Ground Stake

[Darren Tibbey]

What the best way to attach your kite line to a ground point? I dont really like wrapping or larks heading the line to a fence post or the towbar. Does anyone have a better way of doing it. 

[andy666]

These guys seem to have it sorted...

 

[Darren Tibbey]

I should get lessons from them. I should let him hold my 12sq mtr kite. ?

[Chook]

I'm making one of these at the moment to use on the towbar on my Patrol.

I'll see if it simplifies multiple kites off the one lifter. I seem to get them plaited with all their individual winders tied separately at the moment.

I'm still waiting on some 6 x 25 aluminium flat bar and I'm going to put a figure of eight descender on the front (reversed) to lessen the load if needing to adjust the height of the lifter. In our S/Westers I have to get the pilot right up into clean air to remain stable and have peace of mind.

 

I found the info here.

http://gallery.whatakite.com/index.php/HOW-TO-DO/ANCHOR-SYSTEMS

 

[Darren Tibbey]

Wow thats really complicated. I just use a carabiner for laundry and wrap it around the line. Its more the main line i want to attach to something. But has to hold big stuff without letting go. Plan on getting a peter lynn maxi at some point.

[Chook]

Yeh this above seems to fit my bill as the anchor point but time will tell.

My hassle was when there is a wind shift which always happens here, I had lines tied everywhere and struggled to move them all at once. Hopefully this will simplify that.

I have 2 big sand anchors each 1200 x1200 heavy PVC tarp with reinforced edges and straps. Lots of stakes and pins that weigh a ton. I like to over kill with stacked crossed stakes for peace of mind.

In really hard ground I just use a single stake. I just carry a cordless drill with a long 10mm masonry bit, I use as a pilot hole to get them in. Easy to remove as you pour a drink bottle of water round them 5 mins before you want to remove them. Hammer them in a few more hits to slosh them up and then extract them.

To tie off the lines at the moment I use these larks headed onto the end of the stakes. (the yellow webbing) By pulling the line down in between the arms and figure 8 weaving the line round them it ties off the line. It's easy to undo and no knots required. The tighter they pull the more they grip the line.

The top one in the photo is a stainless line winder I made from 6mm stainless rod. I have lots of sizes.

Stakes are 600-700mm galvanized star pickets with a 10mm thick flat bar top welded on and the corners rounded off so they don't skin your shins or burr the picket top when banging them in, helps to retain the webbing as well. Always driven into the ground so the long side of the Y of the picket faces away from the kite, just as they were designed to hold stock in paddocks as fence posts.

I also have a stack of "D-bar" concrete reinforcing bar stakes, in 10-12-16mm with large knobs welded to the top for safety if someone happened to fall onto them (probably me). I grid the first 100mm of D's off the bottom of them to penetrate and not disturb the soil so badly deep down, for much better gripping power.

 

[spotter]

I dont fly using separate lines for each piece of laundry. I did not a while and just found it a pain to deal with.  My main flying line is overkill for what I really need so I wrap the carabina around the main fly line 3 times and use the tight rope to hold it in place.  I went this way once I started flying a mega turbine https://www.invento-hq.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=935&Itemid=303 due to the pull and I needed to hold it up the line not down the line.

I have been looking at using a loop of rope that one end attaches to the carabina then wraps around the main fly line and then attaches back into the carabina.  Problem is, I have not flown for a long time to look at this.

[Chook]

I tried the single line but found I really struggled by myself to retrieve the kites particularly when the sea-breeze hit with a vengeance.

With multiple lines I can be a big girl and get them down one at a time and not have them flap to death before I can get them into a bag.. 

[Darren Tibbey]

Be interested to see that work once you have it all up and running. @Chook

[Darren Tibbey]

9 hours ago, Chook said:

Yeh this above seems to fit my bill as the anchor point but time will tell.

My hassle was when there is a wind shift which always happens here, I had lines tied everywhere and struggled to move them all at once. Hopefully this will simplify that.

I have 2 big sand anchors each 1200 x1200 heavy PVC tarp with reinforced edges and straps. Lots of stakes and pins that weigh a ton. I like to over kill with stacked crossed stakes for peace of mind.

In really hard ground I just use a single stake. I just carry a cordless drill with a long 10mm masonry bit, I use as a pilot hole to get them in. Easy to remove as you pour a drink bottle of water round them 5 mins before you want to remove them. Hammer them in a few more hits to slosh them up and then extract them.

To tie off the lines at the moment I use these larks headed onto the end of the stakes. (the yellow webbing) By pulling the line down in between the arms and figure 8 weaving the line round them it ties off the line. It's easy to undo and no knots required. The tighter they pull the more they grip the line.

The top one in the photo is a stainless line winder I made from 6mm stainless rod. I have lots of sizes.

