Taking up landboarding

[Wpiter]

Hi guys, first time poster here!

A couple of weeks ago I was introduced to the wonderful world of kites. I started with several lessons of kite surfing, although this was a heap of fun I don't see myself doing this on a regular basis. I realized that land boarding would be more for me (with later possibly snow kiting on skis...)

I have limited experience windsurfing and a fair bit of experience skiing, I'm also keen on cycling. Anyway, just to get your guys thoughts on the kite set that i want to get: Flexifoil rage (4.7M, with handles) and a flexifoil hunter (landboard). Would this combination work, would you recommend a different kite, different board or something completely different. I'm 84 Kg and 1.8 meters tall.

I've had a bit of a look around in this forum and it looks like a wonderful community, keep up the good work!

[SoutherlyBuster]

Welcome to the EK.

The Hunter board only has skate trucks and this will limit you in speed as the speed wobbles set in (potentially uncontrollable wobbles of the board). I would be more inclined to go for Matrix trucks. All the other major brands offer them. I started out on a Flexifoil board with skate trucks and swapped over to an MBS Comp95 (with Matrix Trucks) -- big difference in stability which equates to more enjoyable ride. Getting spare parts for the MBS is also much easier as the Flexifoils tend to use non-standard sizes.

Some people prefer the skate trucks because they are lighter, this is for the freestyle riders that don't go that fast where speed wobbles are not a problem.

I use my landboard for both kiting and non-kiting downhill runs.

As for kite size odds are you will want a smaller kite for the higher wind days, just take it easy at first, better to be underpowered at first.

Make sure to get the safety gear: helmet (a must), plus knee pads. If going for down hill runs, get some leather riggers gloves.

The fixed briddle kites are cheaper (no depower bar) but you will find the depower kites (with bar) easier to use as flying one handed is so much easier. Still a fixed briddle kite is not bad for starting out.

Regards,

Norman.

[Wpiter]

I'm also considering a 7.5m apex III, any thoughts on this?

[SoutherlyBuster]

I have not flown the Apex but being a depower and more for the beginners that would be a good choice to start out with.

Perhaps some other kiters who have/had this may pop up and have some thing to say.

Give Briskites and ring and ask for Jason, he can tell you more about the kite.

The Apex is marketed as a stable kite, just what you need when starting out.

Regards,

Norman.

[Goz]

I think the apex would be just the thing for you starting out into landboarding, good wind range and a nice stable flyer.

I flew the first version of the Apex in 7.5m in a buggy and it's a great kite for the money.

[jolli]

Hi there,

The Apex is a great way to start but if like me you really get into the Land boarding you will grow out of it very quickly. I would likely go for

a Montana or an Ozone Frenzy.

One thing i have noticed Land boarding is that you need to have a slightly more powered up kite than in a buggy to get the same enjoyment out of it.

I would not go for a 7.5 m kite too small expect in a massive wind, i would look at 9 m + to get you out in a reasonable wind.

anything less than that and you cannot edge / lean enough to enjoy the board. Oh this also depends on your weight as well, but for me being over 80 Kg's i tend to be nicely powered and in control on a 9.5 or even a 13 m kite.

On the subject of boards, i ended up with a second hand not sure what the name is board in good condition and quite frankly love it, it has skate trucks and works well for my needs (ATM going up and down the park as quick a i possibly can) One thing to be aware of with the skate trucks is the state of all the rubber bushes if they are worn and in generally bad health they will need to be replaced, most skate shops can help there i'm told. if you are like me and wants sure if Land Boarding was for me second hand is the way to go. relatively cheap to start off with for beginners.

Finally one thing that hasn't been covered is the harness, i my case i have tried both waist and seat and found the seat harness to be the most supportive and easy to get used too. Food for thought.

If you are ever down at Elwood come down and i'll give you a go on some of my kites.

JOLLI

[SoutherlyBuster]

Jolli does have a valid point on the kite size. The smaller kites are great fun for the higher winds but not for the beginners in high winds. With the smaller kites you don't lean as much so you have to be more careful to not fall off (ie getting pulled over the board or falling off the back).

