carl999

Huge thanks for your time & effort putting the web site together Ash, All silly prices are on the below web-site http://www.mschsk8.com/kitegear/index.html Carl.

I really dont think we are getting anywhere here guys, if the BPKA want a testing system I am sure I will be involved, all I am saying is that, do we this being BPKA members want a licencing system, I personally dont believe the members do, I could however be very wrong. I also think the BPKA dont need a licencing system. Big John asked for some input, now he has some Should I choose to attend the SC, I would gladly take your licence Carl.

Ah the perfect arguement, driving on roads and the driving test, do you really want me to go into figures for deaths on the road A perfect example of how a testing system needs to be sustained throughout someone's driving years, I happen to get tested every year at work, my bad habbits are picked up and ironed out, its all written down as evidence of training that ensures I am adopting a life long learning approach, as well as continued proffessional development!! Carl.

Garry, these speeds are also possible in a none race situation, potentially with already unlicenced riders, how have they been reacting upto now also shows that a licence is just a licence, it proved you competant at the time of taking it, as I have said there are other ways of proving competance, ways that could be verified at each event. Now dont take this personally Garry, when was you issued a licence? what evidence do you have to prove you are still competant? No offence intended!! Carl.

Mike, if we did that there would also be nothing to stop any Council from forcing everyone at every site to prove competence, the ramifications would be massive This is I believe why Sefton initially went down the Fed route, as well as they already have bylaws for land yachts. As people have said, for now if people want to race at the SC find a trainer to issue a licence. Voluntary cycling profiency, voluntary power kite / kite buggy / landboard certificates of achievement Carl.

If you want to race in the SC then yea deffo licencing is your way, not the BPKA way, not at the moment anyhow, I would also strongly oppose it for the reasons I have given above. Wind please wind god, I need to fly Carl.

Its a big issue Simon & I do understand it, you have to have a licence to race, you also have too join fed clubs to get access to some of the good sites, you are also forced to join the fed which in the modern world is years behind the times. You therefore have to comply with fed rules, I suppose I challenge rules, even more so when I feel there are better ways of doing things, I am sure the passion in you guys will lead you the right way but I doubt the BPKA will want to adopt a licencing system, like you have also said how much work would be involved just to attract a few more potential racers? I would be going to the insurance company and explaining the faults in the system but assuring them that your alternative is a much better sound one that will never need to be changed. Carl.

Simon I do not dispute what the licencing system is in place for, it may prevent some crashes but not all, thats the nature of our sport, we all crash from time to time. All I am saying is there are other ways of achieving your goals, much more professional modern methods that encourage continued professional development, best practice supported with written evidence to prove your development, life long learning etc etc. I would strongly advise some of you familiarise yourselves with Sport England Wake up guys it will be 2007 soon. Carl.

So do we really need a licence to say we can start, stop & turn? Now I know there is a lot more to racing than just that but to get someone started in racing what do they really need to be able to do ? I would suggest the above with some etiquette, maybe what to do in the case of an accident, i.e EAP (emergency action plan) I could go into tons of detail here but I will resist!! Flag familiarisation. You could also just create some event rules and get people to sign upto them, these rules could state that you are signing to say you can start, stop & turn safely, done at each event you also get rid of the need for continual assessment, I could take my licence tomorrow but only race in ten years time, cause a major crash, a licence could then be viewed as worthless. Carl.

Carl I disagree with you 100% that a licence is a barrier. Sadly your comment is out of touch with common sense... go to any motor racing or motor cycling event and the chaps and chapettes are licenced... Licencing shouldn't be seen as a barrier BUT shows a level of competance to fly around a course safely and be aware of the rules of the road. It ensures your safety and importantly the safety of others. The sport in general welcomes with open arms noobs and with appropriate help and assistance can aspire to getting a licence once they are competant. I actually feel that for the first 6 races a noob licence holder should have a novice plate as they do in motor racing... just so that experienced pilots can be aware of inexperienced. It's actually the same in paragliding! Hope you don't take offence at my comments... I talk as someone who has done the pathway... David No offence taken at all, I happen to agree totally for the fed to have a licencing system, 80mph in a class 1 on a public beach Yep get these folks licenced, kite buggies however are a different kettle of fish Have a look around all the Councils who allow kite sports, are they the ones screaming for licencing ? If they do then we may have too but at the moment they are probably leaving us to enjoy our sport Carl.

Some people need to consider the impact of a licencing system, you can only come to this event if this if that if the other, many of us are very happy the way we are operating now, BPKA clubs host events and if you are insured turn up & play, this approach encourages people to take part in sport without lots of barriers. Personally I would hate the thought of organising an event only to find myself along with all other instructors being forced to stand around assessing peoples skill levels. Our insurance claims history shows councils that we can operate as we are without any need for licencing!! If the BPKA want licencing then I will offer my assistance. If you really want to attract other people into racing John, have a look at this probably the best advice you will ever get on this thread. http://www.wiganpowerkiter.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Fun.jpg Carl.

Been there and done that one Spooky, BBC then members, put over £1000 into the fed, money that was being used to fund fed racing, that just aint fair. The other option of course is that the fed clubs form BPKA clubs on there sites, that one is too easy tho but would give people a fair choice Carl.

Not argueing but a licence is also a barrier to people taking part in sport, the government are trying to address the health of the nation by encouraging people to take part in sport, licencing is just a barrier. If every sport adopted your approach we would all have been forced to take our cycling profiency tests when learning to ride a bike, I am assuming we can all ride a push bike here Fed is a landyacht organisation, class 1's can travel at scary speeds, hence the licencing, kite buggies just dont do these speeds in general, when you look at the high speed days you also generally get a much quieter beach, so the risks are again minimal, then you look at a kite buggies manouvrability, again the risks are minimal. The fed/pka however, have a well established international racing scene, this could be helpful in the future. Carl.

John, I would contact Adam Jones, BPKA Head Coach. Put your ideas to him and see what he can do, I did this for our certificates of achievement, there is nothing stopping us creating a BPKA race licence, I just aint too sure that licencing is the best way forward, I do however understand your problem, its probably a condition of the fed insurance, I could go on to other things but these forums just create wars As Simon says the SC has a following which is serving the race fraternity well. Should the BPKA wish to organise its own racing then I am also sure it will sort it out, this would not be done to compete against any other race series though, not in my book anyhow, the whole sport needs more events!! Carl.

Craig says it all to be honest, I did post something regarding licencing on another racing thread but I got no response, I did try though!! Until the licencing is sorted I cant help any more, can a Fed/Pka trainer issue a licence to BPKA members, I doubt this very much. Carl.