Stakes are 600-700mm galvanized star pickets with a 10mm thick flat bar top welded on and the corners rounded off so they don't skin your shins or burr the picket top when banging them in, helps to retain the webbing as well. Always driven into the ground so the long side of the Y of the picket faces away from the kite, just as they were designed to hold stock in paddocks as fence posts.

I also have a stack of "D-bar" concrete reinforcing bar stakes, in 10-12-16mm with large knobs welded to the top for safety if someone happened to fall onto them (probably me). I grid the first 100mm of D's off the bottom of them to penetrate and not disturb the soil so badly deep down, for much better gripping power.

 

Your quite clever fella there @Chook just read how it all works. Whats the biggest stuff you fly? Will it all be held by this setup?

[Chook]

Just on a budget that's all Darren gotta do it on the cheap to keep the bride reasonably happy. Built up over time.

Only the cheaper (Chinese display kites) that includes a 26mtr,15mtr and 1/2 a dozen 8mtr Occys. 60mtr snake.

6 and 9 mtr pilots a 7 mtr frog lifter,

10mtr.. Killer whale, tiger, jellyfish, squid, Trilobite and a panda.

Along with LOTS of smaller stuff, penguins, bees, ladybirds heaps of tails and twisters for fun. Traditional box kites and heaps of deltas.

I'm pretty ordinary on dualies but still really enjoy them.

Still have my original Peter Powell stunt kite I was given by my grand father back in 1974, that got me started.

My kids got me back into it again as they grew up. Now they hang glide and I'm earth bound.

Our beaches are very narrow and drop into deep water fairly quickly so I usually only fly one line of kites for simplicity and my own enjoyment.

Lots of buggying and landsailing (trying to cover 10,000 kms for the second year in a row, still got 1,972kms to complete before Kingston, 13th Jan next year) and love all my Revs as well.

I work 3 days a week at the local Ag College and I work at home from 8.00am to 12 knots on my days off!!!!

 

[Darren Tibbey]

Wow thats a fair swag of stuff you have there. Look forward to flying with you at some point. I to have a fairly good collection of all sorts of stuff. Its been in storage for a long time so not really sure what l have the usual foils, deltas and line laundry. Looking at expanding to a few of the smaller Peter Lynn toys aswell.

[KaoS]

My 2 cents worth...

Whenever possible I anchor with weighted bags rather than peg into the ground.  Very easy on most beaches (just fill them with sand).  Not so easy on land, but not always impossible.  Depending on where you are you might find rubble, rocks.  If you've got access to water, plastic milk bottles filled with water then placed in a sack make for a very useable anchor.

But sometimes you just have to use stakes or pegs.  Mine range from 5mm 25 mm diameter.

Here I've got a cordura sand bag and carabiner, large peg with webbing strap and tie-offs, small peg with tie-offs, and long webbing strap

I never attach flying line directly to the pegs, always lark's head to a strap or heavy duty line tie-off.  That way the lark's head won't slip.  I usually have 2 or 4 tie-off points per peg.  That way you can shorten or lengthen flying line from the winder before taking off the original attachment.  Also, you can anchor a second flying line if you want to have separate lines for your pilot and your line junk/inflatables.

I've given up using the square sheet sand anchors that you bury on the beach.  Sand can wash or blow out of them too easily, and they are a bugger to relocate.  I now use cordura bags with heavy duty straps and carabiners.  The big plus here is you can use as many or as few bags as you need per anchor point - just carabiner them together.  And they are easy to relocate when necessary.  Wind direction change, tide coming in, whatever...

How to tie flying line to a carabiner??  I use a variation of slip knot

Fold the line back on itself

Form a loop

Pull the strands nearest the end through the loop, leaving the end free

Now clip all three loops onto the carabiner

The will hold fast  until you remove it from the carabiner.  To undo, pull on the single loop, allowing the double loops to come through from the other side of the knot - Voila!

[Darren Tibbey]

What do you recommend for Peter Lynn Maxi's? @KaoS same system just bigger?

[KaoS]

10 minutes ago, Darren Tibbey said:

What do you recommend for Peter Lynn Maxi's? @KaoS same system just bigger?

Yep - as big as necessary.

BTW here's a clearer set of pics explaining the slip knot

 

 

[Chook]

Love your bag anchor idea Kevin!!!! 

It really sucks when I have to relocate, dig a hole for my second one and then change the lines over without the kite killing me. Usually means landing em if it's too greater distance to the new site.

Thanks for sharing. 

[Darren Tibbey]

8 hours ago, KaoS said:

My 2 cents worth...

Whenever possible I anchor with weighted bags rather than peg into the ground.  Very easy on most beaches (just fill them with sand).  Not so easy on land, but not always impossible.  Depending on where you are you might find rubble, rocks.  If you've got access to water, plastic milk bottles filled with water then placed in a sack make for a very useable anchor.

