Ozone Method

[jdhot]

I wish....But I bet you will, you can twist words all you want, anyone can read what was actually written, and your quibbling over definitions is always a sign of a weak argument.

I have better things to do than sit here and nit pick every word,

but credibility comes from trying things ... have you actually flown a Method

[BGKD]

I have better things to do than sit here and nit pick every word,

but credibility comes from trying things ... have you actually flown a Method

Yet you are still nit picking

I don't need to fly it, I have seen the price of it, and read the reviews that directly compare it to kites I have flown, and whilst it doesn't impart as much information as flying it myself, it tells me enough, ie that this kite isn't worth wasting my time with as it fails my purchase criteria..... in so far that I don't need to buy an expensive underpowered kite.

I dare say Ill fly one when the opportunity comes by, but I wont go out of my way to do so, there are far better value kites out there that have much greater interest to me.

[Jimmy22]

wow i missed a bit... i wish i were listed as a team rider . its a bit tough being in the worst of both camps .

at the end of the day i guess over time when the dust settles people will try one or not by choice and work out if they like it ?

i was a bit surprised Ozone didnt call the kite suitable for beginners as i think that its one of its better points, in fact id say better for beginners than the flow unless your tractoring up a snowy hill

[JKS]

How would a method compare to a Beamer ?

Quality ,..... flight .... longevity

I have always found the beamer to be very friendly to beginners and reasonably priced.

I have one that is 5 years old and looks/stinks of dead fish.

Still flies like a lazer pointer

[nigel]

I have one that is 5 years old and looks/stinks of dead fish.

Don't talk about your kids like that!

A nice bath of velvet pure soap will/might fix the looks and stink.

My Beamer 1.8 (Mk1) has aged well, still goes even though the fabric is a little soft.

Now prone to luffing, and even has fold marks where it gets put away.

It also smokes 2m Samurai's for breakfast. Sorry Joe, and Ozone.

My Twister 5.6 (Mk1) also smokes Jonh's 6.5 Method.

See Zak, he's got longer arms to prove it. Hope your arm's aren't too sore Zak.

[jhn.holgate]

How would a method compare to a Beamer ?

Quality ,..... flight .... longevity

Been a year since I've flown my 4m Beamer ....exactly a year - the last time I flew it was a couple days after Labour Day at Sandy Point! So my comparison is gonna be a little rusty. Under 15 knots the Beamer is gonna kick the Method's butt, after that, however I think the Method will come on song while the Beamer becomes a bit of a handful. The method has speed and top end, the beamer has got grunt and bottom end. Sorry, that's pretty subjective!! Actually I think the 5m Method up against a 4m Beamer would be a closer comparison. method cuts upwind pretty well although I can't ever say I had trouble with the beamer either.

My Beamers' have lasted well - they're certainly put together ok. The Method looks and feels more high tech - mesh panels over fewer openings - 3 A's and 3 B's per side for bridles. I would like more bridles on the Method for my peace of mind - I simply have to trust that the Ozone engineers know what they're doing with so few bridles - Check back with me in a year or two!!

The Method feels more 'exciting' to fly (subjectivity again!!) - faster - you just want to 'fang it' It will overfly occasionally without a little brake. The Beamer is more sedate but still plenty agile particularly on the turbo bar.

The wind ranges are very different on the two kites..I think (for me) maybe 10-15 knots on the 4m Beamer....not sure. Definitely 14 knots upward on the Method 4m - don't know the top end for me yet.

Hardly a good comparison....just a few impressions of the two...

edit: Yes, Nigel's 5.6m Twister pulled away from me and when I flew it for a very short time, it did feel more powerful. Wouldn't say I got 'smoked' though - the Vapor did that....

[jdhot]

Duplicated below

[jdhot]

there are far better value kites out there that have much greater interest to me.

