robmueck

I am also heading up to the dunes. Jon, I have spare buggies and kites if you want a lift. I have other commitments on Sunday but can offer you a lift up and bed for the night at my folks place (which isn't far from the railway). Forecast is for the southerly to hit right in low tide. blowing 15kts from the south at Nobbys at the moment.

Enjoy the hill troy. I'll pass. As mentioned I don't have my buggy with me at the moment. Don, we will have to try that park on the city west link. I hope to get my buggy/s back soon.

When I say Long Reef I mean the beach. It is about 1km long and therefore room for lots of buggies. Same for Wanda but its about 3-4km long. Low tide is twoish which means there would be plenty of space to buggy from about lunch time till about 4. Rain, well lets not not go in case it rains. If the wind is strong enough we can fly my CQuads wet. Slight hitch for me is I have got all 3 buggies up in Newcastle at the moment.

Troy When you say the weather looks crap I guess you mean it is looking like rain?

I suggest either Long Reef or Wanda from Sat lunch on. Long way to travel for those out west. Not often that it is the right conditions for these beaches but tomorrow looks good. Both offer very good long runs in a SE. What is good about the beach is being able to hit the water if getting too hot and racing kite surfers. I understand if somewhere out west is chosen.

What time?

Yes I am also keen. Happy to do either Riverwood or Yarra Bay. Extremely load tide tomorow afternoon and wind from the SW would make for good conditions at Yarra Bay. Not as open as Riverwood. Happy to give either a go.

woops sorry scopeman, everything was set to go except work had me playing cricket, then drinking, then going to the pub, then talking and sharing with my colleagues and ...... Unreliable.

I am hanging to go flying. But where in a NE. Silverwater maybe.

I didn't find out till later that this eclipse thingy lasted so long. Might go later if the wind holds up.

Forecast for nw wind. Full moon, large open space, warm night. Anyone interested?

What time gentlemen? Lunch time is looking the windiest.

I think I bought it off Aaron a couple of weeks ago.

I am heading out to Blacktown for a 7:30am meeting. I will give you a call after that.

No takers? Wind is looking good this weekend. Any suggestions for buggying in Sydney?

There is half a moon, low tide at 6am, wsw winds and things to do later in the day. Anyone interested?

Thanks for your company guys. Troy, thanks for suggesting the meet and loaning your 7m bullet. I wanted to point out the low pressure in my buggy tyres. If you look at the photos mike took you can see the tyre deform and both sides of the rim. Can't say I notice any difference in speed or notice it too much in the slides. I can hear it deform sometimes. I have it this low as it seems to work better for me on the sand. The only draw back is that the inside of the tyre fills with sand and rubbish, which at speed can vibrate like mad when unbalanced.

Its 5:30am and the wind ain't good. Could someone out that way please report.

I'll see you there. If the wind is not strong enough then I might head to Yarra. Low tide is at lunchtime.

Hopefully see you there. I wish I had your phone no.s.

Maybe. There doesn't look like a lot of wind. I haven't tried rooty hill or riverwood yet. The largest kite I have is a 6m cquad. It needs at least 12kn.

I'm sorry I didn't see this thread until now. I went to Yarra Bay. The only beach in the metro area I know that faces west and is wide enough to use. I had fun. Wind was nice and smooth. When the tide came up I went to La Perouse. There is a spot/peninsula about the size of a footbal field and that was fun too. Fyi, at Yarra Baybehind the beach they have turned what was a quarry into a park, not as interesting but a little more room to roam. Another good thing about Yarra Bay is that it is well lit at night. There are lights from the container terminal, a local sports field, lighs in the park etc etc.

