Stockton Beach - Permits/Consent Required

[lickedysplit_au]

It is now a requirement of the NSW DECC (Dept of Environment and Climate Change) that ANY wind propelled vehicle or vessel using Stockton beach have the appropriate concents and approvals for their activity. This includes Kite Buggies, Kite LandBoards, Kite Surfers, BloKarts and other Land Yachts.

I hear you ask "Which permit and how do I get it??"

Well here's the catch, you can't get one yet. There is still alot of work to be done to achieve what we and the DECC require, full details are still being worked out but I can say I have had some extreemly positive discussions with the Dept. over the last few days. I will be looking for someone from each disipline for assistance. If anyone would like to assist please contact me via pm or email ASAP.

If anyone is planning a trip to Stockton for kiting before the above details are finalised drop me a message and I will forward you the appropriate contact details for the DECC. Better to confirm with them or risk being told to leave the beach.

Please note that this is definately a positive thing and none of our actions have bought this forward. It is all about the safty of all beach goers. We currently have the DECC on side, understanding and willing. In the end this will make events and meets on the Stockton safer and more organised for us, the general public and the confused weekend 4X4 drivers.

I will keep everyone updated with progress.

The above poll will help provide information to the DECC as to the numbers of kiters they could expect on the beach each year. Voting is anonymous. If you have visited this thread please vote.

[schmik]

The NSW DECC (Dept of Environment and Climate Change), aka fcuking idiot greenies, can kiss my ass.

WTF are they thinking?

How the F is kitesurfing, in the WATER, any of their fcuking business.

QUAD bikes are ok? 4wds are ok, motor bikes.... BUT kites and buggies? What about all the horses that trot up and down and leave their non native species sh1t everywhere.

Get a grip.

Oh and let me guess???? the permit will cost money.

The greenies won't be happy until all peple are dead.... they should help the cause by all committing suicide.

mike

[JKS]

Are they looking at regulating all beach users Troy ... or just the wind powered type ?

Albeit a little spirited, Schmick does have a point

Marty

[lickedysplit_au]

The NSW DECC (Dept of Environment and Climate Change), aka fcuking idiot greenies, can kiss my ass.

WTF are they thinking?

How the F is kitesurfing, in the WATER, any of their fcuking business.

QUAD bikes are ok? 4wds are ok, motor bikes.... BUT kites and buggies? What about all the horses that trot up and down and leave their non native species sh1t everywhere.

Get a grip.

Oh and let me guess???? the permit will cost money.

The greenies won't be happy until all peple are dead.... they should help the cause by all committing suicide.

mike

Mike,

I hear you dude but I am only passing on info I have.

DECC are the regulating authority on the beach and national parks, they have juristiction to the Low water mark. Beyond that it is the business or the Maritime Services, the authority that the DECC has also been in contact with in relation to this. I am unsure of the Maritimes requirements as far as Kite Surfing goes or where it becomes DECC juristiction (ie. launching/landing, kiting in high tide above the low tide mark) but thats why I am looking for someone experienced in each disipline as to try and hit all the nails with the one hammer.

Unregistered Quads and Trail Bikes are actually not allowed to run freely over the beach or dunes. They are restricted to an area at the south of the beach. Due to many accidents and deaths occuring due to misuse it was only a matter of time before regulations were policed. Unfortunately this will effect all users and not only those that do the wrong thing.

As for the horses or more so trotters (again classed as a vehicle) I believe another officer was dealing with that today.

As I said I hear what your saying Mike but I don't think standing upto an authority that we have on side already is the way to go. I haven't heard anything yet about costs involved if any, this is more about them knowing what we are doing, the risks involved and any requirements we or they may have to fulfill.

[Dave Shepp]

Do we still need a park pass as well or is that only if you drive your vehicle onto the sand?

Is this for the whole beach or just the sacred burial marsh/swamp?

I'd want to see them stopping and handing out tickets to the dirtbikes and such(Drunk4wder's) before I'll stop to recieve one!!!

[schmik]

I certainly can not get involved in dealing with this because I will not be capable of playing nicely with the DECC.

The whole thing is just too big brother for me. As far as i am concerned they do not have the rights to police my actions on an expanse of land that large. 4wds are allowed and HAVE killed people on stockton (but the greenies like that!) so I will take it upon myself to kite further up the beach where the 4wds are allowed. Common sense would have it i am safer than a 4wd (and a kiter has never killed anyone).

As at this stage i would have payed to have my 4wd on the beach (fair enough as they tear the place up and the money collected pays for the damage) so i am NOT paying twice. Kite activites are about as "tread lightly" as they come.

Although I would love to see some DECC official DRIVE up to me and try to argue that his 4wd is safer and has less impact than a landboard. And if all else fails i will unhook, and as him to "hold this for a minute". Problem solved.