It boils down to price, value for money .... understandable I do it myself

so we bag out a kite due to it's price - set by the dealers, which most people here have a major grudge against one

There's a thing called the internet that if you shop around you can find better deals and increased Century II prices also

The majority of people bagging the kite have never flown one that I'm aware of

This kite smoked that kite, this kite left that kite for dead etc, etc

Please take no offence John to my next comments your a great bloke

but I've been told that John likes to cruise more than race, (it comes with time John)

It's an intermediate kite been compared to race kite, understandable different sizes

the Method's that John flies are on a Turbo Bar and may not give the full benefit of on handles and what the kite can do

More to say later but have to go do a job now, so bring the shite fire on

How would a method compare to a Beamer ?

Quality ,..... flight .... longevity

Quality, it's Ozone .. don't think much has to be said about that

Flight, the last couple of weeks I have put guys that have never flown a kite straight on them with no problem at all, very user friendly kite.

Longevity, well that will remain to be seen with the new bridling/internal bracing

JD

[BGKD]

corrected due to misreading price from poorly made website!!!

Who the hell is bagging it, pointing out that the claims of power some people have made are clearly erroneous and that there are cheaper more powerful kites out there isnt bagging, it stating fact.

And Im glad you pointed out the benefit of shopping over the internet, because it means we finally have something we can agree on....

Just picked a UK kite shop at random for the sole reason that it sells both Centurys and Methods

lets look at the 4.5M Century and the 5M method, both kite only

UK prices are

Century II GBP301.95

Method GBP334.39

!!!!! WTF, hey JD you may be onto something here, those prices are pretty comparable, I may have to appologise.....oh hang on, Im not finished yet.....

Century II ( Briskites ) AU$519 (exchange rate of 1.72)

Method (red kite shop) AU$649 (exchange rate of 1.95)

WOW!!!!!! JD your right, its not the kite thats the problem, its the shop your buying it from!

Given that there is a current GPB/AUD exchange rate of 1.66 its clear that there is absolutely no benefit buying the Century, but if you buy the Method from the UK then you can save up to $100, maybe even more if you find a shop that can sell it to you without charging VAT

btw heres the kiteshop I used for reference

https://www.powerkitecentre.com/kites/t ... cat_4.html

over to you JD, nit pick away!

[jdhot]

over to you JD, nit pick away!

There's no point nit picking Brian, as Ozone kites will never get a far go because of the prejudice/grudge against a certain individual.

This is detrimental for the sport and this forum, as things can't be disgust fairly without the prejudice

you can all argue all you like but it's the TRUTH !!!! ..... if it comes from a red shop, it's gotta be crap.

The XK meet at Stockton was a prime example the Method's and other Ozone kites were there for people to try and be able to discuss fairly. There were only 2 people who tried it BobM who tries anything and 1 other who static flew it for a couple of minutes .... even though they were offered to all, it was extremely obvious by body language and comments it came from the wrong shop so it has to be laced with poison.

As for the amount of power the Method develops and I say develops, it possibly lacks some low end grunt, but work it to speed and there's plenty, it's the characteristic of the kite and many others .... and I only say it possibly lacks because I've only been able to try them in less than ideal conditions. Hopefully the rains will ease soon and give us here a far go.

There's no point continuing this discussion further due to the biasness

much can be said about the Manta3, nothing has been said about your opinions when it was out on the beach (as in the vid's) it was only crapped on how badly it performed inland, that may have been the pilot also needing more time to come to grips with the kite, the feel and the bar pressure/kite relationship as a few have tried it inland here and never had a problem, but whether it would be fairly commented on who know's it comes from the red shop

Same can be said about having to say the "Red Shop" because if I mention the shop name the post will be deleted, and I'm totally aware of forum policies and I'll adhere to the "Red Shop" protocol

JD

Edited for incorrect terminology "racism" .... this is not a racist forum .... I think

[BGKD]

Ah right... so your promoting a certain store and not a particular brand of kite, so I guess your argument that you can buy cheaper abroad was a bit like this

Since I have no awareness of the race of any particular individual then there is clearly no racism involved here, that sounds like a feeble attempt at misdirection.

