Naish Torch Beginner Kitesurf Kite or Not

[Steve]

Patrick Rebstock, a well known Naish team rider stayed with me for several weeks last summer, he is on the Naish kites design team, he designed the current chicken loop release. He told me, ok?

Have a nice day, hope its windy wherever you are!

[.Joel]

Patrick Rebstock, a well known Naish team rider stayed with me for several weeks last summer, he is on the Naish kites design team, he designed the current chicken loop release. He told me, ok?

That's cool, thanks!

Received a submission today from an overseas site visitor that mentioned the Octopus System, waiting on photos.

Regards,

.Joel

[Steve]

Patricks info was wrong?

Therefore I am wrong and therefore this will make some people happy, yay!

[Jason]

Patrick could be wrong?

Naish could have changed their mind back?

I really don't care.

A well known and probably the largest kite repairer in Oz, loves it, he recently told me it earns him a huge amount of money each year!

You posted it not him so that makes you wrong.

Who is this "well known" repairer?? I will make a note not to refer any business their way as it is obviously profiteering. As I have stated before repairs on Octopus kites take no longer overall than other one pump kites. Due to the zips in the struts I can access most repairs without even removing the bladders.

[Kamikuza]

There's only one guy here who uses a Torch, and he's the Asian doing tricks dangling from the bar champ. Mind you, I think he gets his kites for free ...

The more skillful guys are using Naish Cults and the rest are using FOne kites of some description.

Me, I'm learning on 19 & 15m Synergy's and a Flysurfer

[lawsonpipes]

Kamikuza, where abouts are you? You say taht you are learning on 19 and 15m. It musn't be wa. I am looking more at the 9m size mark. But what do you think of the synergy and flysurfers. What are they like when they hit the water, are they easy to get back up?

[Kamikuza]

Japan

I'm a big fattie so I need all the sail I can put into the sky - yet to have a successful day on the 15 but the 19 is the biz.

I got the foils mostly cos I'm a kook ... a lazy kook. I don't like pumping. And I like the idea of something different

A 19m arc is more like a 15m bow in my limited experience so far, but it's easier to fly the arc. Haven't much experience with relaunching the arc cos it hardly ever goes in the water! Autozenith is nice. When I have dropped them, they taco launch fairly easy. Requires more input that the bows I've used (sit and wait while kite slides to edge of window) but not difficult like my C-kite is. The FS - you just grab the rear lines and launch like a FB kite on handles!!! Too easy. I'm not 100% sure I'd want to be riding the FS some place I could end up on unfriendly shores or something though ... all that bridling and limited air retention could be messy, especially if it was getting washed around in surf.

The Synergy jumps like mad - very lifty and good float. The FS requires different technique but floats like you've got anti-gravity boots on I've got a 17m Speed 1.5 and was out last night in what the weather station tells me was 6 to 8 knots ... I spent a lot of time getting up, sinking, relaunching etc but in the 8 to 10 knot range (according to the forecast & my guess) the Speed would just take the fuck off and haul ass - my limited ability still let me go upwind further and faster than the locals! Park 'n' ride the apparent wind, baby!

Would I buy another bunch of closed cell foils? Mmm, maybe. If I had a tight short beach I wouldn't - they need a bit more space for setup and pre-fill ... but I think I'll always keep one (even if I sell the lot) simply for the kook-factor ...

[dafunk]

hi ya im not sure about the 5th safety on the torch .

i have a ozone sport 2008 its a 5 line kite but doesnt go to the 5th line for safety ?

its a great kite and i havent tried or practised the safety yet .

personally i like the below bar 5th safety and reluanch . [havent tried all the kites]

a little longer to set up though

[lawsonpipes]

haha - Japan - sounds to me like I couldn't live there, my kite won't be pulled out of the bag in less than 10 knots in Perth. I like a good seabreeze.

Yeah i was looking at getting a synergy a while back, cause I like the foils, from an engineering point of view, a much cleaner design, yet I haven't rulled it out. I certainly realize though that the small beach is an issue! Love a clear big beach a head of me!

Dafunk,

I am not familiar with the below bar idea, what is the difference, can you give me a bit of a run through on that - will certainly help me in picking the kite

Cheers guys

[dafunk]

your safty leash attaches to a line near the chicken loop ,the line then goes thru the bar to whatever line depowers the kite .

above bar can twist or tangle .and i find it more difficult to attach before luanch.

but i dont care as my ozone is good for me atm.

[lawsonpipes]

Ohh yeah, I know what you mean. I am still unfamiliar with the entire depower layout as I am only on the fixed bridle blade. I know that will be my biggest issue with the water kites, but I have the general idea

[dafunk]

i only know a little about fixed foils , and only handles !

and not much more re inflatables .hahaha .

its easy just be safe .

you would be 90% there with kite skills .

in wa there would be heaps of 2nd kites n gear avaiable

[lawsonpipes]

Yeah, I have been looking at the second hand market, being a student, money is tight... but that's life.