But sometimes you just have to use stakes or pegs.  Mine range from 5mm 25 mm diameter.

Here I've got a cordura sand bag and carabiner, large peg with webbing strap and tie-offs, small peg with tie-offs, and long webbing strap

I never attach flying line directly to the pegs, always lark's head to a strap or heavy duty line tie-off.  That way the lark's head won't slip.  I usually have 2 or 4 tie-off points per peg.  That way you can shorten or lengthen flying line from the winder before taking off the original attachment.  Also, you can anchor a second flying line if you want to have separate lines for your pilot and your line junk/inflatables.

I've given up using the square sheet sand anchors that you bury on the beach.  Sand can wash or blow out of them too easily, and they are a bugger to relocate.  I now use cordura bags with heavy duty straps and carabiners.  The big plus here is you can use as many or as few bags as you need per anchor point - just carabiner them together.  And they are easy to relocate when necessary.  Wind direction change, tide coming in, whatever...

How to tie flying line to a carabiner??  I use a variation of slip knot

Fold the line back on itself

Form a loop

Pull the strands nearest the end through the loop, leaving the end free

Now clip all three loops onto the carabiner

The will hold fast  until you remove it from the carabiner.  To undo, pull on the single loop, allowing the double loops to come through from the other side of the knot - Voila!

Home made groung bag or bought? @KaoS

[KaoS]

47 minutes ago, Darren Tibbey said:

Home made ground bag or bought? @KaoS

Made these myself.  Each bag uses a piece of cordura 750mm x 1000mm. 

1. Hem along the two 750mm edges
2. Cut a 2700mm length of 25mm heavy nylon webbing, then sew to the outside of the bag to form straps/handles. Sew ALL the strap that touches the bag - don't skimp.

3. Fold the cordura in half (wrong side out) and sew the 500mm edge seams.  I sew a double row of parallel stitches for extra strength.
4. Turn bag right way out.  Done!

I use cordura because it is very abrasion resistant (and because I have some), but it isn't cheap.  Canvas or anything similar would be a pretty good substitute.
I also use heavy nylon webbing - you can buy it from China for about $40 including postage for a 20 yard roll.  Medium webbing just doesn't look or feel strong enough.

1 hour ago, Chook said:

Love your bag anchor idea Kevin!!!! 

It really sucks when I have to relocate, dig a hole for my second one and then change the lines over without the kite killing me. Usually means landing em if it's too greater distance to the new site.

Thanks for sharing. 

Yep, if you have enough bags, it's a good idea to set up a new anchor point before relocating your flying line.  Then unhook from the first anchor and walk it over to the new one.  You can even leave the kite and line attached to one bag, then move them by picking up the bag by the handles and walking it to the new location.  Then just click the carabiner onto the rest of the bags at the new location. Easy peasy

[Chook]

Awesome thanks for the overall sizing Kevin.

I'll get some stitched up over the weekend. (made from VERY heavy "grain bulkhead PVC tarpaulin" off cuts, that just happen to come my way for a few beer. It's even treated on one side to resist direct sunlight for 15 years.)

[Darren Tibbey]

Make sure you knock up a few extras @Chook for your eastern mates.?

[Chook]

Cheers @KaoS.

It's not hard to tell that I don't sew for a living.

It's a little bit bigger to carry my steel stakes and be able to fold the top over to wrap them for transport. Your a champ Kevin.

650kg webbing from 6mtr ratchet straps from our local Ag supplier (set of 4 x 6 mtr complete for $27.99) and is cheaper than buying it by the roll off my local fella and not knowing the strength.

Got 3 more "Kevin standard sized ones"  to sew up this arvo.

 

[KaoS]

Looking good @Chook

[Chook]

I tried my modified anchor system out last weekend in 16 knots of wind and it worked a teat with a big lifter and 3 laundry (10mtr Killer whale, 10mtr Panda and a 10mtr tiger) attached to its line. 

I could let out the 9m2 lifter to full height just by running the line through my fingers, using the red "figure of 8 descender".

The old grey seat belt I attached into the Reece hitch receiver of my Patrol using it's cross pin with the tongue removed. Worked well as when the wind changed I just rotated the vehicle by letting the hand brake off and they pulled the 2.5 ton Nissan backwards on the soft grass.

Kept it all tidy and made it really easy to retrieve it all when packing up in a strong sea breeze before dark, so I made a second setup today.

[Darren Tibbey]

Well done @Chook Your not just a pretty face.? Will need to make a video of it working.

[Chook]

Started sewing a heavy PVC gear bag to carry all that is required. I'll make up compartments internally to segregate/protect stuff.

I'm just using up old seatbelts for the webbing and grain stack covering PVC scrounged from "Cooperative Bulk Handling"