There are apparently very good reasons why certain shops are so disliked, and generally they appear to be all centered on the attitudes and business practices of a single individual, and consequently its only within the power of that individual to change it... whinging about how unfair it all is is just plain childish, the smart thing to do would be to stop doing what pisses so many people off!

The problem with certain brands is because there are different shops with exclusivity deals and different pricing attitudes, most kites fall into an intelligent price band, and when you look at the European and American pricing then you can see that pricing at work, no store has any real exclusivity, brands compete on an intelligent basis, however, over here in Australia that process has gotten broken, at least one shop is abusing their exclusivity position (something that cant happen in Europe and USA) and the markup on Flexifoil and Ozone are completely out of whack with other brands, consequently these brands are harder to intelligently justify, in actuality their value has been compromised.

Myself, I'm getting very tired of being accused of bias, when all I ever argue is value, and I do this unilaterally (ask joel when I start bagging him about his pathological iDoitcy), as a consumer I would welcome a situation where no particular store had exclusivity, and the brands were allowed to compete intelligently, since thats not the case then I find that the arguments between brands and pricing policy are hard to separate.

As for the Manta Issue, all I ever said was that on the day it did not perform as well as other cheaper kites on the day and only said that after another individual asked my direct opinion, plus if you actually read the thread in question, you will see that I have even offered others the opportunity to fly the kite and indeed others have done so...... which brings me to a very interesting question..... how come its me who is apparently so anti Ozone, has no problem getting Ozone kites into the hands of the general public without any inducements of any kind, when you, who is sponsored to do just this, and by your own confession have failed?

[jhn.holgate]

hmmmm... I think we're losing track of this being about a kite. A very nice kite, I might add. Perhaps Ozone should not have said:

My top speeds were about the same as the Yakuza

(that's from the Ozone site) because as far as I can tell, it's some way behind. And that's probably my only gripe - with the advertising. At the 3 1/2 minute mark in my Labour Day vid you can see the Montana 9.5 and Vapor 4.5 go past me and I was doing 62kph ish. However, I should point out that I was comfortable enough with the kite to do it one handed and film with the other and I would rather that than the extra few kph's if it meant I lost any stability.

It's stable, easy to fly, well mannered and very friendly. And fast enough - if not quite as advertised.

We fly kites. It's a hell of a lot of fun. Let's not make it tooo serious!

[jdhot]

Once again Brian it's about Price, Shop and Exclusivity

I'm not going to dispute any of your points - competition is great for the consumer

but when that interferes with just plain comments on kites it's detrimental.

As for getting kites into the hands of people, there's no problem here in the last couple of weeks I put many different brand kites into the hands of many raw beginners, I get satisfaction from watching the fun there having. However it is a shame that there's not as many land kiters in the Sydney and greater region as there is in QLD & VIC, this could be due to the fact of many local councils

I can only offer experienced kiters kites to try the latest technology, but can't force it into there hands.

hmmmm... I think we're losing track of this being about a kite. A very nice kite, I might add

I did try to point this out earlier John but was told " ........ more BS ........"

However, I should point out that I was comfortable enough with the kite to do it one handed and film with the other and I would rather that than the extra few kph's if it meant I lost any stability.

John I would also like to point out, that I have done a few vid's as well, singled handed and even though I maybe flying kites that would compete with other buggiers and even out run them, but you can't do the 2 well

It's stable, easy to fly, well mannered and very friendly. And fast enough

Totally agreed

if not quite as advertised.

Never had the ideal conditions to try it out, but will agree if they compare it to a Yak it seems odd

We fly kites. It's a hell of a lot of fun. Let's not make it tooo serious!