I agree that we do not need to wage war on them but they want to regulate us and we are urged to bend over and take it politely. The first course of action should be a campaign of highlighting how rediculas they are being.

Should we be insured, YES

should we kite in a responsible and SAFE manner, YES

should we allow ourselves to be pushed around? NO

A bike is vehicle, a scooter is a vehicle, should these need permits? And these things are used in high traffic areas all over the country. FFS stockton is like desert.

mike

[lickedysplit_au]

Mike,

So far they have mentioned nothing about us having to pay for the privelage, nothing about restricting our use of the beach. It has been put in to the words we need "Consent" for our activites.

Stockton beach is Crown Land and as you are allowed to drive registered vehicles on Stockton Beach it is somehow actually considered a Road Way. The way it was put to me was, if you are allowed to fly your kite buggy down the pacific hwy then you are allowed on Stockton beach. Last time I checked my buggy isn't registered for NSW road use but I damn can't wait to get this consent (lets hope the pacific hwy is included )

I wouldn't say by any means that these guys are trying to push us around, conversations so far as mentioned have been positive with no dictating taking place. The guy I am dealing with at the DECC is more than reasonable and is seeking as much input from us as possible as to make correct decisions. This is not the fun police telling us to pack up and go home, something to be remembered.

As our sport grows regulation is something we all are going to have to deal with, everywhere not just Stockton. I see it as - we can work with these guys and prosper or we can fight regulation and risk total bans like the recent bans I heard about in the parks in the Rockdale Shire.

@ Dave - Apparently No Vehicles of any kind are allowed in the Sacred Worimi Land. I am unsure where that begins and ends but I do have a map of the area on it's way to me. Over the back country there is also apparently alot of Privately Owned Land also which are no go zones. Another thing to remember that the tourist operators also have purchaced permits to be in area's that they occupy and have conditional registrations for vehicles not road registered (ie. Quads).

[schmik]

So far they have mentioned nothing about us having to pay for the privelage, nothing about restricting our use of the beach. It has been put in to the words we need "Consent" for our activites.

Stockton beach is Crown Land and as you are allowed to drive registered vehicles on Stockton Beach it is somehow actually considered a Road Way. The way it was put to me was, if you are allowed to fly your kite buggy down the pacific hwy then you are allowed on Stockton beach. Last time I checked my buggy isn't registered for NSW road use but I damn can't wait to get this consent (lets hope the pacific hwy is included )

.

I object their version of consent if that means a permit. I object to the idea of it too. IMO i don't need their permission and am offended by the fact that they think i should have to ask them.

Roadway.......... with no line markings.... where pedestrians share the 'road' with cars... and horses. And you can lay a towels down and sunbathe.... yeah, just like the pacific highway. Again, COMMON SENSE!

Do these people wear a clown nose and funny shoes when they tell these jokes?

mike

[JKS]

Troy, were any permits required for the Mayday event ?

There was a 'fair' bit of heated discussion in the wrap up to Kitetober about this very situation happening. I was just wondering if all the 'official' channels were pursued when planning Mayday, and if they were ... perhaps they tipped off the latest situation.

I understand your frustrations Schmick .... Stockton is such a VAST place, it's sheer physical size and multitude of uses make it impossible to lump users into categories, especially motorcars

The most memorable 'image' I have in my head from our Kitetober trip was one of beach user madness. To escape to the Dunes was a choice of safety as much as enjoyment. Where were the rangers patrolling the mad 4wd's with drunks riding on the bonnets ? or the trailbikes ... the horse races ... the busses that stopped in the middle of the beach and spilled dozens of tourists who didn't even look left/right before running to the water.

Bugger me ... now you have me cranky at them !!!!

Bloody greenies

[lickedysplit_au]

Hate to be the bringer of the bad newz Mike but as I said I am only passing on information I have recieved. If you would like the details I am happy to pass them on and you are free to make the same enquires I have.

I hope to work with these guys and keep us going on the beach, if you have any other methods or idea's to get around this then lets definately look into it.

[schmik]

As i said.... it's best I don't deal with them. And, i am not shooting you. I am pissed at these silly DECC-heads.

IMO, they are idiots, so if THEY allow me to kite there and something does happen, can i sue them instead of using my AKSA insurance?

mike

[lickedysplit_au]

@ Marty, permittions were granted from the same authority for MayDay. As I originally posted, nothing we have done was a lead up to this happening. Quite simply regulations on Stockton beach are being policed due to the very things happening you mention above and unfortunately it affects us too. The regulation has always been there, nobody has previously enforced it. I haven't mentioned anything on SeaBreeze but the BloKarters are in the same boat.

