need advice kite and buggy

[Clis]

G'day, i'm new here and need some advice. My son and I have a flexifoil stacker we have been flying for years together since he was about 9 and now we would like to start with a buggy and a landboard. I need some help with picking a kite that we can both use for me in the buggy and him on the landboard. And I need some advice about what buggy I can go with, I have read here a little bit but I am not sure which way to go. I am trying to keep the price down so we can buy another kite sooner rather than later so we don't have to share all the time together.

[Jimmy22]

the bggies that stand out for me are peter lynn and sysmic S2 , probably PL 2nd hand if your on a budget. Kite for buggy and land board needs torque , 2nd hand a blade 4 or some sort of de-power kite . the land board needs those klkites the buggy can run with many other styles of kite. New the Ozone FLOW, HQ kites , frenzy 2011 , Peterlynn Arc. try before you buy...

[Goz]

Welcome to XK

Maybe some more details will help the guys help you.

Will you be flying on the coast or inland where the wind can be a bit lumpier?

Are you wanting to get a fixed bridle foil or a depowerable seeing as your son will be using it for landboarding as well?

Weight range of yourself and your son may also be handy when recommending a size.

Cheers,

Goz

[Nocando]

Welcome

Scope this out in for sale section

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=14660

[Spartan]

Hi Clis, Welcom.

For a good Cheap buggy go Peter Lynn.

For a Kite go depowerable, when the wind picks up you can halve the power of the kite by pulling the trim strap.

A good depower kite, I prefer the Ozone 9m Frenzy because of its low down grunt,

or you can also go HQ 9.5 montana.

[jhn.holgate]

Hey guys, we're advising someone to go from a Flexifoil stacker to a Blade or a Depower ??? Let's back the truck up a bit here - hell of a difference between a stacker and those kites not to mention the expense. I would certainly be browsing the for sale section for a Peter Lynn buggy or Flexifoil buggy - I think there's still a few for sale and in very good nic. For kites I'd be sticking with 3-4m low aspect fixed bridles for now - PL Hornet, Flexifoil Rage, HQ Beamer, Ozone Imp/Flow and the Zebra Checka/Z1 are superb value for money. Don't think you can go wrong with any of them and the differences between them are fairly subtle.

If you get hooked into buggying and Landboarding, chances are you'll end up with quite a few kites including depowers to cover the various wind ranges. Even better idea: sign up for the XK demo system and get your hands on a few of the demo kites.

Also, get in touch with your local group of flyers and meet up for some flying and information - whereabouts are you?

Cheers,

John

[BGKD]

The buggy thats not been mentioned here is the Zebra, this is an excellent cheap buggy as its basically a cheaper construction version of the Libra V-Max, insofar as it has the same geometry, same seat, same wheels, just a cheaper construction methodology.

The sysmic S2 is not really a beginners buggy, it has a cockpit thats designed to hold the pilot in place, and requires some manovering to get into, as opposed to the cockpits in the Peter Lynn, Zebra and Vmax, which you just sit in... definitely a bonus when you are new to buggying and need to sit down whilst flying a kite.... a skill that at first sounds easy, but believe me its very easy to get it wrong and find yourself getting unexpectedly dragged face first!

Initially its very easy to get swayed by the corrosion resistant benefits of stainless steel buggys, but they are not all they are cracked up to be, generally a Stainless Steel Buggy will fail from weld fatigue long before a Libra/Zebra mild steel/hot dipped galvanized buggy will rust.

When buying a buggy then you need to decide what you want to be doing in it, if you want to do tricks, jumping etc then you are probably best off looking at the Peter Lynn, otherwise if you are looking at just general cruising then I recommend the Libra and Zebras.... leave the Sysmic alone, its a great buggy, but as Ive already said, I dont think the cockpit is suitable for a beginner.

All these buggys mentioned can be found here

http://www.briskites.com.au/index.php?l ... _list&c=23

[Oooo]

hey mate it is best to start out with a fixed bridle kite now depending on your's and your sons weight this is a factor in kite choice if hes a light weight then not to big but if your like me and a bit bigger you will want to look at two kites now this sounds expensive but there are some great kites out there for under $200 bucks ( ie zebra checker in 3.4 meterat around $172 ) also (ozone flow starts at around $299 for a 2m2 ) then like others say go the second hand way or ring kite shops like Briskites and ask if they do package deals you may get a bargan some times you need to spend a bit extra we have a bloke here in Brisbane and he is in this boat as he dose not have a lot of kites and some times both want to fly and need the same kite so you can see what your up againts if you got any other questions ask as we all here like to help as best we can hope this helps mate

regards mike

[BGKD]

