safety gear??

[Tianui]

Can anyone suggest a good combination of safety gear.

 

I fly with C quads (4.2, 6.3 and 8.5) and have a Reactor 8.3. Used when on my Peter Lynn ST comp and soon to arrive, new " Peter Lynn race buggy".

 

All four line stuff and as we are both getting pretty good at going fast, the loads on our arms and the duration of our rides are stating to take thier toll on our 40ish year old bodies. (My wrist and my mates elbows).

 

We both have our own problems in that I am a heavy set, over six foot, 117 kg gorrilla. (That could do with losing 20 kgs).

 

My buggy mate is almost half my size and as a result gets ejected out of the buggy to my great amusment on more occasions than he cares to remember. He's kind of stuck with my kite choice vs wind speed. (as most of the gear is mine).

 

Some days he has "the right stuff" and when the wind is pumping I make "lack of traction" an issue only he needs to deal with. Mind you the C Quad 8.5 in 20 plus knots very quickly made me come to terms with the kind of problems he has to overcome.

 

Any way, as we are yet to stap ourselves to either the buggy or use a harness attached to the kite we have to deal with considerable loads on our arms and now are at the point of either finding a way to control the kite at speed using our four line handles with a harness and "chicken hook/ plus a pully"?? or going for a bar set up and the loss of control that I beleive will be inherent in that compromise.

 

Barrie from StormRider in QLD suggested a "Slingshot Surefire Spreader Bar" But with what kind of combination I am not sure.

 

We are not really into jumping as speed is the focus for us. (And stonking power slides)!!!

 

Any Buggy nuts out there that have dealt with these issues ??

 

All suggestions would be welcome.

 

:confused:

[JKS]

Hey Tiauni,

I have had a few rides in the PL race when she was down in Brisbane. Barry was kind enough to demo it around the Brizvegas crew for a spell. It's not a bad buggy mate ... being a bigger lad you will like the seat . I found it a little twitcy once you got past about 40 ... but I didn;t have a lot of time in it myself (and I am buggy spoilt)

I dont fly C quads so will leave that for others to comment (cue Nigel)

If you decide to use a strop, make SURE you have a quick release set up that works under load. (Test it hanging in it)

[ATTACH]4538[/ATTACH]

The release shown in the second picture are prone to jamming/failing

[ATTACH]4539[/ATTACH]

You will nead a harness, preferably a seat one for the buggy. Its best to have a harness with a spreader bar as Barry has mentioned.

Here is some previous banter about safety gear

http://www.extremekites.com.au/forums/showthread.php?t=8682&highlight=strop

http://www.extremekites.com.au/forums/showthread.php?t=8802&highlight=strop

I.M.H.O. The most important safety gear (besides experience) is a good helmet.

http://www.extremekites.com.au/forums/showthread.php?t=9373&highlight=lets+get+serious+helmets

Open face is ok for cruisy days, but if your after speed ... get a full face. This road will lead you to knee and elbow pads ... gloves ... body armour etc etc .. all $ relative.

http://www.extremekites.com.au/forums/showthread.php?t=9293&highlight=santa

Hope that helps ya a little mate

Marty

[nigel]

Welcome Tianui,

Another C-Quad user.

I've got 8 C-Qauds, 1.4, 2.2, 3.2, 4.2, 6.3, and the 8.5.

Don't know how you can hang onto an 8.5m C-Quad in 20+ knots!!

It lifts me out of the buggy at 8 knots, but then I am only 65kg.

There are two ways to harness in with C-Quads.

The first is a back strap, it is a padded strap that goes around your back and attaches to the back of the handles.

This takes the load off the arms, but the pull point can be high, as it's up at your arm pits.

I love this system for freestyling the buggy with C-Quads.

The second system is a QR (quick release) and a pully.

See here: http://www.extremekites.com.au/gallery/members/Joel/equipment/ronstan_assembled.JPG.html

Get your self a bit of rope (strop) to go through the pully and onto the back of each handle.

You can now fly with just one hand and infact two fingers, as the pully should be resistance free (keep it clean).

This system does require you to get a harness.

The biggest problem with any form of harness, is that you often don't have time to pull the QR before you get ripped out of the buggy.

To release the back strap, all you do is let go of the handles, and swan dive (arms up and towards the kite).

This will cause the back strap to fly off, and the kite too.

I have to ask but are you using the propper C-Quad handles???

These have the rear harness attachment line about an inch down from the power line.

If the lines are level, then the handles will not work if you use either of the above systems.

For foils these handles are fine, but C-Quads need some constant brake, so the different attachment point for the harness automaticly pulls on a little brake for you.

No brake input and the C-Quad will luff every time.

Like all kites, once you have them set up on either system, the kite should sit hands free above your head.

If not you'll need to adjust the lines so it does.

Now your problem of being ripped out of the buggy.

First thing it sounds like your doing the classic mistake of having the kite above your head.

Don't put the kite above your head!

Keep the kite low in the window, brace against the side rail and you shouldn't get pulled out.