[.Joel]

The only thing detrimental to this forum is the flow of BS from yourself that goes unchecked, lets address it here:

The XK meet at Stockton was a prime example the Method's and other Ozone kites were there for people to try and be able to discuss fairly. There were only 2 people who tried it BobM who tries anything and 1 other who static flew it for a couple of minutes .... even though they were offered to all, it was extremely obvious by body language and comments it came from the wrong shop so it has to be laced with poison.

As for the amount of power the Method develops and I say develops, it possibly lacks some low end grunt, but work it to speed and there's plenty, it's the characteristic of the kite and many others .... and I only say it possibly lacks because I've only been able to try them in less than ideal conditions. Hopefully the rains will ease soon and give us here a far go.

So let me get this straight, I saw you had the kites at Stockton, the conditions for these kites were IDEAL, however you chose not to fly them, and now you're having a go at everyone else for not flying them whilst at the same time lieing and saying "only been able to try them in less than ideal conditions."

Isn't it funny how if nobody else flys them then it's all got to do with agenda and "body language." However you had the same ideal conditions, the same beach, and you yourself chose not to fly them, then you lie and say that you haven't had "ideal" conditions to fly them at the same time trying to attack Brian's credibility.

Pot, Kettle, Black.

[jdhot]

A good point taken Joel about ideal conditions

but I did leave them there for people to try, some did, I have them all the time and can use them whenever

and hopefully there will be another ideal time soon, I do also have a huge preference for de-powers and the kite that I flew, I've flown once and really wanted to try it. However, with respect I didn't see you jumping when I offered them out to try

new technology, latest kite, ideal conditions .... maybe next time eh, so you could do a review for XK News

So we could have a cuppa out of the same kettle, mines white no sugars, I'm sweet enough

JD

[.Joel]

I do also have a huge preference for de-powers and the kite that I flew, I've flown once and really wanted to try it.

So it's all good for you to have a preference, but anyone else is unacceptable and comes down to "racism" ? Right.

However, with respect I didn't see you jumping when I offered them out to try new technology, latest kite, ideal conditions .... maybe next time eh, so you could do a review for XK News

Why? So I can receive the same treatment you give Brian when factual statements are made? Been there.

Perhaps this is the exact reason nobody wanted to try the kites.

[jhn.holgate]

Perhaps this is the exact reason nobody wanted to try the kites.

Is THAT why I kept getting chased down the beach by an angry mob???

[jdhot]

Will add - in my defence also

I did loose confidence in my ability with stropped in fixed bridles whilst learning after a few good spankings, stupidity of over-confidence big Blade IV's up in ridiculous winds. Then brought my first de-power, my Manta1 10m and loved the chicken effect - bar in for power, chicken out and have been that way for nearly 2 yrs now in the buggy.

I've recently started trying fixed bridles again, but if you think I'm going to strop in, in front of witness's (that just love to take the piss out) and make a big mistake and spank myself, you'll have to think again. Plus would have it done the Method justice if I took it easy and was smoked by others, it would have just be crapped on.

Maybe next time, when I have that Pot, Kettle and preference for White

Notice that you've posted prior Joel, will reply to them later

[Goz]

Same can be said about having to say the "Red Shop" because if I mention the shop name the post will be deleted, and I'm totally aware of forum policies and I'll adhere to the "Red Shop" protocol

JD

FYI

IT isn't policy to delete threads that mention the Red Shop as you put it JD, and never has been. However there are advertising guidelines that must be adhered to, which some have been trying very hard to circumvent. As Kitepower is no longer an advertiser as such posts will be removed, and that is called a "fair go" that applies to them as well as everyone else.

After all, you were the one who said "I wouldn't spend a cent on this site." You got what you wished for

[jdhot]

Now I'm confused

" It isn't policy to delete threads that mention Kitesomething or the Red Shop as you put it JD, and never has been."

but I can't mention that a friend of mine was going to Kitesomething / Red Shop to buy some Method kites

because it breaches advertising protocol

[JKS]

There's no point nit picking Brian, as Ozone kites will never get a far go because of the racism/grudge against a certain individual.