Joel, up until this thread I have found your contributions really valuable. No need to counter someone else's opinion, just provide your own. I am worried your robust replys are going to put off people from giving me their contributions. To clarify about the direction of the wind. The venues I had in mind make the direction of the wind less critical. The dunes of the Stockton bight, for example, can easily give a couple of kilometres of downwing hazard free space no matter what the wind direction. In soft sand thats plenty. No point people sitting in a buggy until they know how to control a kite. My usual routine is to go through terminology: leading edge, trailing edge, downwind, upwind, wind window, brake lines. Then I get them to try and keep the kite at the top of the window. Once they can do that then I get them to move the kite around the edge of the window, slowly and to a limited extent at first then progressively further and faster. Then I get them skidding on their arse. I get them to sit on the ground, feet wide apart, drop the kite into the window by pulling on both the brake lines and then letting the brake lines go. A little at first and then progressively more each time. This is leading them up to skiing/skidding standing up, an important skill to learn to avoid the hazard of galloping downwind under power. Next is learning to loop the kite. Learners panic as soon as the kite heads towards the ground. They need to learn to stay committed to the turn and that the kite flies just fine with the lines crossed. They also need to learn to fly the kite by pulling on the handles not turning them like a steering wheel. Once they can compentently loop a kite then its time to sit in the buggy. If it is light winds then they will have to learn to turn the kite down and across the window rather than doing leading edge up turns. Then as I mentioned above its on to buggy skills. If someone is a slow learner and it comes to the end of the day, it doesn't hurt to give them a go in the buggy before they have mastered all the kite skills. They will get pulled out of the buggy, dragged downwind and crash the kite. In soft sand with plenty of downwind space its all part of the fun.

Thanks for the feed back. Please, if any one has a comment I would welcome it. I'd like to clarify that I am not doing this for profit. I am looking for a financially sustainable way to develop my obsession into my lifestyle. I want to make safety a priority. Pre flight theory is important. A little knowledge goes a long way sometimes. The lessons will of course be best remebered from putting them into practice. I like the idea of a hotch potch of kites. With experience I may come to favour a kite for teaching but I would like to experiment with what is out there. I also think that four string foils are the way to go. I think it helps in learning about the aerodynamics of the kite. With the ratio of students to teacher, yes 8 to 1 wouldn't work. What I had in mind is that once there was more than say 5 then a second "teacher" would come along. My experience has been that with a group not everyone wants to fly at once. People enjoy watching others, assisting others and having a break. The idea of using standard wheels is because they don't travel well in soft sand. I have found that the most common frustration of people learning to buggy is that they struggle to get the direction of the tack right and usually end up going downwind, sometimes backwards, with the kite falling from the sky and the lines tangled around the wheels. Put the buggy in soft sand with standard wheels and the buggy doesn't continue to roll when the tension comes out of the lines. Beginners can then get the buggy rolling downwind by dropping the kite into the window a bit. As soon as the buggy moves the tension comes out of the line and the buggy stops quickly and the kite can bbe kept in the air. They repeat this process until they learn to keep the tension in the lines by not heading straight down wind but at a bit of a cross wind tack. By degrees they learn to take the side ways pull and the rear end drift. When they have the experience and confidence then they can move to the hard sand, or if I buy some, the bigfoots. Thanks for the legal lesson. I want to learn more. I will study the site that been linked.

I've been buggying for 6-7 years now and have decided to take my obsession to a new level. I've bought a landcruiser troopy and am about to embark on a business teaching people how to use traction kites and buggys. I find this satisfying, now I want to see if it will pay and am prepared to try the whole liability/insurance/marketing/cash flow business thingy out. Any recommendations on kit? I have found in the past that the easiest, and safest way to teach buggying is to do it in soft sand. People start their experience being dragged down wind. There is enough buggy resistance in soft sand to enable them to keep the kite in the air, and by going down wind the power of the kite is self moderating. As their confidence grows they can, by degrees, start tacking across the wind. What I am after is recommendations on good value for money kites considering: 1. These kites will be forever crashing. So something robust, repairable, relaunchable, … 2. Something easy to use. Stable, low aspect ratio, … 3. Safe. Backstrap rather than harness. 4. I’ll need to cover a wide range of wind strengths and pilot weight. 5. I am looking to cater for up to 8 students at a time. I love my C-Quads. They are responsive and I have found most people learn on them alright. The only issue is that I am forever repairing the leading edge or one of the other spars keeps popping through the kite. I haven’t really tried any of the main brands/models. I have an Ngen, its OK, a two stringer so that makes it easier to learn. Yet I am going to have to buy a fair bit of kit. I suppose I can do it piecemeal and experiment but I would appreciate recommendations. I have a few buggies. I don’t think the type of buggy itself is critical, as long as it is the right size. Anyone got any second hand kit that would be useful for teaching they want to part with? Any recommendations on the appropriate off the shelf kites?