robmueck

There was quite a lot of interest in an inaugral national gathering of land traction kiters at Lake George for Sept 9,10 & maybe 11. These dates were chosen so that those travelling from afar to go to the festival of wind at Bondi could include Lake George in their itinerary. The Lake didn't co-operate. So now that gathering is scheduled for November. Newcastle has been chosen as the venue for those that just can't wait till November. It kicks off at the car park at the southern end of south Stockton beach at 9am on Friday 9th September. I have provided my mobile no. 0419160361, as the contact point for where the gathering progresses to from there. It is scheduled as a two day event. If the winds aren't in Newcastle on Sunday I will head back to Sydney and maybe take in the festival of winds. If the wind is in Newcastle on Sunday I am not going anywhere. Lets use this thread to prepare for the gathering. From the Lake George Thread it seems that there will be 1 other from Sydney and 1-3 from Canberra. They all doubt they can get there for a 9am start, but htey'll try.

I will be staying with family. I intend to be there Friday, Saturday and if the onditions are good Sunday. There is a caravan Park right on the beach at South Stockton. This time of year there is likely to be plenty of room. The caravan park is in a great spot. I think it is time to seperate the two events. Newcastle was the back up site for the postponed Lake George gathering. Now both are definetly going ahead. I'll start a new thread for the Newcaslte gathering.

I am going to be at Long Reef every full moon night over the next little while. Its good for any wind direction as long as it is at least a moderate breeze. If there is cloud it will be too dark. Nov 15's forecast is for a southerly to come through. I think that will mean too much cloud and not enough light. I am working till 9pm during the week. I'll turn up on Tuesday and Wednesday night about 9.15pm and fly if there is enough light. Due to daylight saving I've moved the start time to 9pm. Meet at the lookout at the top of the headland at 9pm. The full moon dates for the next few months are: Oct 17 Nov 16 Dec 15

I advertised a regular gathering on each full moon at Long Reef. Tonight is the full moon. I believe there may be somone coming who is bringing their ATB as well as their buggy. When I advertised the gathering I had in mind buggying. We are meeting at 8pm at the lookout on the top of the the headland. There may not be an opportunity to kiteboard but you are welcome.

You came up with more than I thought about. I wanted to ask about spreading the word because I wasn't sure how comfortable you felt about a larger gathering. I like the idea about flyers left at retailers. I'll approach the retailers here in Sydney.

What are your thoughts on spreading the word about the gathering beyond this forum. I mentioned the gathering to one of the sydney kite shop proprietors who knew nothing about it though they were interested in coming until they found out it was on the same weekend as the festival of the winds. Now that the Lake George gathering is happening at a different time it may be possible for them to attend. Us internet users may forget that there may be enthusiasts who do not have the facility or don't use this forum.

I don't think that we need numbers of participants to maintain a notional four tiered structure. Sure it would be great if the number of participants came about so that the notional structure became actual gatherings. If the numbers aren't there it doesn't mean that the concept can't be kept to hang suitable gatherings on in the future. It may be that at the moment there are just local gatherings and then a national one. So sparky, you have got us all off to a start by putting your hand up for being the organiser of the inaugrual Lake George annual national gathering of land based traction kiting. Terrific. As the organiser sparky can make it as formal/informal as he likes it. I note that the gathering is scheduled for November and is also suggested for the third weekend in February. Can I suggest that one is a national gathering, the other be a NSW/ACT gathering and the weekends in January be local gatherings. The reason for this, a tiered structure, is that it provides a focus and an opportunity. I am sure that anyone is going to be welcome to any of the events. If you nominate which is the national event then you will provide a focus for the effort of those people who will have to come from afar. If someone has only the resources to travel to Lake George once a year then they should save it for the national gatheing (which hopefully is timed for the best season). If you nominate an event as a state event you are saying that, look this isn't the gathering of the year but for those of you who are enthusiastic enough to make the trip more than once a year, come and join us. The local and regional gatherings can be more frequent gatherings where you are going because you want to have fun and its easy. Without a tiered structure to indicate what the intent is, there is a risk that the attendance and enthusiasm will be dissipated over several unco-ordinated events, none which is the gathering it could of been.