The bigger kites on the lighter steady wind days are a good start, nice and stable and you can lean plenty back on them. Leaning back on the board (with a kite) does improve stability.

Eventually you will want a quiver of kites, so even if you start out with a smaller one, it will still come in handy for the higher wind days.

The Ozone Frenzies are a great kite, never flown one, but I have seen new comers to landboards improve at a rapid pace when they switched to them (Bakers Dozen can vouch for that).

Regards,

Norman.

[bob2]

Hi there

Landboarding is great fun so I'm sure you will love it. Some of the best moments are just getting underway with the wind powering you along. It is such a feeling of freedom and also the pleasure of acomplishing a bit of mastery of all the raw components and bringing it together.

I still love just crusing up and down my local oval.

In terms of starting out, the advice you have so far is spot on. I would say, start small first with a fixed briddle. I started out with a 3.5m ozone imp trainer. It's not much good for going fast or even getting going unless there is a good gail blowing, but it enables a good understanding of handling a kite without suffering serious mishaps when you make a mistake. I still use my 3.5m all the time for cruising with a skate board so it has been great value and great fun.

Also, use a bar, as the fun stuff happens with the depower kites and handles are just confusing.

Once you have the basics of kite handling down and the confidence levels are high, then move up to the depower stuff. This is were the fun really happens. These kites make learning new tricks easy and are generally forgiving in a wider range of wind conditions.

Depending on the winds in your location, a 9m or bigger will give you more fun and enjoyment. A 7.5m would only come into its own in very strong winds and would likely require you to work it like crazy instead of parking it and enjoying the ride.

Landboarding requires a lot more wind then buggies which seem to go when a bee farts in some distant land.

Hope it helps.

Bob

Just my two bits worth.

[Wpiter]

Right, thanks guys for all the response. A bit confusing, but I think I've got it figured out.

I guess I will stick to a 4 line bridle, I'll try out the rage 4.7 some time soon at a local shop with both handles and bar, see what I prefer. I'll let you know how I go and when I manage to break my arm or something...

That got me thinking actually, considering I ride a motorbike, could simply wear my motorbike gear when kiteboarding, protection overload...

[bakersdozen]

Howdy Wpiter,

I would strongly recommend just getting a second hand 4 line fixed bridle kite to learn how to kite on the land. Once you get the hang on flying it (static - just standing up), then you start on the board. Once you have those basic skills up, it's' time to move over to depowers on the bar.

Before you go onto buying your first depower, any of us would be happy for you to try one out - that way, you can try before your buy and shoot all your money on the wrong kite.

The way I learnt, and the best way i rekon...would be to rock down to wherever the lads in Melbourne are flying and fly, look and learn (and ask a heap of questions ). Keep an eye on the Victorian section and head down. viewforum.php?f=34

Motorcycle gear will be fine, although a little heavy. I started out using a DryRider motorcycle jacket when i was learning to landboard. A helmet and knee pads as well (obviously).

Cheers!

Mark

[Wpiter]

Okay, where do I buy a second hand kite? I had a look in the buy/sell section on the forum but can't find any suitable ones for me.

Any suggestions? (...I feel like such a noob...)

[bakersdozen]

Keep checking on here, gumtree and eBay. They come up fairly regularly. You could also put up a post stating that your looking where abouts in Melbs do you live?

[Wpiter]

Eastern suburbs, notting hill to be precise.

[crazy]

wpiter, i have just recently started landboarding myself, at this stage i have both a 3.4 sting and 6.5 Method and running a comp95 board.

I have only been boarding so far in about 12 knots on the 6.5 (i was topping outt about 18km/h) and couldn't really lean back against the kite (mind you i am a heavy bastard )

i will have to come down to melbourne and try out the beaches down there!

[andy666]

That got me thinking actually, considering I ride a motorbike, could simply wear my motorbike gear when kiteboarding, protection overload...

The upper body protection would be fine, but the motorcycle helmet would be way to heavy. you will be looking up and moving your head around a lot, so it will kill your neck. Look for a skate or BMX helmet. Or a mountain bike helmet if you want a full face. They will be a lot lighter and still provide all the protection you will need.

