Kite Kayaking

[nailimexam]

Hi, I am looking to help power my 22 foot double sea kayak(s) with a kite. I think a closed cell foil kite would be best.

Most of the kite sold for kayaking are single line open cell foil sleds. While the are nice and simple, they are unmanuverable, and the angle with respect to the boat cannot be ajusted; it goes where the wind blows. In a situation in which the wind picks up unexpectedly, the only option might be to cut the line and lose the kit Also, going up wind would be next to impossible. Furthermore it may become an anchor when it hits the water.

The advantage of a closed cell-foil quad line kite is the ability to control the angle, water relaunch, and total depower(FDS) if necessary.

Any suggestions? My boats are each about 22ft long and 30 in wide. I may also add outriggers/daggar board which would drasticly increase stability.

Any thoughts on apropriate size?

[nigel]

You'll need a keel if you want to go any dirrection but down wind.

There are only a few closed cell foil kites on the market, Flysurfer is one that springs to mind.

A Peter Lynn ARC is also a closed cell foil, but I think it would be too hard to launch from a boat.

Your only going to need the smaller ones in the range. No need for an 18m monster!

Do you intend to attach the kite to the boat? Or to yourself?

Are you able to let the partly inflated kite drift down wind while unwinding lines?

Don't forget that you can't have any tangles, as the results might be full power, or a fudged launch.

Can you handle the kites power?

These kites are designed to kite surf with.

Toppling over or being pulled clear of the boat is a risk that you'll have to consider.

For the cost of one of these kites, you might find it easier and cheaper to just use a mast and sail.

"In a situation in which the wind picks up unexpectedly, the only option might be to cut the line and lose the kit"

NO, all you have to do is pull the kite down.

As you are drifting down wind, you are pulling yourself more down wind as you pull the line in, really your just making yourself go faster down wind as you pull it in.

Don't slow the boat down, your only making it harder to pull the kite in.

So what if you lose the kite?

Did you really want to be out of control, off course, and about to hit some object?

Is the kite just for afternoon trips, or are you planning some long distance epic trip?

Have a look at www.kiteboat.com

And www.lynnkitesailing.co.nz

The problem with using kites on the water to power a boat is how commited you are? $$$$

To get the best performance, you'll have to mod your boat, otherwise, it's just the single string kite for you.

There really is no middle ground, it's all or nothing.

Good luck.

[nailimexam]

The setup I am considering is this:

Kites: 12m mastair, 9m speedair (Moded to quad-line with additional fifth line FDS) (I was told these kites would work best as they are more traction based than newer kites and don't have the lift. (Which ofcourse I dont want.)

Kayaks: Necky Nootka Outfitter(22-ft, about 430lbs (USA) with both passengers), Seaward Passat(22-ft) (about 410lbs with both passengers)

When to fly: Calm days when the waves are not up. 5-15mph winds. (afernoon trips for now)

Set-up:

Both boats are very seaworthy. But if going off of down wind, I could add outriggers for a trimaran setup or connect the boats together (maybe 10 ft apart) to make a catamaran. (Could a keel be as simple as cutting two boards into fin shapes and connecting the tops of the boards with a perpendicular third board and fitting this over the center of the boat?).

As far as being able to let the kite drift down wind while letting out the lines: Do you think I am able? This would work well in mild conditions right?

I could also just launch from the shore then launch the boat with the kite in the air right?

I think I would have to modify my boats more for sailing. I would definitely have to add outriggers and a keel then. Also, I would have to cut a mast hole in the middle of my Kevlar boat (Need to buy special equipement for that). I would think that the tipping forces in sailing would be greater that kiting, all of the power from the kite goes to a point relatively low to the kayak, wheras mast and sail is like a giant lever.

I am considering either harnessing the kite to me or the boat deck. If I get into trouble I can just activate the FDS or a quick release system.

Thanks for your comments.

[goshen]

Hi Nails,

I'm no expert in kite-boating, but I think a 9 / 12m Closed cell foil is NOT the way to approach this! I think you underestimate the power of these kites!

I guess it depends on what your end goal is - so if it's just afternoon sailing (and you want serious speed), then yes - you can just launch the kite on land, then head out to sea, and you could use larger kites for that. Go down this road however, you'll need to spend weeks flying the kite on water / land without your boat, just to get used to how it opperates - don't expect you can just take it out and off you go. If you're after something more for trips, or touring - then you want something smaller, and much simpler.

There's an old 5m Maniac (Flysurfer) kite in the shop here that might be great to start with, and get a feel for practicalities of using a close-cell foil. It's not worth very much now (I could sell it to you though); or you could 'hire' it for a few weeks. It's on short lines (18m I think), but still has some good power.

You may need a lesson on how to use it correctly; but it's only a small kite, so you could probably figure it out. Contact me if you're interested.

All the best,

Goshen

[nigel]

I think I would have to modify my boats more for sailing. I would definitely have to add outriggers and a keel then. Also, I would have to cut a mast hole in the middle of my Kevlar boat (Need to buy special equipement for that). I would think that the tipping forces in sailing would be greater that kiting, all of the power from the kite goes to a point relatively low to the kayak, wheras mast and sail is like a giant lever.

Kite or sail, you'll still need a keel of some sort!!!

Otherwise all you'll do is drift down wind without any controll.

Pointless spending any money on expensive water kites when your current little kite will do the same job.

You don't cut kevlar or carbon fibre, you file it!!

Drill a small pilot hole for the file, and file to the desired size.

Drilling will cut (rip) and split the fibres, use a file or dremel with grinding attachment.

[JKS]

[attach]1643[/attach]

[squidrunmegzy28]

marty, is that one that you have built? i like the idea alot!!

[nigel]

No, old PL Toy from around 15+ years ago.

The new kitecat is about 10 generations further on from it.

Kitecat here: http://www.lynnkitesailing.co.nz/

Watch the interesting vid of it in action!!

See if you can spot the Quad Surfer as well

What you see there (above) is infact where the first buggy came from!!

PL made it and wanted to use it at a kite festival, they told him there was a lake next to the festival.

So Peter turned up wanting to use it, the lake was infact a few km's, not next to.

So he put some wheels on it, and hey presto, the first buggy!!

[SHEPPO3930]

you will need some form of sideways bite in the form of a dagger board or similar. and somthing to stop the tipping action from a kite pulling from the side, maybe an outrigger.

[JKS]

marty, is that one that you have built? i like the idea alot!!

No mate I just thought it handy for you to see .... pictures tell 1000 words

Happy Days