Hey guys, we're advising someone to go from a Flexifoil stacker to a Blade or a Depower ??? Let's back the truck up a bit here - hell of a difference between a stacker and those kites not to mention the expense. I would certainly be browsing the for sale section for a Peter Lynn buggy or Flexifoil buggy - I think there's still a few for sale and in very good nic. For kites I'd be sticking with 3-4m low aspect fixed bridles for now - PL Hornet, Flexifoil Rage, HQ Beamer, Ozone Imp/Flow and the Zebra Checka/Z1 are superb value for money. Don't think you can go wrong with any of them and the differences between them are fairly subtle.

If you get hooked into buggying and Landboarding, chances are you'll end up with quite a few kites including depowers to cover the various wind ranges. Even better idea: sign up for the XK demo system and get your hands on a few of the demo kites.

Also, get in touch with your local group of flyers and meet up for some flying and information - whereabouts are you?

Cheers,

John

Yup I concur talking about a blade or depower is just nuts, dont get a depower, get a fixed bridle, the reason for this is depowers require harnesses, which means WHEN you get into trouble you need to disconnect, whereas a fixed bridle can be flown with kite killers, so you just let go and are safe.

[Clis]

WOW AND WOW. Thank you for the advice, my son is saying he wants us to get a kite on a bar for him on the board. He has had some kitesurfing lessons last year and they had him fly a kite with a bar that he said was a depower? He had a harness on him and the kite was connected to this.

[BGKD]

WOW AND WOW. Thank you for the advice, my son is saying he wants us to get a kite on a bar for him on the board. He has had some kitesurfing lessons last year and they had him fly a kite with a bar that he said was a depower? He had a harness on him and the kite was connected to this.

You can fly fixed bridles on a bar, but they don't really fly as well as on handles

Remember with kite surfing when things go wrong you have a fairly soft landing in water, with land kiting you will hit dirt, for this reason the risks of learning with a depower and harness when kite surfing are far less than the risks on land..... please trust me on this point, last year I broke my back in three places from kite buggying

[.Joel]

Welcome to Extreme Kites!

Buggy you have quite a few options, if you want to cruise about the beach/park look for something with good back support it will make the ride much comfier and pleasurable.

I disagree with Brian, if you have been flying your Stacker for this long you most likely understand the wind window etc and there's no reason you can't go on to a depower. They give people learning to kitesurf less time on a trainer kite than you have had on your stacker before throwing them on to a depower. However if your son is 14 and has already flown a depower then I would go a smaller size (6m - 8m) initially, after this a larger one as your second kite or a fixed bridle. Seeing as it's for both of you he will have a much better time on his landboard on a depower opposed to a fixed bridle.

Recently I spent a week at Kingston, Devon (Sinbad's son) a 14 year old was there. I had him going on a depower with the landboard, then the buggy in less than an hour on an HQ Apex 3 5.0m, which I am in the middle of writing a review on and will be up later. He found the ability to depower the kite meant he was being dragged off his board less frequently. So if you and your son are adament about a depower go for a beginner, easy to use and forgiving model not something overly lifty or agressive and learn to fly it in lighter winds. Having flown your stacker for this long just be cautious and remember the wind window exists the same on a depower as the fixed bridle.

PS: You can also use your stacker in a buggy!

[Clis]

I am looking increasingly interested in the zebra buggy but you mentioned rust. There is a black version of this buggy that is painted, should this suffice?

[BGKD]

zebra buggys are hot dipped galvanised they wont rust, paint will help again

[JKS]

Hey Clis .... where are you at ?

[Slartibartfast]

Allow me to whole heartedly recommend the Zebra buggy. I went through the exact same deliberation my self a little over a year ago and finally settled on the Zebra, a choice I am now very glad I made.

My buddy and I now have 2 PL buggies and a Zebra between us and the Zebra is the clear favorite!

Both buggies are relatively well constructed. You know, there not lovingly caressed then clad in Italian leather or anything but they're both plenty solid enough. People will tell you that the Zebras seem cheaply constructed, which is true, but there still perfectly fine and will survive a reasonable pounding.