Yeah, my kite skills are alright, so I am not too worried about the whole how to fly stuff. So yeah, just got to get a kite and board. And spend a bit of time learning the ropes with guys on the beach. That's the best way I find to learn!

[dafunk]

just research the potential kites .

or ask here .

should be bargins atm the off season

[lawsonpipes]

so you reckon buy in the off season?? That has been my line of thinking too. Yeah extreme kites is great for ideas and info

[dafunk]

not just the off season .

when ever theres a bargin!

yes this is a great forum

i also learnt heaps with the help of XK

[Steve]

Ohh yeah, I know what you mean. I am still unfamiliar with the entire depower layout as I am only on the fixed bridle blade. I know that will be my biggest issue with the water kites, but I have the general idea

Its not going to be a very difficult transition. Since you already have kite skills, you will just find that the main differences are that the kites power lines are attached to you, and you need to learn to relax into that feeling. Being in the water helps to adjust to the feeling of being attached to a kite.

Steering is still left/right, but on a bar, and the bar can move in and out to control some or a lot of the power.

Now getting up and riding, thats where the challenge is!

Wakeboarding experience really helps.

Off season is when a lot of new or near new gear is available, general used gear from the public might get a bit cheaper, but you really need to know what you are buying, there are a lot of things to look for on a used kite, that can turn your purchase into a nightmare and a waste of time and money.

Once you know a bit about kitesurfing kites then I think its possible to buy used with more confidence that you are getting a good kite.

So the idea I'm suggesting is buy from a reputable source, buy new or near new ex demo, and get a lesson or two. Join your local State kitesurfing association too.

[lawsonpipes]

Hey Steve

Thanks for the valuable advice mate. When I was over in brisbane last, went and saw Jon up at Kitepower. And I had a bit of a look at the second hand stuff and what the deal was with buying second hand. I said I wanted to try on a harness - cause I knew that I would be needing one. Dad who used to do hang gliding said bugger it just buy it cause you know it fits. Mum wasn't so keen.

Dad asked Jon if there was a way to practice on the bar with the blade while harnessed in. Jon suggested the ozone turbo bar - think that was what it is called when the main lines go to the centre but it is all on a pulley system. So I have been spending a fair bit of time flying like that and it feels safe connected, suppose cause I know my kite and what not to do and my limit is with the wind. Yeah so that bar has been a great help!!!

Yeah, my holidays are coming up, one more exam to go, so I will spend a bit of time going and researching the kites down at the shops now that i will have time, yay! and get there opinion on WA winds and my experience... I am not going to just go and buy a second hand kite from anyone, I would have to know it was a safe good kite before I thought about it!!! Want to get a new one to - like you said

As far as lessons go, I was thinking one or two aswell - safety and all that would be handy, and spend time with fellas on the beach learning the ropes cause I have gathered most guys are happy to help which is great

but can you tell me a bit more about the kitesurfing association idea? I have seen a bit on the net about them but is it more of an insurance thing??

Cheers mate

sorry about the novel

[Steve]

Mate you sound like a really sensible kiter and I'm sure you will learn to kitesurf quickly and easily.

Drop over to see Darren Marshall when he is back in Perth, he has good used gear, but any of the people I have recommended will also steer you in the right direction. For lessons use the schools associated with Darren Marshall, Jason Lewis, or Kite Addiction.

Become a member of WAKSA, they are one of the most pro-active state kitesurfing associations in Oz, they run clinics and weekends, events etc. and they will be very helpful with advice on where to learn and meet other kitesurfers. Yes membership is also about insurance and adding your name and weight to the association, so that they can help keep beaches open and accessible to WA kiters/

[lawsonpipes]

Cheers mate,

Will certainly go and drop in and have a chat to those guys hey. And sounds to me like I will be joining WAKSA - the more beaches that the council doesn't close down the better!!!!

Have a good weekend too

[Enclave]

There would be a lot of better kites on the market for learning mate. Sure you can learn on the Torch, but there are just a lot of much easier and safer kites plus you need to get your head around the 5th line safety and relaunching. There are well known issues with the octopuss inflation system.

Don't let anyone tell you that the inflation system is great, they are only talking about it while their kite is holding air, once there is a problem its hard to work on, and the earlier versions were worse. Naish are dropping the octopus system for 2011 kites so you have to wonder why don't you?

My advice is to look for a bow/sle kite like a Slingy Rev, Cabrinha SB or SB IDS, Best Waroo 08 or 09, Ozone 09 Sport or LightXC, or Edge RX, Core GT, etc, etc, etc.

You will not outgrow any of these kites, and they are all well known proven performers with no known faults, wherabouts in WA are you located.?

As always very funny answer!

Can you tell me where you got this information about the octopus system (by the way, probably one of the best one pump system on the market)?

5th line safety and relaunching is very easy and if you learn on a C-Kite you might end up doing some real jumps and not just pulling the bar towards you and lift up your legs, then thinking you just jumped 20 meters...

If you can fly a land kite, get one lesson on the water and then go for the Torch!

Cheers

Jérôme

[lawsonpipes]

cheers mate