Having a forum for gatherings will work well when coupled with the locations tool on this site. I can see a lot more postings to the locations facility that Gav has on this site and they will most likely become more detailed. A note could be placed in the notes section of the location record to advertise any regular gathering that is held there. This would save having to trawl through the forum looking for a local gathering, especially if you were not familiar with the place names.

Good on you gav. Having someone with the IT prowess that you have serves us well.

Great! Don't get hung up on the time. I was giving myself the whole day on Friday so that if the wind was not ideal I could use the time to sus out suitable buggy alternatives. I grew up in Newcastle and I was thinking that there may be somewhere on Kooragang Island, somewhere on the western side of the dunes, or Tomago, or out the back of Raymond terrace or .....

Maybe the idea of structure can be separated from rules. There seem to be enough race formats and formal tricks that can be borrowed to suit any gathering that has enough interested participants to compete. I have posted a thread in this forum about a structure for gatherings. I suggest that buggiers just get together first. I like the idea of having a debrief at the end of a gathering where various awards/places/citations/warnings and encouragements are handed out. If someone wanted to develop one aspect of their buggying, be it speed, freestyle, racing, etc. their effort during the gathering can be acknowledged by the group. They may take this feedback with them and possibly to a higher, more formal and rule conscious gathering. Having a debrief at the end of the gathering can acknowledge everyone?s achievements in a positive way. Someone may get a warning for having the most OBEs, someone may get the chiropractors encouragement award for having the heaviest landings from jumps, someone may get the retailer of the meet award for having the latest and greatest toys, someone else get a fifth dan in two wheeling etc etc. If there is competition then whatever the achievement was can be acknowledged by the gathering. I would prefer to see the gatherings as a forum for encouragement for all the participants. I would like to see any competition in that vein.

I have been following this forum for a little while now and was disappointed that the gathering at Lake George was postponed (due to water on the lake). I note that the thread on competition formats and the fun, excitement and injury that the Sandy Point gathering generated. I have been enjoying kitebuggying for five years now yet have never seen anyone else use a kite buggy other than videos on the net. I have a suggestion to make that ties a few of the forum threads together. I would welcome any response. A conceptual structure: A hierarchy of regular local, regional, state and national (and international) gatherings. A conceptual structure may seed the initiative for more gatherings. A gathering can be as formal or informal as those local participants want it to be. With an awareness that there will be a regular gathering of the next level of the hierarchy, gathering participants would have an optional focus (other than just relaxing and having fun) for their skill/equipment development. The smaller the local area that the participants come from the less effort is required to get to the gathering and the more likely it is that a local participant would turn up. It wouldn?t matter if there was no other participant at the scheduled ?gathering?, you had not come far, you?ve gone to your local buggy spot as you would have anyway and if the conditions were ok you had fun. Regular, scheduled gatherings would provide more impetus to find suitable alternative venues. If we just wait for the conditions to be right at our favourite spot we might never know about another spot that could have been providing lots of fun at other times. Regular gatherings would probably attract more newcomers and enquiries. Regular gatherings would stabilise important aspects of this pursuit. Contacts and information about where to get gear, insurance, repairs, learning etc, would be easier to come by. A regular gathering would also provide encouragement for those that may be struggling with the pursuit. Maybe they have had a bad experience and without the fellowship and shared problem solving would probably give up. A structure may provide a more favourable interface for the traction kite industry. While we can not expect anything for nothing, regular meets are more likely to attract support from those wanting to sell their wares than one off gatherings that are an unknown potential market. As a suggestion I propose local gatherings are held/suggested by anybody. The venue and frequency can be of their choosing, to suit their commitment. Regional gatherings then can be held monthly or quarterly, state gatherings can be held twice a year and an annual national gathering. I note that AKFA has regular gatherings and that they had shown interest in the Lake George gathering. This forum seems well suited to advocate and develop land traction kiting in Australia. Although less utilised, the Kite ? Buggy Australia site seems set up for advertising state/ regional even local regular gatherings. What would hold this conceptual structure together is a posting of the gatherings and someone or some committee to maintain it. As a web posting anybody could organise a local gathering, someone known to be reliable could take responsibility for organising a regular regional or state gathering, and a volunteer co-ordination committee could take responsibility for the annual national gathering. As a start I am proposing a buggying evening starting at 8pm at Long Reef on the night of each full moon. Meet at the lookout at the top of the headland. The full moon this month is the 18th, tomorrow. I have also committed myself to being at Newcastle for 9th & 10th of September as the alternative venue for the postponed Lake George gathering.

