jump in the bug, so you get an idea of the power, the wind window, safety systems etc. and I would also recommend some kite killers.

Loads of info and vids on the www. And ask us lots of questions - nothing is stupid

And enjoy - it's addictive!

[gum-nuts]

There is a 2nd hand 5m octane for sale here...

http://www.extremekites.com.au/forums/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=18169&view=unread#unread just a thought for a low wind kite!

[andy666]

Welcome aboard mark.

The radsail buggy will be a great beginner buggy and buying second hand means that you can get a feel for the sport for not too many $$. But be warned, if you get serious about the sport it can become addictive and expensive

Gum nuts is spot on with his kite advice regarding size and style of kite. Although I wouldn't recommend the 2nd hand octane he linked to, as it is on a bar and at $300 it's a little over priced. I would recommend starting out on handles as it gives you more feel for the kite and better control.

John howl gate has a 3m Flow for sale $180. You would just have to pick up some lines and handles from a kite shop or ebay.

You can also pick up a new kite pretty cheap from briskites. The Beamer V and Zebra Z1 are both great beginner kites.

[gum-nuts]

Gum nuts is spot on with his kite advice regarding size and style of kite. Although I wouldn't recommend the 2nd hand octane he linked to, as it is on a bar and at $300 it's a little over priced. I would recommend starting out on handles as it gives you more feel for the kite and better control.

I didn't notice it was on a bar! handles are definitely the way to go - I started on a 5m flow, great stable kites.

[eyrewaves]

gum-nuts and andy666 thanks for your replies and welcome.

I have emailed John previously and now also about the 3m kite.

I have a set of Peter Lynn handles and a Peter Lynn 4 line bar that I bought in anticipation of finding the right kite.

I can get the line and then set up the kite with the handles as suggested and give it a run before sitting in the buggy.

I've also invested in some kite killers!

I also bought a harness but now realise its not suitable for buggying so I have listed that on XK sale forum.

I’ll look for a seat style to progress into eventually.

The radbuggy was a good buy with an extra seat.

I replaced all bearings with stainless steel ones- double sealed.

Some of the old ones were a bit crusty and stiff so that was a good thing to change them.

My location is Whyalla SA and the beaches are favourable when at low tides.

If you search Whyalla in Google images you will see some of the low tide beaches.

There are also some dry land areas nearby that will be worthy of a run.

Thanks again, Mark.

[Tiger37]

Hi Mark and welcome to both a great addictive sport and to EK. Having started years ago with flexifoil stackers on wrist straps, I moved on to LEI kites about 4 or 5 years ago learning to kite board but gave up a couple of years back as I live in Canberra and was not getting enough practice or fun! So I bought a second hand Peter Lyn F-Lyn buggy and as advised to you above by some of the old hands, I started with 4m fixed bridle Ozone Octane. I am now a de-power convert and as has been said - life can get expensive as you progress through different kites! All the best with your buggy and enjoy.

[DJ_Sylk]

Hi i think if you already have experience flying a stunt kite you might be better served starting with something that handles a bit better.

I have a 4m Ozone Octane, its a good beginners kite but it flies like a dog compared to a proper race kite.

If you can fly a stunt kite I don't see why you wouldn't go straight to a race kite like the PL Vapor or if that's a bit to twitchy try a PL Reactor.

I do agree with the size recommendations, 3 & 5m should be a good starting point.

If you want to use a bar then you will be looking for a depower foil, a 6m Ozone Frenzy would be a good starting point.

[jhn.holgate]

If you can fly a stunt kite I don't see why you wouldn't go straight to a race kite like the PL Vapor

I really can't agree with you on this one, DJ. That would be like stepping off an Ibosa e-bike and getting on a 500cc Two stroke Nor would I ever suggest that an Octane flies like a dog - they're an excellent kite. Sure, compared to a Vapor it's gonna feel way slower and less powerful but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

[SoutherlyBuster]

Have to agree with John here. It's one thing be competent with a small stunt kite (1m^2 or so), but a totally different ball game with a powerful 3+m^2 race kite. These race kites are deceptively powerful for their size. For your first traction kite to pull you along in a buggy should be a docile kite -- don't worry about it being a waste of money, it will be your high wind kite once you get more experience under your belt.

[eyrewaves]

Tige, DJ, John & SB, thanks all for your input. To ask forum members a question always generates good healthy responses.

From what I have read and also seen on various videos, there is a lot of variables that can effect the functionality and suitability of a kite - most of all experience.

Thats why those in training - like myself - are grateful for these forums and the willingness of others to submit and share their experiences and information.