This is detrimental for the sport and this forum, as things can't be disgust fairly without the prejudice

you can all argue all you like but it's the TRUTH !!!! ..... if it comes from a red shop, it's gotta be crap.

Complete BS JD .... I am in AWE

1. Racism is a cracker choice of a description dude Lemme give you a couple of more accurate ones .... dealing with the consequences of your actions .... maikng a rod for your own back .... calling a spade a spade. But racism ..... you gotta be kidding

2. It is only detrimental for the sport when promoters spend the majority of their time and energy in being only interested in the $ ...... otherwise this is simply healthy debate... and entertaining .. watch the hit counter

3. The argument will continue while the BS continues to flow ..... I think the truth is that you have change your spots and that's ok. It's your choice .... you no longer prech on the forum what you used to preach in person... and as a result you are copping a bit of 1 yourself.

,,,,,,,, blah blah blah .....

There's no point continuing this discussion further due to the biasness

much can be said about the Manta3, nothing has been said about your opinions when it was out on the beach (as in the vid's) it was only crapped on how badly it performed inland, that may have been the pilot also needing more time to come to grips with the kite, the feel and the bar pressure/kite relationship as a few have tried it inland here and never had a problem, but whether it would be fairly commented on who know's it comes from the red shop

More BS .... you been on the cookies again mate

1. The Manta was not crapped on as to how bad it flew insland .... it was 'observed and stated' as to how bad it flew insland.... and that was 'crap' Go read the thread again instead of speaking diatribe. The only thing that was crapped on was that even blind freddy could see it was just a one eyed pimp up. Oh .... and I got pretty crapped on

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=14662 but then that's what people like me get used to.

2. The Manta did get a fair and unbias review .... I GAVE IT ... did you forget that bit ? Your showing red shirted selective memory here mr grudgy bottom

3. It's a lot less about the red shop vs the blue shop and more about BS vs no BS than you realize.

Same can be said about having to say the "Red Shop" because if I mention the shop name the post will be deleted, and I'm totally aware of forum policies and I'll adhere to the "Red Shop" protocol

JD

kitepower kitepower kitepower ..... if my post gets deleted .... i'll believe ya

[Goz]

Basically you have spent your time the last month running in to other threads, name dropping kites and shops, in topics where they are completely unrelated. Then coming back to your habitat threads, and reporting anyone else's post that you don't agree with or complaining about it publicly.

but I can't mention that a friend of mine was going to Kitesomething / Red Shop to buy some Method kites

because it breaches advertising protocol

You are a shop rider / affiliate, your sponsor does not advertise here, you attempt to promote them your post will be removed. Hopefully none of this is unclear to you.

[jdhot]

After all, you were the one who said "I wouldn't spend a cent on this site." You got what you wished for

Could reply to that, but it's obvious

I will however publicly apologise (I did apologise to an individual) for my bad taste comment. I was to caught up in the Flyin Fool crap.

I've got nothing better to do, it's a lousy rainy day in Syd

and XK is entertaining and gotta keep you blokes on your toes

JD

PS, Marty haven't read the rest of your post but racism AGREED wrong word, must be because I live in the Cronulla region and we're all racist here it was world news

PSS, Goz - Clear mate

PSS pls no more post give me 5 to catch up

[jdhot]

OK Firstly

Goz, I have never reported a posted

in and out of other threads, maybe the Qld vid .... Marty rolled up in an Ozone kite, which I assumed and maybe shouldn't have was taking the piss out of somebody about Luvin there Manta ... if so it was meant purely as a joke and was not intended to pimp.