[SoutherlyBuster]

Protec make helmets suitable for landboarding. They have the purely land ones (better ventilation) and also the water ones (hotter in the summer when used for land). My son has both. I just use the one water Protec Wake Ace for both water and land action.

12 knots is on the light wind side. Though when I ride with my 12m^2 depower I can lean back against the kite in 12 knots.

If you're not leaning back, just need to be ready when a gust kicks in that you don't get pulled over the board, ie let the bar out or steer down wind or squat down/jump up and forward to release the tension.

Regards,

Norman.

[lostdaplot]

Howdy Wpiter,

I would strongly recommend just getting a second hand 4 line fixed bridle kite to learn how to kite on the land. Once you get the hang on flying it (static - just standing up), then you start on the board. Once you have those basic skills up, it's' time to move over to depowers on the bar.

Before you go onto buying your first depower, any of us would be happy for you to try one out - that way, you can try before your buy and shoot all your money on the wrong kite.

The way I learnt, and the best way i rekon...would be to rock down to wherever the lads in Melbourne are flying and fly, look and learn (and ask a heap of questions ). Keep an eye on the Victorian section and head down. viewforum.php?f=34

Motorcycle gear will be fine, although a little heavy. I started out using a DryRider motorcycle jacket when i was learning to landboard. A helmet and knee pads as well (obviously).

Cheers!

Mark

I think this is spot-on advice, and is the path I am currently learning on: static FB, dynamic FB, and then....onwards and upwards

[bakersdozen]

Good on ya @lostdaplot

[Northern Kites Australia]

I am risking being flamed here for saying this, but I really think some need to broaden their view on kites a little.

I suggest you learn land kiting on a leading edge (LEI) 4 line kite (and there are plenty around for under $500). For example, Cabrinha Switchblade, North, Slingshot, etc etc... heaps and heaps around.

Before you all splat me, allow me to explain:

* LEI kites are way easier to manage in terms of lines, tangles and connection points

* LEI kites are easier to manoeuver.

* LEI kites are faster to set up and hence more (much more) time for you to get going, especially if land kiting during your lunch break (like myself); and,

* LEI kites are cheap as (as per above).

I started out on a FB kite (Ozone Octane 4mt) and to be honest it was frustrating to say the least, for a beginner. Now, I would be fine with one and be pulled along easily, but if you're in a grass area that doesn't have much room, you want a quick tack up and down the park and perhaps the grass is a little too long, a fixed bridle kite is not a good idea. They are just too much of a fiddle.

Pump up a leading edge inflatable, hook on and away you go! The only downside of course if having to pump a bladder. But meh. It's a small price for time gains IMO.

Now, I prefer foils. I have a Montana HQ and I love her. I would not land kite without her, but sometimes the winds are funky and a LEI kite is sometimes easier to manage and just get you going without the hassles.

Of course self landing and launching, that's another story and I would only recommend the above (LEI) if you have someone close by to help you land and launch the kite.

[andy666]

* LEI kites are way easier to manage in terms of lines, tangles and connection points

debatable. Someone learning on their own will not understand the multiple attachment points on a LEI, where as a FB the lines are usually already attached and remain attached.

* LEI kites are easier to manoeuver.

A 5m FB will turn nearly as fast as a 10m LEI. And for a learner a kite that turns too fast can be a hand full, as the kite can end up in the wrong spot very quickly.

* LEI kites are faster to set up and hence more (much more) time for you to get going, especially if land kiting during your lunch break (like myself); and,

???? In what world is a LEI faster to set up then a FB. You need to pump up bladder, unwind and connect lines, then launch.

A FB (or even a depower foil) you just need to unwind the lines and launch

* LEI kites are cheap as (as per above).

yes 2nd hand LEI are cheap, but so are 2nd hand FB kites. Also foil kites generally last longer then LEI and don't have bladders that get holes in them.

Yes LEI kites have their benefits and can be used as a first kite, but they are not the kite I would recommend for learning to landboard.

[Northern Kites Australia]

debatable. Someone learning on their own will not understand the multiple attachment points on a LEI, where as a FB the lines are usually already attached and remain attached.

