cave_raver Posted June 28, 2004 Author Report Posted June 28, 2004 John Cool link! Saw the pics and you make it look not much more difficult than the ply job. Just one question, is the exterior of the board fibreglassed or painted? Basically how do you finish the board or do you just leave it as bare foam? CR Quote
john malone Posted June 28, 2004 Report Posted June 28, 2004 John Cool link! Saw the pics and you make it look not much more difficult than the ply job. Just one question, is the exterior of the board fibreglassed or painted? Basically how do you finish the board or do you just leave it as bare foam? CR was out on the Hotrod sunday with my 11g2 - loving it even more every time i go on it - the best board i have been on ever , the layup we use has got some board flex that irons out the nasty chop so you can go faaaaaster we use SP115 clear expoxy so we can have clear boards - but i painted this one with car paint our layup is - core - 5mm 100kgm foam, 200g glass, 5mm foam , 200g glass, 5mm foam this gets your rockered blank we then rap this up in 2 layers of 200g glass both sides - bit of finishing - paint or leave clear ( ssp115 has UV protecters in it ) we use the full vacuume bagging method but you can hand layup if you wish for a bit of a weight cost to the board . foam we use- http://www.homeblown.co.uk cost about £30 for 3 sheets ( they send out samples for you to play with ) glass and resin we use- http://www.marineware.com 5kg's sp115 is about £55 , enough for 2 boards glass - RE210D is £1.60 a mtr ( plus vat ) so for about £100 you can make a good glass board any one wanting us to make a Foam rockered blank on our Rockertable cost is about £70 , email me at johnmalone25@hotmail.com for more info hope this helps john http://www.performancefoils.co.uk pic of hotrod proto 140 at http://groups.msn.com/KiteSportsCorner/hotrodcustomkiteboarding.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=264 Quote
cave_raver Posted June 28, 2004 Author Report Posted June 28, 2004 Nice one, cheers for the sources. CR Quote
carlos_climber Posted June 28, 2004 Report Posted June 28, 2004 Why do you glass between layers ? Quote
john malone Posted June 28, 2004 Report Posted June 28, 2004 Why do you glass between layers ? we get stronger boards like this , foam just glued together on its own hasn't got any strength , when they come out of the vacuum bag they have got a nice spring /flex , then 2 more layers rapped round the blank each side and they come out stiffer but you can still bend it a bit Eric at EH kiteboards in Caberete has been doing it this way for years !! click erics site - http://www.kiteboardbuilder.com/ to see the full thing on plyfoam board building Quote
carlos_climber Posted June 28, 2004 Report Posted June 28, 2004 The reason I asked is that I've heard and seen conflicting reports....saw a vid posted up on kite forum.com http://www.dckiteboards.com/.... just using shaped block of foam. And that the inherent strength/stiffness is in the number of layers of glass on the outside. Next board will probably be a foam layup Quote
bushflyer Posted June 29, 2004 Report Posted June 29, 2004 glassing between the layers spreads the loads through the board better, in stead of just through the top and bottom skins. if just glassed on the outside the core only provides floatation, and any damage to a skin surface weakens the whole structure and fails a lot more easily. dunno if a stiff board is better than a flexible one though. Quote
leomurray Posted July 11, 2004 Report Posted July 11, 2004 cool thread, think i'm going to have a go at making a foam/ glass board. Where do you get the kit for vacuum bagging? can you just get a bag and plug in your mums dyson? also, are people making their own finns? cheers, Leo Quote
ned1710 Posted July 11, 2004 Report Posted July 11, 2004 cool thread, think i'm going to have a go at making a foam/ glass board. Where do you get the kit for vacuum bagging? can you just get a bag and plug in your mums dyson? also, are people making their own finns? cheers, LeoHi leomurray You could try that but i doubt it would produce enough suction to reduce the pressure enough to be that effective. Also you will need to leave it turned on untill the resin hase gone off. This is likely to be at least 5 or 6 hours if you are curing at ambient temperature. I don't know how pleased your mum would be if you burned out her vacuum cleaner. Vacuum pumps are around £350 for a small one like I used at uni. you could try e-bay if you are serious there are often quite a few on there. A good composites supplier is Scott Badder. There is one in Fareham (tel 01489 589838). They can supply all the stuff you need. As well as the vacuum bagging material you will need a few extra things- Bleeder/breather cloth- this allowes the vacuum pressure to equalize accross the bag and