Ainsdale Update

[kitedud]

Andy,

 

What is all the fuss. Methinks somepeople are finding it to difficult to comprehend the fact that you are doing something extremely positive for the sport. As for the whinging about money.... four pints a year or so out of their wages.. compared to the cost of an 05 Kite. Come on lets throw a little perspective on this. Everyone should support the advances you have made. (climbs off soapbox)

 

Kitedud

 

Ride the Wind

[aworm]

Thanks Dud .Hope to see you with an 05 kite soon:)

[flyboy1599968605]

hi,just read up on everything now.i kite with 3 other of my mates,can the responsible person be 16 or does it have to be over?I'm already a member of AOSPKC do i have to join TASKC as well to be on land and water.thanks

[wayne kitesurfer]

According to todays liverpool echo,Merseysides only blue flag beach has lost its symbol of clean sands and water, the north west is the only region in the uk not to have a blue flag beach on its coastline.

Whilst i applaud sefton council for all its efforts to keep Ainsdale a kite friendly beach, i fear the greatest dangers to visitors are not from kites but from the very beach itself.

It does look cool though doesn't it ,when your screaming along in the channels and there is a solid brown screen coming from the back of your board.

But dont' worry it still meets the minimum standard required( not sure what it is though, probably less than 1/1000 particle of faeces)

[Bobby]

Was down there tonight - nasty scum pics see;

 

http://www.flexifoil.com/community/forums/showthread.php?p=815517#post815517

[Howard Marks]

Just go surfing where you don't have to be a member of a club! There are plenty of places where you can enjoy a nice day out! with better lagoons and less rip.

 

I take it that the kids who get dropped off are Need a kite mike and friends. I'm sure one of you guys can look after them, as a parent on the beach is fook all use. They probably won't even be able to tell which one is their kid when 20 surfers are on the water, never mind help them in anyway.

 

Club rash vests???? (probably sponsored by EK) better make them flo pink for saftey..

 

It all seems a little OTT...... you guys need to chill, not happy with all the rules and clubs on the land but now ur taking it to the water. That's why I learnt to surf in the first place...to get away from all the ****...arrrgh:mad:

 

I hate to say it but Ainsdale is a role model for how not to do things, how many clubs does one beach need!!!!

 

I might start a static flying club!

[www.airforce.uk]

Just go surfing where you don't have to be a member of a club! There are plenty of places where you can enjoy a nice day out! with better lagoons and less rip.

 

I take it that the kids who get dropped off are Need a kite mike and friends. I'm sure one of you guys can look after them, as a parent on the beach is fook all use. They probably won't even be able to tell which one is their kid when 20 surfers are on the water, never mind help them in anyway.

 

Club rash vests???? (probably sponsored by EK) better make them flo pink for saftey..

 

It all seems a little OTT...... you guys need to chill, not happy with all the rules and clubs on the land but now ur taking it to the water. That's why I learnt to surf in the first place...to get away from all the ****...arrrgh:mad:

 

I hate to say it but Ainsdale is a role model for how not to do things, how many clubs does one beach need!!!!

 

I might start a static flying club![/quote Howard As There are too many restrictions in place at ainsdale for you to surf and enjoy it.....and you are an experianced kiter....and you know need- a- kite mike and his crew personally..... maybe you could spare a little time to keep an eye on them.

[carl999]

Scotty, Howard Marks (Andy) runs upa hill kite shop.

 

I can't believe you are not supporting the clubs at Ainsdale Andy, if it wasn't for the clubs the beach would probably be closed to us now and many of your customers would have no place to fly, the kite surfers at Ainsdale have had the pressure put on them by the council just like we have on the land, all they are doing is ensuring the place remains open for kite surfing.

 

Scotty or Andy Worm, do you carry club app forms with you when on the beach? If so please put one aside for me.

 

Carl.

[Howard Marks]

I would always be happy to help any kiter that is in trouble on the water, if I could do so without getting myself into any dangerous situation. I can fly one handed so picking up a board is no problem and a kite that won't turn over in low wind is also easy to do.

 

I have been on the water once at the same time as mike and co and was enjoying watching them pull some huge air. They kept out of my way and showed a good attitude to other flyers on the water.

 

If i join the BKSA do I have to pay more on top to fly at Aindale in the future? and will I have to join your club even if im a member of southshore boarders?

 

Hey carl..

 

It's not that I don't like clubs, it's more like I don't want to join three! I'm sure all you guys can sit down and just make one...peace and love etc etc It's just getting so confusing!

 

I have no probs with helmets..i wear one! but don't really want to have to wear a rash vest... you would be better off making life jackets compulsory.

 

I just feel for all the red tape and risk stuff the council put you all through, the beach/sea will not be a safer place for it.