Comparing the differences:

The Zebra is significantly longer than the PL (meaning the rider sits more centrally) where as in the PL you're situated more over the rear axle. In fact I often end up with my arms/handles grazing the real wheel when in the PL buggy. The other noticeable difference that is immediately obvious is just how much you sit "inside" the Zebra as opposed to sitting "on top" the PL. On a Zebra the side rails come up fairly high over your hips (which is the norm for modern buggies) and this gives you much better purchase for holding down a side load. Most of the time you're traveling along in a bug you have the kite pulling you sideways and those high padded side rails truly are a godsend. The other advantage to high side rails is that the back of the seat ends up having much better support and I find I'm able to lean back into the seat far more in the Zebra than can be done in the PL. That being said though, many people will fit a custom back rest to there PL buggies which will alleviate this concern (in fact the custom backrests are no doubt even better) but even with a backrest a PL is never going to offer the side support the Zebra has. We don't have backrests fitted to either of our PL's but I can assure you there have been many times we have wished we did .

It's hard to find images showing the geometry of the two buggies but here are a couple I've been able to glean.

PL geometry

Zebra Geometry

Zebra Seat

In the second photo I'll just point out that the seat hasn't quite been fitted correctly. The rear most strap (just in front of that blue spade) is meant to be further back such that it's on the rear side of the bend in that side rail.

I'll also mention that the PL buggies we have are both "ST" buggies (as apposed to the more common "Comp II" or "XR+" buggies). The ST's are a lighter cheaper version of the Comp II/XR+ but the geometry is all but identical. The photo of the PL buggy above is actually a ST bug as well. The Comp II/XR+ have a fuller seat (like the Zebra) but the geometry is still the same. In fact we actually have a Comp II seat in one of out PL's and it doesn't really make any difference.

All this being said though, the PL will always be the buggy of choice for Free Style. Free Stylers spend much less time with the kite hauling there ass sideways and are far more concerned about weight and the ease with which a bug can be maneuvered in the air. In these respects the PL wins hands down, not only against it's similarly priced rival (the Zebra) but also against all those multi million dollar bugs the Zebra couldn't even hold a candle too.

So, unless your looking to get into freestyle I'd say there is no contest. In my books the Zebra simply wins hands down.

For more discussion checkout this tread.

[JKS]

Nice write up Slarti good info

The only thing I would disagree on is that Flexi's are the more common choice for a freestyler as opposed to PL's .... but that has little to do with the original question so I'll get my coat

[andy666]

great info and clearly defined pros and cons of each buggy. Exactly what a beginer is looking for

[spotter]

That really was a geat write up ont he buggies. I am in a similar situation down here in Hobart. I am using a PL Mk2/XR buggy and a mate of mine got the zebra. A couple of things that I have noticed with seeing both of these buggies coming out of the box when they arrived.

With the PL you will get the frame, wheels and seat. That is about it. You then need to get the padding seperatly if you want padding (suggest you do). There are a lot of "extra's" that you can buy for the PL.

The Zebra is a slightly cheeper buggy and it is not as polished. What I mean by that, is that the frame is not polised down to a shiny smooth bit of metal. What does that really matter? nothing really. The buggy comes with the frame, wheels, seat, padding and even a bit of non slip tape for the foot pegs. All this extra stuff for not much extra price.

I also like the seat a lot better in the Zebra. Also the other guy that owns it does not have a harness and finds the side rails good to rest on and gets rid of some of the feeling of being pulled out.

When I got my PL, the Zebra was not available at the time. Due to being someone that like crusing up and a down the beach rather than free style, if I had to buy a buggy again, it would be the Zebra.

Disclamer; (to keep people happy)

I am not supported by any shop or brand. These are my opions on the options.

[Jason]

Just to keep everybody in the loop.

The PL buggy now comes with siderail padding and splash guard as standard.

Also the Zebra is now available in black for those who want a slicker looking machine.

Jas

[spotter]

The PL buggy now comes with siderail padding and splash guard as standard.

Bugger... I really did buy a buggy to early!!!

[Clis]

Thank you for all the help fellas, I gave briskites a call and they have the zebra in stock in both the galvanised and powder coated black. My son and I will sit down this afternoon and finalise our decision together in regards to the kites.

[imjimbo]

welcome to xk mate

all the above info is worth taking in ..... just thought id add my bit...

i run a pl mk1 with the compxr seat and the sysmic s2. there was a comment about the s2 not being user friendly... not so .. yes it does lock you in around the thighs and hips but if you've got the kite skills down pat then the s2 is gold.. there long wide and stable.. well made and look the goods i only keep the pl for the quick after work flights as its small pulls apart easy and really light... the s2 is a lil pricey but the ride is worth it and they much better value than the libre equivalent .....