absorb any excess resin. perforated release film- This goes between the board and the bleeder/breather cloth. It prevents the bleeder/breather from sticking to the board after the resin cures. The perforations allow excess resin to escape. You will also need tacky tape. It is a soft double sided tape that is used to seal the bag and iny pipes you stick through it. i would have liked to use a vac bag when I made my board but I could not use the uni facilites. I found mine worked ok using a simple hand lay-up though. I am still waiting to try mine out. I am still a bit dubious about taking my blade in the water. To be honest the fins i made are a bit crappy. I used ply wood and planed the profile. I would like to make a mould and make some composite ones. Will post if I have any luck. I need to get hold of a pattern. Hope this is of some help Ned Quote
john malone Posted July 12, 2004 Report Posted July 12, 2004 cool thread, think i'm going to have a go at making a foam/ glass board. Where do you get the kit for vacuum bagging? can you just get a bag and plug in your mums dyson? also, are people making their own finns? cheers, Leo secrets - secrets we use fridge commpresseers for the vacumme - you can find these easy as someone will be throwing a fridge frezzer out somewhere , you want the the largest one you can find , all you do is cut the pipes that come out from the top of the pump and run !!! while the gas comes out ( killing the ozone !! ) then wip it out by undoing a few bolts/clips , you have to bi-pass the stat switch so it runs all day ( some electric experiance here needed ) , i have a few in the workshop as spares , but are still on my first one , runns like a dream supper quite and does the job . suction pipe we use camping gas pipe like you have on a gas bbq , bag conecter you can get from marienware , we use gas fittings for the on/off and vacumme bleep valves - picks of it at http://groups.msn.com/KiteSportsCorner/hotrodcustomkiteboarding.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=235 vacume bag - i use a roll of poly thats they use for pakaging , cut off what you need and seal the ends with duck tape from http://www.nobisco.co.uk you want the 18" 500g clear lft ( lay flat tube ) price £26 plus post for this you get mtrs and mtrs ( 18ks worth ) we use 2 layers of peel ply on top of the glass/ resin when it goes in the bag - one as a peel ply and one as a breather cloth - others use a bed sheet as a breather cloth but you will spend all day trying to get the bugger off after the resin has cured as it goes ROCK HARD haha - peel ply comes off much easer . as good pleace to see the stuff in photos etc is http://www.fiberglasssupply.com/ inthe usa - click the catalog bit some of this adds to the cost of the build but once you have the pipes/ pump you can use it again and again - ROD and I started with £100 each to get our stuff - with that we made a board each - that worked better than our shop ones !!!! hope this helps - john malone HOTROD CUSTOMS KITEBOARDS - made in essex for essex haha Quote
leomurray Posted July 12, 2004 Report Posted July 12, 2004 John, do you put any glass/epoxy on the outsside, or just paint the foam? Quote
cave_raver Posted July 12, 2004 Author Report Posted July 12, 2004 I think he says that he just has epoxy on it and paints on top. CR John, do you put any glass/epoxy on the outsside, or just paint the foam? Quote
cave_raver Posted July 12, 2004 Author Report Posted July 12, 2004 Just to let you all know that Sunset took my pl job out the other weekend to show me that it's my skill and not the board that's lacking. The views and improvements for mark 3 ply are as follows:- Apparently it's a bit stiff and so this makes if a little hard (bit like having no suspension) through the chop. I think the mark three ply will have no centre middle 20cm x 160cm strengthener. It tends to smack into the waves a bit due to the only 3cm curve at the front. I think I will keep the majority of the board with the minimal 3cm rocker and then the final six inches will be more extreme, perhaps 6cm? Looking at the foam composite mentioned on this thread, it seems that the ends are more severe. It goes up wind REALLY well! So chuffed! All I need to do now is to stay up longer so that I can prove these comments to myself Keep your board ideas coming as I'm certainly learning a few things as well as hopefully helping out others CR Quote
sunset Posted July 12, 2004 Report Posted July 12, 2004 Hi yes comments on Cave Ravers ply job first get some decent straps so I don't cut my feet to shreds but the board is a windward flying machine which holds its edge well. The down side is it is a little stiff and has given my dentist an hour of fun plus it is heavy. As to the shape It is generally ok but needs more lift in the ends to stop it acting as a submarine when you hit a wave slightly wrong. This board and properly many other homemade jobs go to show that the Bull sh*t and rip-off prices do not need to be paid by Joe Blogs and you will still have fun. Quote