 

If the council want to make it safer buy Aindale Kitesurfers a rescue boat... I would pay at least £50 a year to have that out on the water!

[carl999]

Andy (upahill) I will give you a call during the week, there are some very serious reasons why non of us will accept the responsibility of youngsters on the beach, reasons I will not publish on here, I have also explained the reasons to the very talented young lads on Ainsdale beach.

 

Carl.

[carl999]

I just feel for all the red tape and risk stuff the council put you all through, the beach/sea will not be a safer place for it.

 

If the council want to make it safer buy Aindale Kitesurfers a rescue boat... I would pay at least £50 a year to have that out on the water!

 

Well for the land Andy we will also be commencing a training system, more for the newbies really, so the place will become safer, and as a potential kite surfer I to would pay more for a rescue boat but the practicalities of this would cost a fortune for rescue cover during daylight hours with wind, plus if you go down this path then the council could bring a rule "no rescue boat no kite surfing" and none of us really want that.

 

Carl.

[spooky]

Hi have to ak, if teh council are so keen for Ainsdale to become this "mecca" for kite sports, why are they putting so many restrictions in place? Seems to be a case of exclusion rather than inclusion?

Don't get me wrong not saying the clubs are stopping people from joing etc, but not making it eay for people to use facilities etc?

 

As I under stand it the hassles that happened on land, ie the forming of two land kiting clubs due to conflicts (ie some people sulking) and in what appears to be "insider dealing" and "contacts" with the council to get one club to be the official one, the one that seems to be making it the hardest for people to use the beach (ie loads of restrictions that are all down to the council apparently??).

Are now causing problems on water?

I fully appriciate people trying to protect there local sites etc, BUT I am concerned that what is happening there is becoming the recognisd standard fro coucnils everywhere to adopte?

Even here in Oxford, the council we are trying to convince to allow us to re-use a site are quoating what is being done up there? and trust me it is not applicable to our local site?

 

Best of luck, Jon

[carl999]

Jon yea it does look like Sefton Council are being approached from all over the place, the last I heard they also recommended to a Council on the east coast "dont bother with clubs" but all three clubs here at Ainsdale are now thinking of putting a large event together in October, the one big advantage of clubs is they can have events insurance via the various bodies if affiliated, change often causes concern but in the long run the changes that are being made are being put together by the people taking part in the sport, lets hope we get it right.

 

Tons of the kite surfers at Ainsdale have helped us land guys loads, lots of them are ex land users.

 

Carl.

[spooky]

Hi, have nothing against clubs, and yes if afiliated they can run events, which can help promote the sport?

BUT if the council wants Ainsdale to be this guiding light in the kiting world, ie promote it and run events then it shoud be under there insurance rather than forcing others to put there insurance/premiums t risk?

 

Also I still have problems with the "Must join a club" to us a public beach approach? Yes I accept that while it may be public that you can not do what ever you want, and that the council can decided what happens on "their" public beach. But IMHO the disaplines are either safe or not safe, and being in a club will not change that, so how can club memebers only be allowed to use it etc?

Nor will having insurance, though I do think people should be and I accept that by using a clubit is easier to regulate/see who is insured. BUT inturn this does lead to some peope being very territorial, I myself have been intimidated over the last 2/3 years by "locals" on sites where information/signage on restrictions have been either non exsistant or inadiqaute/hard to spot at best. In most cases I have not being doing anything wrong, just I'm not one of them or flying the right kit? (some people just do not like open foils on water?? ). After all it is the council that are the enforcing authority, which shoudl also mean that if some one was not behaving themselves, be it a member or not that it shoudl be them that is banned/removed rather than the normal threat of a possible ban on ALL kiters etc?

 

The fact there are 3 clubs at Ainsdale dose stike me as though something is going wrong?

 

IMHO if clubs are needed, then it should be only members of a National body that should be able to use a site, that way you avoid any of this local club or joing loads of situation? Ideally if we had ONE national body fro al kiters, then anyone in the body would be a club memebre and would have insurance, so no worries?

 

All the best Jon

[carl999]

Jon, thats the other reason for the clubs, the Council will not put a blanket ban on us now, they can deal with an individual club member if the club cannot sort the problems etc.

 

One body for all kite sports, well this may well be moving forwards, rumour has it the fed & pksf are talking to one another:D (well not just rumour tbh)

 

With clubs in operation on various beaches / sites etc. this would also be another way to visit another clubs site for the day / weekend, this way you know the visitors will be made welcome and any safety issues dealt with:)

 

Carl.

[spooky]

Hi, Sounds good but who deals with non-memebers? After all, some peopel who are normally responcible who suddenly find they can not use xx site (as not everone come on here) could be forced into breaking what is in their eyes a very small un-important rule? Even by flying late evening?