Apart from the Peter Powell kite from 30 + years ago I have been using a 2mtr 2 line kite with bar and have a 3m 4 line kite with handles, but its a toy/fun kite not for buggying - I woudn't think so for $65.

So I'll give the 3m fun kite a run while making a decision/purchase of a kite suitable for the buggy.

So far i'm looking at a 3m Ozone flow that I'll probably run with handles - then maybe a bar.

Certainly am interested in a depowering kite & bar but I'll need more experience, confidence and money!

I won't be freestyling (not intentionally anyway) so a good kite (or 2 or 3 or....) that can give me ground speed across a range of wind speeds and not lift will be the preferred choice.

Plus as stated by SB my first "trainer" kite will serve me well for the years to come.

And now my son has become interested with buggying he'll need it too.

Just like when I introduced him to fishing I'll probably end up buying more to share the fun.

But that's what Dad's do right!?!

[Clive]

The 3m flow is a really good first up kite, my first was a flow.... Still got it.

First buggy, as long as its got 3 wheels that turn you should be ok, you can always upgrade later, plus buy more kites, then even more kites.... Welcome to the money pit of Buggying .

Seriously, it's great fun

[mik333]

Hi Mark,

The idea of stepping into a buggy with a race kite like a Vapor while still a beginner is not a good one. You may be better off with a lower aspect ratio kite as others have suggested. The sharp response and acceleration of a high aspect ratio kite is an adrenalin rush, but only if you have some experience. Catch up with any of the guys and you can static fly some different foils. Once you get the hang of it, there is nothing like a little bit of terror. Lol.

Michael

[Mick14]

Hi Mark

I got excited when I saw you were from SA...always good to have new buggiers to fly with. There haven't been many recently.

After a couple of successful kite festivals, the Adelaide Kite Flyers Association has been spending money on kites for club members to use. So far we have only bought large single-line display kites, but I am going to suggest that we get some power kites, so that new club members interested in buggying or land-boarding can give it a try before buying their own.

Anyway, stay in touch though the AKFA forum on this site and we may be able to send a loan kite your way, or meet up for a fly when you visit Adelaide.

[Slartibartfast]

I'm going to echo the sentiments above about starting with a beginner/intermediate fixed bridal. In my opinion the problem with jumping straight on to race kites is not so much the 'pop' or power but more the difficulty in keeping the damn thing flying.

My go to small kite is a 2m Crossfire (which would only be classified as an intermediate kite) and I've found it to be a really difficult kite to introduce people to fly with. To experienced kiters it seems like an neat and easy kite to fly, possibly a little zippy for an out and out beginner but you would expect most new flyers to pick it up relatively quickly, but this is not the case. The problem is that the kite just doesn't fly properly unless it has a reasonable amount of forward movement. If you can keep it moving it's a beautifully responsive kite but if it stalls there's actually a bit of a knack to getting it going again. It becomes second nature to an experienced foil flyer but for beginners it's utterly frustrating to fly and out right infuriating to watch

For this reason I usually try and get new kiters out on the 4m beamer even if it's a bit windy as handing them the crossfire just seems cruel.

Even though you are an experienced stunt kiter I would still recommend a beginner/intermediate kite that can be easily controlled in a stall. It really makes a big difference when you are learning, and when you first hop in the bug you'll be back to learning all over again.

...and have a 3m 4 line kite with handles, but its a toy/fun kite not for buggying - I woudn't think so for $65.

Is this the kind of kite you're talking about:

This was the first power kite I got when I started in the sport and needless to say it is nothing like a 'proper' kite. A lot of people bash the 'eBay' kites but I personally found it useful. If it is the same kite I found it basically constantly flew in a stall. I had to shorten the lead lines a lot in order to get the kite to fly forwards properly, and even then 'properly' is a bit of a stretch. I did however learn the basics of 4-line control and in many ways it was a lot easier to learn on this kite than a 'proper' kite precisely because of the way it flys in a stall.

[eyrewaves]

Clive, Mik333, Mick14 and Slartibartfast thanks for your replies.

Well I have gone with the Ozone Flow 3m - on its way to me soon.

I've got a set of Peter Lynn handles and a bar in waiting.

As discussed I'll start with the handles then go to the bar and see which is the better for me.

As it seems to be an individual preference thing with using either - also subject to the kite type as well.

I do like the look of a depowering kite and bar.

I have read about the need for forward movement with some kites to avoid lulls so I have intentionally steered clear of them for now.

At this stage of my inexperience in buggying I will concentrate on the kite performance before risking the rush of an OBE!

Mick14 - I intend to keep up with the forum and be an active forum member when I can.

So after this subject I won't be far away and I'll keep an eye on the AKFA.

Slarti - you are right on the money with the 4 line ebay kite.