leomurray Posted July 12, 2004 Report Posted July 12, 2004 Had a look at neds board yesterday, it looks good. think i'm going to have a crack a foam board and vacuum bag it. any one know what sort of size/capacity pump you need? Quote
john malone Posted July 13, 2004 Report Posted July 13, 2004 Had a look at neds board yesterday, it looks good. think i'm going to have a crack a foam board and vacuum bag it. any one know what sort of size/capacity pump you need? you want one that sucks slow but at high presure - all day long , your dysons are no good for this !! fridge pumps will do the job , kiteboards don't take up much area to these work fine . this is what they look like --- http://www.paragoncode.com/shop/vacuum_pump/ Quote
8015 Posted July 23, 2004 Report Posted July 23, 2004 MkI just bit the dust, broke in two directly under the back foot as I was starting in around 18mph. MkII will be 12mm instead of 9mm, same dimensions because I was getting on so well with MkI. Tomorrows forecast looks good too, so I'm going to have to try and borrow a board as I don't have time to make one before then (being as how the plywood shop is shut - might have to raid the skip in the street in the morning though and see if theres any wood worth having in it....). JIM Quote
8015 Posted July 25, 2004 Report Posted July 25, 2004 Plywood boards rock! 9am saturday, head to B&Q for a sheet of 12mm. The 8x4 looks better quality than the small sheets so take it to the cutting desk and ask the nice man to cut it accross 1700 from one end and then 2 cuts 400 from the edge - resukt 2 x 1700 x 400 blanks, 1 x 420(ish)x1700 blank and a large offcut. Drove out to my mates boss's workshop, cut the end curves on the bandsaw and used the disk sander to smooth them off. One blank went in the vice and half an hour of planing and surforming later had rounded rails (still not convinced such a thin board needs a hard edge, but will try on the next one). Laid the remains of my old board on top and drilled through the strap holes - why measure? Apply 1 coat of Ronseal quick drying stuff (walnut coloured - it looks like it's cut from a piano!), and half an hour later head towards the beach. Applied most of a second coat at the beach but there was sand blowing everywhere. In fact it was almost too windy but my mate had a 7.1 LEI he hadn't used for ages so we eventually set it up and by about 5pm I was riding my MkII board! Sanded it down after and stuck some epoxy putty where a bit has soaked a bit of water up and swollen, and then applied 2 more generous coats of the miracle ronseal stuff. Out riding it today, going pretty well when I had enough wind. The ronseal isn't good enough as some more areas have swollen, not to mention that it strips off pretty quick when you keep grinding the sand bars with the rail..... Anyway, it did the job perfectly - I went from having nothing to riding it the same day and have had at least one more days use out of it! Also I have 2 spares, next weeks project is going to be making hard rails on the wider board and coating it in something more waterproof (epoxy probably, may tape the rails with glass for added abrasion resistance). One last thing - rocker! The first boardI tried and failed to build a littel rocker in. Over time I noticed some, but Iwasn't sure if this was down to how we squeezed it in the car or if riding it had caused this. With the new board being stiffer it can't go down the outside and be pushed in my the door, it has to go down the middle with my mates glass board. After 2 sessions it already has very noticeable rocker - apparantly riding the boards gives them all they need (maybe because this one isn't waterproof and has soaked up a bit??? The old one was waterproof and took longer to develop rocker). The sheet of ply cost me £17 and is enough for 3 170x40 ish board (and maybe a 120 or 2 if I get good enough), the woodstain was £4.50 so all up I've only spent around a tenner on the MkII board (reused straps), but admittedly with the ronseal not providing adequate protection against being immersed in seawater (it was rainproof within 30 mins) I'm probably not going to get many more sessions before it completely delaminates under me. I doubt if Mk III is going to cost more than £30 even if I epoxy and glass it. JIM Quote
cave_raver Posted July 26, 2004 Author Report Posted July 26, 2004 I agree Boater, sounds like yours is working well and at a fraction of the cost. We will convert the world to plywood boards! CR Quote