 

Visitors from other clubs? well that means you need to be a member of another club? So again what happens to non memebers?

Also as for visitors being made welcome? I wish that was the case every where? Seems that if you are a "local" even if you have only been in the sport for a year, that you are more important and have more rights than those that have been in the sport for years, those who helped develope and/or promote the sport (that enabled these "locals" to get into it) are getting treated badly, sometimes with contempt and sometimes even intimidation and threats of violence???

 

Ref councils now not being able to ban something as there are clubs? Have to ask, surely if people are complying with a set of rules/code of conduct etc, then there can be no justification for councils to ban it?

Yes if one of the rules is to be a memember and people do not (even though they fly in a safe and curtiouse manner, fly with in designted zones, have liability insurance etc etc) then that would not be sufficent for council to ban it, but just ban them?

NB remember if one of the rules is to be a member, there is a great risk that anyone who had insurance but not a memember, would now have it invalidated? And as such the council will be liable for any incidents? Seems to me that councils are using the threat of blanket/group punishment to get people to do their dirty work for them, ie ensure that everyone joins, rather than punishig te individuals concerned?

IMHO by allowing all kiters to use a site/beach inline with certain requirments, ie insurance, zones etc, it would enable people to just turn up and fly making everyones life and job easier? After all, the reports we keep seeing on here about people flying on banned sites or outside zones and thus effecting our future, tend to be those who do not give a t0ss?

One off day visitors, Chavs, Scum of the earth and the like, they seem to do so whether there is a club there or not, so how can a club benifit the access on plublic land, after all those that are responcible do so where there is a club or not?

 

I know I go on about it, but have just heard that Saunton Sands may now be going club only aswell !!! Now how can anyone justifie over 4 miles of beach, when only the first 400m is used by anyone else becoming club memembers only? How can a "private" beach ban people from operating on water (after all the do not have by-laws?) Also when on land they are just static kiters, which they will/can not ban (well not with out becomeing fully paid up memebers of the TaliBAN!!).

 

Going to be contravertial (sp) here, but I'm starting to feel that the main reason for all these bans (as once one place does other councils think "Mmm, theres a good idea") was because we gave in and let them do so, rather than telling them to poke it and making it as hard/expencive as possible for them to do so, as only then would they really talk to us?

After all when did you last see the local kids get a dedicated SK8 park built for them out of tax payers money, because they asked nicely and complied with bans? No they carried on till the councils had no option? what are we asking for? Not muh, at most the cost of some signs?

Please note this is not a dig at anyone who has worked hard to protect their local sites, as we all have different views on how best to deal with things and we all wish to protect our local spot, but in hind sight I feel all the "localsied" approaches are back firing?

 

 

Just a thoght, Jon

 

 

Jon, thats the other reason for the clubs, the Council will not put a blanket ban on us now, they can deal with an individual club member if the club cannot sort the problems etc.

 

One body for all kite sports, well this may well be moving forwards, rumour has it the fed & pksf are talking to one another:D (well not just rumour tbh)

 

With clubs in operation on various beaches / sites etc. this would also be another way to visit another clubs site for the day / weekend, this way you know the visitors will be made welcome and any safety issues dealt with:)

 

Carl.

[carl999]

Some good very valid points Jon, I know for the land I will do my best to try to get the council to allow day visitors at minimal cost, free if it was up to me, this "must join" is counter productive to Sefton's tourism industry and very bad in the beginning for all aspects of our sport, hopefully SCC are reading this thread and take on board some of your points, I know they do spend time reading various threads.

 

Carl.

[SandMonster]

...I would think on a bit before suggesting councils / land owners fully take on running beaches...how much does it cost to go swimming for an hour at your local pool, or for a round of golf at your local park...its not free as far as I know

[kitedud]

kite people...

 

Let us stop for a moment and look at the simple facts of life form the perspective of an employer... I have to ensure that my employees work in a safe environment with method statements and risk assessments for every task they undertake.. why.. well. My ass is on the line if I don't. As is every managers’…

Health and Safety at work Act is pretty strong on this sort of stuff and the Council have to abide by all sorts of other public liability stuff as well...

The council as owners/managers of the land have a duty of care to ensure that it is as safe as possible..... (Sefton Council are taken to court every year by people who have cut their feet on discarded Shells from marine shellfish.... Duh!.... on a beach...!!!!!! how careless can you get?)