Also sounds like your way over powered!!

If your going sideways all the time, then your scrubbing off speed.

Move to a smaller kite, you should find you'll go quicker, and it's easier on the body.

One little trick I have found is that when I launch a fixed bridle kite (up the middle of the window) it should drag you.

If it only drags you a metre, then it will be under powered, if it drags you 7+ metres then your over powered.

About 3-5m is perfect, powered up yet not over powered.

As for even more speed, have a look for some race kites.

These are not too easy to fly, but are highly strung so you get maximum power and speed.

[Tianui]

Thanks very much JKS and Nigel.

Big efforts and lots of information.

Really appreciate your help.

Regards Tianui

[jdhot]

Some good info there info Nige,

I've taken a lot on board, as I been a serious candidate for a Volvo crash test dummy lately ........ and it does hurt!!!!

I need some airbags built in.

Thanks

JD

[Tianui]

ps Nigel

After going over your post with my mate, lots of pieces of the puzzle fell into place. Having only flown my Peel 3.6, C Quad 4.2, 6.3, 8.5 and my Reactor 8.3. All traction kites.

I could never understand how kite surfers could just let go of their kites and they just hung there without crashing. Seems the bar setups keep things all pretty level.

The special CQuad handles i have never heard of. Makes good sense though. (where can I get some)??

Until I considered your comments, I never realised how I have been applying "a little brake all the time" without thinking about it.

Having not flown other kites can you give me an idea how much more speed could be gained by a race kite as opposed to my Reactor 8.3 or either of the big CQuads?

By the way I love my CQuads but don't quite know why. What were they built for? Schitzo beasts they are, but I love their maneuverability.

Please tell me why I love them so???

The 8.5 in 20 plus was exaggeration at it's worst. The 6.3 in 18 is probably more accurately the point at which my 117 kg's starts "crying for my mommy"!!!

Overpowered is definatly accurate. Getting pulled out of the buggy really has only happened to me once and to my much lighter mate heaps!

Poor bugger is stuck with whatever I have out at the time so the almost 60kg difference means he is overpowered most of the time. However we have only been ejected after having the rear end come around 180 degrees and failing to let go.

We do have the kites off to the side but when all has been lost and we have been ripped around the kite reinflates right in the center of the window and heads up overhead with your predicted result.

So it's not like we don't know where to put the kite, more like the kite goes there by itself when were still trying to figure out why were suddenly looking back from where we just left!!

Most of this request for advice has really been directed towards my mates drama's and getting a smaller kite out will probly solve most of them. As I am really looking to take a bit of load off the arms as opposed to "Ejection problems".

However once the new PL Race buggy arrives and the salt lakes dry out I intend to see if I really can hang onto an 8.5 CQuad in 20 plus! I'll be sure happy to have a quick release in place then!!

Thanks again for your input fella's

[nigel]

Ahh a Peel.

I had two of those as well.

A 2.5m (3.6 wing span) and 5m.

Bars are completely different.

They are designed for de-power kites, not fixed bridle.

C-Quad handles, Try Barrie at: http://www.stormriderkites.com.au/

He's the importer for PL gear.

They will have to be ordered I'm guessing, as they are not common items.

Why do you like C-Quads???

I was hoping you could tell me!!

I just know that all the other guys around, hate me when I beat them in a race with an 11 year old kite design.

They are a simple design, and have proved great performance.

Most people can't fly them, as they don't understand to pull a little brake on.

If you get to fly a Revolution kite (http://www.revkites.com/) they fly the same as a C-Quad but with no pull, except for the bigger ones!

You might find more confidence with a smaller kite, and as I said earlier, less abuse on the body.

It will solve your over poweredness.

Especially your mates ejection problems.

You will find the C-Quads not as quick as the race kites.

Most race kites are very high aspect (very wide and thin), agaist the C-Quad which is lower aspect.

The aspect ratio is just one reason the race kites are quicker.

They will not turn as fast as a C-Quad (nothing else but a Rev does) but will and can produce more speed once they get a chance to be wound up.

Over short distances, you can't see much difference, but on long runs, you will find the race kites tend to be faster.

How much depends on how powered they are, and how good the pilot is.

You might want to try putting the 8.5 C-Quad against the 8.3 Reactor in the same winds over the same course and see if one is faster with a GPS.

As for an 8.5 C-Quad in 20 knots, yes you can do it...... but you will be going down wind at a very fast rate.

Don't expect to pull it up in a hurry!!

Or pull it up at all!!

If your happy with the Reactor, you or your friend might want to get the smaller ones.

Or if your wanting a race kite, there might be one comming from PL.

One of their riders in Europe has been using the protos in the races over there.

If and when we might get them is another matter?

Here's a pic of the C-Quad handles, note the long lines out the back where the strop or back strap goes, these sit about an inch down from the power lines.

The rear lines were long so you could mount a back strap, the back strap has no adjustment so it is done at the handles.

If these get in the way, you can trim them, but don't totally remove them.

Here's a pic of the back strap too.