coulsonrobert Posted July 27, 2004 Report Posted July 27, 2004 I'm just starting my first home made board. The cunning plan is to laminate up 3 board-shaped sheets of 3mm marine ply (using epoxy) in a rocker table (i've put in too much rocker on purpose to allow for spring back). The table was designed to give a long, flattish section through the centre section and lifted tips. By itself this won't be strong or stiff enough, so after shaping the rails (nice and sharp!) and installing some ply fins (glass/epoxy fillets and bit of glass tape supporting some ply fins made up from offcuts from the main board lamination) i'll be covering the top and bottom with a layer of mono-axial carbon fibre and a layer of cross-weave glass cloth, with a length of glass tape around the edge. Peel ply on top of this should give a uniform thickness of epoxy, hence a fair but rough surface. To finish, an epoxy/microballoon filler scraped over the whole surface and into any holes followed by a good sand (aiming to go down to 1200 grit wet and dry) and a spray paint (2-pack epoxy-polyurethane boat paint-magic stuff) should see it ready. Might invest in some deck pads if the price is reasonable, and I'm hoping to butcher the old windsurfer for some footstraps (mounted through the entire board into captive nuts which I'll have remembered to put under the glass/carbon laminate!). When finished, I'm hoping i'll be left with a strong, stiff, thin (only 10mm thick) board which should only weigh a few kilos. I'll keep the thread posted, if anyone's interested...... Currently I've got the initial ply lamination going off. The next questions is, 4 fins or 6. I think I'll go the whole shebang on that one as it'll **** of my mate victor who was disappointed when his shiny new brunotti only had 4 fins. poor lad. Quote
shrimpo Posted July 28, 2004 Report Posted July 28, 2004 Coulsonrobert Cheep foot pads can be made from camping mat, close cell foam, cost about £5 for a mat, and you can get about 5 pairs from it, just use double sided tape to stick it on with. Shrimpo Quote
leomurray Posted July 28, 2004 Report Posted July 28, 2004 hi rob, (empty your inbox!) i've got into this board building game too! just finished my rocker table. i'm planning to do a foam/carbon job with home grown carbon/epoxy fins. why are you using ply and carbon, if you're using carbon+epoxy, there is no need to have such a heavy core! if you laminate with carbon, the carbon will be taking all the stress, so the ply would be redundent. your board may also end up too stiff! when you lay it all p are you planning to vacuum bag it or just pile a load of weight on top? Leo Quote
coulsonrobert Posted July 28, 2004 Report Posted July 28, 2004 hi rob, (empty your inbox!) i've got into this board building game too! just finished my rocker table. i'm planning to do a foam/carbon job with home grown carbon/epoxy fins. why are you using ply and carbon, if you're using carbon+epoxy, there is no need to have such a heavy core! if you laminate with carbon, the carbon will be taking all the stress, so the ply would be redundent. your board may also end up too stiff! when you lay it all p are you planning to vacuum bag it or just pile a load of weight on top? Leo Too stiff? Didn't think that was possible .... Problem was I didn't know where to get the foam (plus i'm on a tight wallet and time schedule). I laid up the ply blank in the table yesterday, today i've been shaping and using the offcuts to make some fins (6 fins, look the shebang). Not going to do any vaccum packing-spoke to a bloke in the know and sounds a right sod. if you used a peel ply (nylon weaved stuff) on top of your final epoxy coat (i;m doing two layers of carbon and one glass all wetted out then peel plyed), you're left with a uniformly thick layer of epoxy on the surface. Smooth in some microballoon/epoxy filler to this surface and have a mother sand and you should end up with something as good as vacuum packed. well that's the theory-will let you know how i do. My board's not looking too great at the mo as the core didn't spring back as much as i'd anticipated and i've got sh it loads of rocker at the tips. should do the job though. As for weight i think this one'll be much the same as my curver 164 (this one's 150). Got enough ply left to do a 125 if i have any spare carbon..... Let me know how thing's go, hope the job's going ok. Rupert said your description of it kept him amused - "It's sh1t!") Cheers mate, Rob Quote
coulsonrobert Posted July 28, 2004 Report Posted July 28, 2004 Coulsonrobert Cheep foot pads can be made from camping mat, close cell foam, cost about £5 for a mat, and you can get about 5 pairs from it, just use double sided tape to stick it on with. ShrimpoWon't double sided tape come off in the water? Quote
cave_raver Posted July 28, 2004 Author Report Posted July 28, 2004 I used that white woodglue stuff 'stronger than the wood itself' Once it's dry it'd waterproof. CR Quote
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