So way back when... The Kiters at Ainsdale were approached in order to make the activity safer for "Joe Public" and thereby save the council megabucks should an unregulated/unauthorised activity cause death or injury to the aforementioned Joe.. This was just after the death in Lytham (remember that..? all Powerkites banned???... because a Landyacht snuffed a member of the public on a perfect beam reach (70mph+))

Ainsdale was one of the first Beaches re-opened... Due largely to the activity of a few people who wanted kiting to continue at Ainsdale... representing the few members who were interested. Because representation was essential ..duh!.. we had to do it… I started but due to marriage etc had to move and so it fell to Aworm. (May praise fall upon the shoulders of greatness.!) (Not kowtowing more just plain sycophantic..mate (also a bit bored by this string… hmmm Oxford by the sea.. where exactly is that??))

 

If you want to Kite at Ainsdale… then follow the rules.. they are simple and reasonable.. and cheaper than the Golf Club/Squash Club/ Climbing Club/ Paragliding Club or just about any type of club you would like to mention.!

If YOU want to flaunt the rules (simple though they are) then don’t fly at Ainsdale… play somewhere where your ability/inability is recognised and your presence is unnecessary and your life and that of others worthless in your opinion). Rule flaunters will ruin it for the rest of us Law abiding wind freeks.. Stay away if you don’t want to play by the rules….!

 

I love this soapbox stuff don’t you know?

 

 

Kitedud

[spooky]

...I would think on a bit before suggesting councils / land owners fully take on running beaches...how much does it cost to go swimming for an hour at your local pool, or for a round of golf at your local park...its not free as far as I know

Hi SM,

Thats the point, "we" are not asking them to run it, just to be offered the same as anything else, ie if some one is being a t0sser then they get told to leave?

They do not provide facilities for others to use teh beacjh (apart from life guards, and then only becuse kids are involved, they woudl not do sofor surfers or windsurfers, jetskiers etc??).

Cost? what cost, at most some signs, and if they say kiting is a valid part of their tourisim or getting ticks in teh book for cultral awarness and diversity etc, then surely that is worth paying for the signs etc?

 

The ones you have quoted are ones that they need to provide and maitain the facilities, what maintanace do we need? The tide maintains the beach for us twice a day

Plus take into account the fact that that the areas we use would other wise not be being used for anything, then surely we are helping the council make best use of the land/beach?

 

Just another thought?

 

Jon

[kitelunatic]

hi i am james hughes i am one of the "needakitemike gang lol" i would just like to say that wen the rule about the parents watching comes in i will be 16 and so will most of my mates so just chiil.kiting is about kiting and having fun not making all theses clubs.This is partly why i kite at other locations because honestly i think it is quite sad.personally i am not at all arsed if you want me to kite with a parent present because i have as much right to kite on the beach as anyone else.fair enough you may be being pushed into this by the rangers why dont u just tell me wot is going on then just chill instead of just talking about it on the internet. peace out.

[spooky]

Oxford by the sea? Thats the point!!

The kiting community is dragged into what is happening up there, because teh council are pushing them selves as a Mecca for kiting so other councils are looking to them for guidance, yet what applies there is not always suitable for other areas?

 

Please do not get me wrong, I am not against the hard work the locals have put in, but I have been kiting for over 6 years (though was told at the weekend I'm just an amature? ) but now 6 sites that I used to use reguarly I now have to join a club for or are banned?

NB I agree Ainsdale is not one of them.

Not only that but ones that I woudl have to join, I'm not garrented to be able to use them if I turn up anyway?

Add to that the lack of incidents involving "traction" kiting, why ban/control us but nothing else?

Under 16 having to be supervised? I'll accept they coudl be at risk, but why should teh council be held responcible (and hence requireing teh club to have the rule about suppervision) when no other under 16 has to be suppervised to surf, windsurf, jet ski, or even just swim?

I just feel that we are making this harder for ourselves but accepting and bending over backwards to do what the council tell us?

All teh best, Jon

 

P.s I was coming upto Ainsdale way in July for something else, but now I am not as know where for me to kite?

[ShapeShifter]

Jon - Day passes will be made available according to the last council meeting. All you need to do is go to the rangers office and ask for one.

[spooky]

Hi Good news, that was one of my concerns that like some other clubs you had to obtain permits etc in advance.

Fully understand the coucil wishing to check everyone is insured etc, just feel liek restricting this is not help as all it does is push people to other areas, casuing issues there?

 

I like the approach at Westward Ho! Yes insurance and helmets are required, but policy is Sod off up the other end, thats your zone, your out of the way of regular people, so go have some fun?

Sorry but is that to simple?

 

Yes you will get some people who ignore, areunaware (how??) or wish to stick with their families, but these will stick out amoungst sun bathers and as such can be delt with, with out effecting those who are being sencible?

 

Best of luck, Jon

[flyboy1599968605]

i agree with spooky their its a good point