I like the idea of a gathering at Newcastle on September 9/10 as the alternative venue for Lake George. Some may then wish to go to the Bondi Festival of Wind on the 11th. I would still like someone to say they have an inland venue good for winds from any direction, but until then Stockton Bight area is a good chance for buggying in any wind direction. As it is a more Northerly venue it may be less appealing for those based in the south. It would suit those in the Newcastle locality and the NSW lower North Coast region. I will bite the bullet and say that I will attend unless a more suitable venue is proposed. As nobody has said where to meet I am going to suggest the park at Stockton. From memory it is harbour/river frontage. I am coming from Sydney and I intend to be there 9am. Depending on what the wind is doing we can go on from there. I will take up the responsibility for the changing venue until someone else does. If you are loking for me/us on either Friday or Saturday then give me a call on 0419160361.

Sounds interesting. I know very little about carbon fibre other than my experience with it as tubing in kites. Which I have broken. Into shards. 1mm thin! Who is going to want to dig out splinters in that part of your anatomy. Other than this initial misgiving, its has to be better than just the webbing seat which I have now. I appreciate the offer and look forward to the pictures and the testing (non destructive I hope). I am ignorant. I know very little about manufacturing or chemistry. I only thought of the plastic that they use for bumpers on cars and for wheeled rubbish bins as it seems to be quite puncture proof and durable. Have fun, be safe and let me know how it goes.

If anyone has the wherewithall to make buggy bashplates I would buy two. I like the idea of hard plastic. I've seen a product for flexifoil buggys on a UK website. Out of stock and I don't know if they would suit my PL buggies. I am going to try the two litre bottle idea for mudgaurds but if someone was going to start fabricating plastic bits for buggies could they also make some some mudgaurds please.

With regard to suspension: About four years ago I bought a pair of rocker arms for my PL buggies. They work a treat in the rough. Going over kerbs or down steps is a breeze. While my front feet have to deal with the bumps, my body and my poor back travels quite smoothly. For those of you who have not seen them, a description: The same concept as the rear suspension of a truck just without the springs and axles. Instead of bolting the wheel into the end of the rear axle of the buggy, the hub of a ?rocker arm? is bolted into the same spot. The rocker arm then becomes perpendicular to the axle. The rocker arm can spin on the end of the axle. The hub is made of a larger sized tube than the axle enabling it to slip over the buggy axle. The hub is long enough (130mm) so that it maintains the same alignment as the axle. The open end of the hub has a nylon bush/bearing which provides a snug fit over the axle, and enables the hub and axle to move independently of each other. The other end of the hub has been closed with thick plate (about 10mm) through which a bolt hole has been machined. The attaching bolt, which is the same thread and diameter as used for the wheels, has a stainless bush/sleeve. The o/d of the sleeve is the same as the diameter of the bolt hole in the closed end of the hub. and therefore acts like a bearing for this side of the hub. This diameter is less than the size of the hex head on the bolt. So the head of the bolt still retains the hub on the axle. When the bolt is tightened it pinches on the sleeve/bush, not on the hub, because the sleeve/bush is slightly longer than the thickness of the plate used to close the end of the hub. This then provides suspension without body roll for kite buggies. The draw back is that for beginners in very light conditions the buggy is heavier and has a very slight turning resistance for sharp turns on hard surfaces. An advantage is that it provides very good resistance to side ways drift because the two wheels on the outside provide improved counterweight and the traction on the inside becomes more stable. I think the build quality is terrific, if anything, over engineered. There a standard PL product and Kite Power have them in stock for $139. Steve calls it a five wheel kit. Oh and the price doesn't include the extra two wheels that would be needed.