Its the puchase of that kite that inspired the interest in kite buggying.

Searched on the internet for power kites & sport kites, found land kiting, kite buggying - that's for me I thought!

As you say the ebay kite may be regarded as cheap and nasty but look what it has developed into - more money spent - haha.

So I think that's good for the sport and maybe not the wallet.

With your "shortening of the lines" comment I have read that the rear lines benefit from an extra 1.5 metres of line.

Bring on the new kite I say!

Thanks All.

[Mick14]

Bring on SOME WIND! I say.

[Slartibartfast]

With your "shortening of the lines" comment I have read that the rear lines benefit from an extra 1.5 metres of line.

Wow, that is seriously out of trim

I knew a lot had to be taken out (or added depending on how you look at it) but 1.5m. That is ridiculous!!!

If you haven't come across it already 'Coastal Wind Sports' have a few very good tutorials:

http://www.coastalwindsports.com/TutorialMenu.Html

There one on "Better Buggy Basics" tutorial is particularly good:

http://www.coastalwindsports.com/BetterBuggyBasics.html

And if you're wanting to improve your bugging I'd strongly recommend making the trek to Kingston S.E. in January. Not only will you be able to immerse yourself in the bugging culture for several days but there are usually a couple of tandem buggy set ups around which work as a fantastic training aid. With a tandem buggy you can pilot the buggy from the front and have an expert coach just behind offering incite on how best to fly. Like sailing there are a lot of nuances to bugging and you really can gain a lot from expert tuition. I've known a number new kiters who gained a lot from such sessions, myself included

Also the guys at Kingston really are a first rate crew and are always more than happy to help out a new fellow kiter.

Best of luck with it all,

Slarti.

[eyrewaves]

Slarti - great suggestion!

I can certainly recommend that website and info too.

During my research about buggying I happened to find the site and WOW!

Impressive and very helpful.

That is not to under value this forum and website.

The wealth of information and assistance here is outstanding.

I am more than grateful for the opportunity to use this forum and for the obliging and supportive info from the members.

I have always said the future in any sport is in the way its members greet newcomers and share their wealth of info and experience.

It is very welcoming.

Cheers, Mark.

p.s. A different request: Does XK have merchandise available?

[jhn.holgate]

p.s. A different request: Does XK have merchandise available?

There was a little at one stage, but this site is in the process of changing over to Wind Cube so I can't imagine there's been any new XK stuff made over the last few years. I can send you a photo of a big sticker on the inside of my ute if you like......

ps: Flow's on it's way thanks Mark.

[eyrewaves]

Slarti I found the instruction sheet.

It mentions 1.25 metres difference for the line length : as below........

ASSEMBLY INSTRUCTIONS

 

Setting up and flying the kite

When setting up as a four line kite, attach the top bridle to the top end of your

handle and the bottom bridle to the bottom end of your handle.

Length of the flying line for the top line should be  shorter than the bottom line for 1.25

meter for better flying.

You may need someone to help you when launching the kite.

Always fly the kite between the wind grading from 4 to 6 (approximately 13 – 27

knots per hour).

Warning

Never fly near overhead power lines or in thunderstorms.

Never fly near airfields, road, animals or other people.

This kite is a powerful traction and therefore not suitable for inexperienced flyers

and not for children.

John - great news. Thanks.

[eyrewaves]

Slarti I found the instruction sheet.

It mentions 1.25 metres difference for the line length : as below........

ASSEMBLY INSTRUCTIONS

 

Setting up and flying the kite

When setting up as a four line kite, attach the top bridle to the top end of your

handle and the bottom bridle to the bottom end of your handle.

Length of the flying line for the top line should be  shorter than the bottom line for 1.25

meter for better flying.

You may need someone to help you when launching the kite.

Always fly the kite between the wind grading from 4 to 6 (approximately 13 – 27

knots per hour).

Warning

Never fly near overhead power lines or in thunderstorms.

Never fly near airfields, road, animals or other people.

This kite is a powerful traction and therefore not suitable for inexperienced flyers

and not for children.

John - great news. Thanks.

[eyrewaves]

Got an hour to spare last friday - in between things on the "To do list".

Took a Slingshot B2 - two line trainer and an Ozone 2.5 Imp - three line trainer out.

Flew the B2 first in light winds which eventually picked up.

Super responsive kite.

Then flew the Imp.

Not as responsive as the B2 but has some power behind it!

I like the 3rd line reverse launch capability.

Both on control bars.

The kites created some interest with and questions from other beach goers.

One comment was "I thought kites were those diamond shaped things".

Good workout for the shoulders pre season!

[Goz]

That's it you're doomed now that you have had a taste

Soon you will want another kite, and then another, etc.