Marty

lovin' ur comments (in a good way.. so it's taken right) let me read your post again before replying

[jdhot]

This is going to take hours to nit pick and I know I'll have more posts to deal with when completed

maybe this thread should be split as it has gone way past "Method Kite" .... call it JD's rant, The Red Shop B!tch whatever but is it far for people who may wish to purely read about a kite, as this has gone way past it, I know I'll never win, I'll be just beating into submission

To Start the nit pick

Complete BS JD .... I am in AWE

1. Racism is a cracker choice of a description dude Lemme give you a couple of more accurate ones .... dealing with the consequences of your actions .... maikng a rod for your own back .... calling a spade a spade. But racism ..... you gotta be kidding

Very poor choice of word's but I'm good at that .... remember I'm JD racist from Cronulla area

2. It is only detrimental for the sport when promoters spend the majority of their time and energy in being only interested in the $ ...... otherwise this is simply healthy debate... and entertaining .. watch the hit counter

C'mon Marty, isn't every promoter interested in the $ .... in any sport, they wouldn't be running a business otherwise.

The red shop/Troy has organised many events for kiters ... and even prior to been happy to stand by the red shop, I've attended many events and been able to try Ozones latest gear and never once felt pressured to buy anything, just the opposite been made very welcome and appreciated that people have made the effort to attend and made such events GREAT TIMES and that's how it should be and maybe not discriminated against because there a red shop involved. It's all about the fun

Yes, debate is very healthy and entertaining as you say ... it's passing my bored Sunday arvo away

3. The argument will continue while the BS continues to flow ..... I think the truth is that you have change your spots and that's ok. It's your choice .... you no longer prech on the forum what you used to preach in person... and as a result you are copping a bit of 1 yourself.

Possibly, but can't 100% agree - there is prejudice against a red shop and can't be denied

reasons why could be countless and started well before I joined this forum. That's the right of every individual (unless Joel corrects me of our 'Rights' ) but it's when this prejudice overflows into what could be factual commenting that's detrimental ie; Cost, Shop etc. If your happy with a kite, it performs the way you want and like - does cost matter (leaving out exclusivity rights), competition is healthy, but been in business myself, it's not always the shop. 3 Major National Plumbing Suppliers have tried to put me out of business many times for discounting products, I've been subjected to restriction of trade, price increases. There's a lot of things that go on behind the scene that the general public aren't aware of, but back on course again. If your not happy from a supplier/shop, simple don't buy from them, but try not to bring that experience here ... make it factual ....

More BS .... you been on the cookies again mate

Not of recent and should pass in future

1. The Manta was not crapped on as to how bad it flew insland .... it was 'observed and stated' as to how bad it flew insland.... and that was 'crap' Go read the thread again instead of speaking diatribe. The only thing that was crapped on was that even blind freddy could see it was just a one eyed pimp up. Oh .... and I got pretty crapped on

Just curious was there only 1 flier that day on the Manta, because I found it very difficult to fly until I become tuned into the bar pressure/kite relationship as I pointed out before, maybe more time flying it is required. I can state from fact that everyone at 7 Mile beach (seabreezes) when the Montana 4 demo was on trial was very difficult for people to fly on a beach (the wind was low) and most wouldn't touch it with a 10' pole, but I preserved as I believed what people were sayin on XK (could have been biased) and eventually I tuned into the light bar pressure and managed it quite well, but not my style of kite. I don't recall bagging it out because people couldn't manage it, it wasn't the kite.

but then that's what people like me get used to.

and I'm finding myself, thank God for the gym and broadening my shoulders

2. The Manta did get a fair and unbias review .... I GAVE IT ... did you forget that bit ? Your showing red shirted selective memory here mr grudgy bottom

Honestly don't recall reading it, but that could be too many years of cookies memory, not red shirted

3. It's a lot less about the red shop vs the blue shop and more about BS vs no BS than you realize.

That will be the debate that goes on much longer than this thread, it really depends from where you sit on the fence

kitepower kitepower kitepower ..... if my post gets deleted .... i'll believe ya