My memory of this thread was that it was suggested as an inaugural national gathering, albeit an informal one. I?ve got quite excited for the following reasons:  I have been buggying a few years and have never seen anyone else buggying.  I discovered this forum the same time as I found the British forum and their thread on the land speed record. I thought Lake George with the right wind could yield some interesting results.  My son has finally shown some interest and we are looking forward to going to the gathering together.  My cousin is coming up from Vic for the gathering and I am looking forward to that. If Lake George is wet on the day, ? well that will put a dampener on the venue, it needn?t take the wind out of our sails. If we had a reserve venue then we will secure what I think will be a very useful gathering. It needn?t be as spacious as Lake George although if we choose somewhere too narrow we may make the gathering dependent on wind direction. (The gathering at Sandy Point is finding this out.) It needn?t be close to Lake George. Quite a few of us are prepared to travel a significant distance to get to Lake George, somewhere else isn?t going to matter. I don?t have any suggestions. My former neighbour has told me about his gliding club?s property. It has a central landing strip 2kms long with open ground all around. I have thought that that would be a decent buggying venue. I think he said it?s in Narrabri. This would shoot a weekend visit from my cousin down in flames. Anyway, I am not suggesting an alternative venue. Only a backup venue in case my constant prayers for dry, hard Lake George come to naught. Any suggestions for a backup venue?

Thanks for the responses about if the gathering was still on. I'm excited also. I'll be there with my son. I have also invited my cousin and his daughter from Victoria. By the way has anyone been keeping an eye on the british thread about the land speed record. There is an initiative over there to get a Guiness World Record for kite buggy land speed. This is the response they got back in June from Guinness World Records: There is not currently a record in this category, however you may wish to check with us again closer to submitting your full claim to be sure that a new record has not been set in the interim. A speed of 52 mph seems to be widely accepted within the kite community, so this will be regarded as our benchmark for any inaugural record. The following act as a guide to the specific considerations and undertakings, in addition to the general requirements, for any potential attempt on the Kite Buggy Speed Record record. They should be read and understood by all concerned - organisers, participants and witnesses ? prior to the event. Rules This record is for the highest speed reached by a manned vehicle towed by a kite (commonly known as kite buggies or parakarts). 1. There is no restriction on the size or design of the buggy, but its only form of propulsion should be a kite/s. 2. There is no restriction on the size, design or number of kites used to tow the buggy. 3. The speed must be measured using a radar gun, operated by someone who has been professionally trained in the use of this equipment, such as a police officer. A certificate confirming that the radar gun has been recently calibrated must be supplied. I have no idea how fast I go. I have never been timed. I know that I will often aqua plane more than 50metres but probably less than 100m over water at the beach. I know that I easily out run the fastest kite boarders under the same conditions. Scary fast. Some of the scary comes because there are obstacles on the beach that have to be negotiated. On a mud flat with kms to slow down in every direction 52 mph seems quite modest. My equipment is fairly rudimentary. I don?t have the far superior kites or buggies that are on the market at the moment. I expect that this superior equipment will be at the gathering though. I expect that, with the right wind, 25-30knots, that record will go. I know that the initiative in Britain is for an extremely high tech high budget assault on the record but it may be years before they pull it together. I am hoping that some aussies with low tech, low budget gear, big (well protected) balls and the right wind will get a certificate from Guinness World Records to cheer about. Look forward to seeing you soon. Oh and by the way, my cousin is a highway patrolman. :twisted:

Enjoy the buggy. I have had a lot of fun with mine. I found my normal sealed bearings didn't last long in the surf. I tried taking the seal off and packing them with grease and that helped a bit. I have replaced all of them with stainless bearings and have not had a problem since. If you are going to carry spare parts I suggest a couple of spare bolts for the back wheels. I have used the buggy as a billy cart on occassions playing with my son. We have one each. Jumps etc. While the axle straightens out if you turn it upside down and bounce on it, it is easier to replace the bolts rather than straighten them.

See the locations button on this site. Unfortunately not the best season for kiting. I would encourage more locals to add to this locations database. I would certainly appreciate finding some more locations for buggying in westerlys.

Is this event still planned? I note that there were only three votes in the poll. I would like to attend.