Most people that bought a LEI kite have had lessons and are more than capable of connecting them without thinking. With foils, you need to think a little and I bet even for you, a foil kite still needs to have the bridles shaken loose and the overall lines untwisted before you can self launch. Not with LEI. Just unwind lines and connect.

A 5m FB will turn nearly as fast as a 10m LEI. And for a learner a kite that turns too fast can be a hand full, as the kite can end up in the wrong spot very quickly.

True, but when the winds suddenly die off or there are lulls, what's going to happen? The foil kite starts to collapse and you have to manouver it into the power zone more to have it re-inflate. But then again, maybe the newer foils don't have that problem. I've only flown a Psy3 flysurfer but that's a 2008 model and yeah it was a pain having the kite bow-tie and having to self land, unhook, untie the kite and re-launch. I've never had to do that with a LEI kite.

???? In what world is a LEI faster to set up then a FB. You need to pump up bladder, unwind and connect lines, then launch. A FB (or even a depower foil) you just need to unwind the lines and launch

I bet I could do that quicker than you could unwind your lines and launch. The pumping is the only thing that would take the longest. But then again, some kites only require 10 pumps and away you go.

yes 2nd hand LEI are cheap, but so are 2nd hand FB kites. Also foil kites generally last longer then LEI and don't have bladders that get holes in them.

Hmmmm. I have not found a Flysurfer or a PL kite (good ones by comparison with age and market trending LEI kites), for under $1000 including lines, bag, etc.

Yes LEI kites have their benefits and can be used as a first kite, but they are not the kite I would recommend for learning to landboard.

I concur. For a beginner I would recommend they use their LEI until they get confortable with riding on land and have more focus on the control of the board, environment and space rather than been focused on the kite. For a beginner to start on foils especially a FB kite with handles (heaven forbid!), they will struggle. I gaurantee it. Once a beginner can mow the lawn, do some jumps and have excellent kite control, then I would recommend foils because of the relative ease of unpacking, unrolling, and hooking up. Never the less, even at that point a LEI kite will still provide endless hours of fun without having to think about the kite too much.

[Pari]

I haven't read through the whole thread, just the first few entries so forgive me if I'm repeating stuff or its already been covered.

I think skate trucks are really OK. The speed wobble thing I never found an issue. When you get better at land boarding and start to go faster, you tend to trust the kites pull more and more. This is when you start to lean right back and edge hard. This stabling effect on you board and trucks.

A 7.5m Depower kite is too small. I think someone mentioned a 9m Frenzy would be good. I agree. But even a 9m you will need probably 18 plus knots for it to be powered enough to have any fun. But certainly you'll learn on it fine but will grow out of it quick. When you do, get a performance kite like a 12 m Flysurfer and start jumping. I'm getting away with myself now.

Also, and this is just my opinion, go 'Grannies'. As they say, "once you go grannies you don't go back".

[SoutherlyBuster]

Not all foils are alike. For instance my Peter Lynn Arcs provided conditions are not horrible, are pure simplicity, just four lines to worry about and no bridles. Compare the FlySurfers, lots of bridles, so a bit harder to set up, but the rewards are much greater -- in horrible conditions bow ties don't happen versus the arcs.

Lofty, perhaps your findings are a bit tainted due to the older designs of the FS Psycho your were flying, the newer Psycho IV does not have any problems with bow ties. In know with my son's FS Speed 1.5 the steering is not the best and is like miles behind the turning capability and overall performance of the Speed III and Speed IV's.

Kites falling out of the sky in low winds, well the foils will stay up in the air much longer than the LEI's, see this first hand at my local all the time. Mind you light winds are amongst the most challenging to fly in.

Still reckon one of the mid sized Depowers is a good start, you can lean back more on the kite to keep your ride stable, compared to the little wippets where you have to concentrate more on your balance. I started on Venom II 13m^2.

Regards,

Norman.

[bakersdozen]

Yes LEI kites have their benefits and can be used as a first kite, but they are not the kite I would recommend for learning to landboard.

seconded

[Mick14]

My Flexifoil landboard comes with a leash, but I can't think of any situation where I would want to be leashed to the board? ???