There has been talks regarding making parts of the beach no 4X4 zones where kiting is clearly marked and or organised amongst other things. Perhaps I should take a step back, save the effort and just let kiting get banned on Stockton??

[JKS]

Same from me too Troy, I am not baggin ya efforts ..... merely asking questions.

Us QLD folk do like to stick our noses in

Marty

[milko]

I live at Anna bay (northern end of Stockton) and i kite there year round.. apart from when you guys hold your functions ie: kiteober & mayday the most kiters i have ever seen here is about 6.. i kite here most days by myself or with one other. anyone who knows Birubi will know it faces directly south so it is not a good spot for the summer sea breezes when most the holiday makers are around.. I will tell you as a local. FEAR NOT. this is a joke. when the Worimi people took over the land rights of Stockton beach they brought out a whole bunch of new rules which i continue to break every day of my life. its a joke. I Take my dogs onto the beach almost every day and the NPW will pull up and say " you know those dogs are spose to be on a leed brudda" yeah no worries mate.. but i have never been fined.. earlier this year they caught me with a fraudulent beach permit. ( i took the date off with metho and wrote a new date in but i didn't realise that the colour of the sticker had changed.) they just told me to get a new one.. I still use that same permit to this day.. basically all i am saying is they may make this rule but they will never police it.. so don't worry.

[Goz]

If the money they collect is going to go toward them being able to enforce the rules and keep the hoon element under control I wouldn't have a problem in paying a small fee to be able to kite on the beach and dunes of Stockton even though I may only get down there once a year tops.

If it's just another government money grab and we get nothing for it I can't see that it would benefit anyone other than those collecting the fees. Be a shame if they decide to over charge for such a permit and loose out on the tourist dollars from kiting events being held there.

[lickedysplit_au]

Sorry guys when I posted this thread I was more interested in gaining support for keeping the authorities on side and us on the beach rather than opinions as to why or why not these people have a right to govern the land we are lucky enough to play on.

Regardless of the mentality here it certainly looks as though this is the way the DECC is going to go on this, we can either respect any desicion they make or we can rebel and run the risk of ruining it for everyone.

[sinbad]

Troy from past experience what you are doing is the right thing to do.

At the moment its not banned and your at the table negotiating on ground rules with them, plus you can negotiate conditions of the permit re association membership offering insurance.

You also should get in touch with NSWKSA (AKSA) as there very used to dealing with these matters and should be able to offer you good advice and maybe send somebody there to a meeting with you.

Guys forget the bullshit re "where going to fight where not putting up with this attitude" negotiate with them show them you are approachable and act as a uniform voice for all the kiters there,

Other wise they will ban you, then its 10 times harder to get it passed to allow you again.

To put one more damper on it as of January this year it is now a lot easier for local councils to enforce fines and on the spot confiscation of equipment, as the courts have now approved it. Where as before they could only threaten, now they act and issue on the spot fines confiscation of equipment until fines are payed. Which are enforced in the courts.

[JKS]

Troy ... Sorry .. WTF for ??

To think you wouldn't have my support is narrow minded ... I was having a dig at the 'concept' of having to have a permit to kite while a drunk hoon speeds past dodging hoards of tourists.

If a system is coming ... it's coming

A discussion forum is just that ... we discuss

I love Stockton ... I still have a bag of sand in front of me right now (don't tell the rangers)

Marty

[schmik]

To put one more damper on it as of January this year it is now a lot easier for local councils to enforce fines and on the spot confiscation of equipment, as the courts have now approved it. Where as before they could only threaten, now they act and issue on the spot fines confiscation of equipment until fines are payed. Which are enforced in the courts.

Is this some form of legalised theft? Seriously WTF is happening to this country?

These guys should get paid danger money. Someday, some council knob will try to 'confiscate' something off some iced up junkie or gun weilding thug and pay the price.

THe whole thing is soooooo stoopid! (like my spelling).

"Honey I'm off for a kite surf"

"Ok, did you get a permit today?"

"Ah shit, it's 4:45pm I'll never get out and get one on time" .... "Damn its a public holiday and the permit office is closed".

The whole point of this is that this OVER regulation of our leisure time has to stop. The best thing to negotiate is for them to leave us alone. Other wise.... first it's your kite, then "you need a permit for that board" and eventually, "hey they aren't regulation wheels you can't use that". The best outcome is for the DECC to be convinced that this is a stupid idea and to drop it. Just because some ranger thinks it's a good idea does not mean the people in charge also think so. That is why you should not just bend over and take the first poke they give you.

Where will it end? a turnstyle at each end of every beach where you have to fill out a form just to take a walk with the Mrs?

Kiting needs to be lumped in with walking, jogging, surfing, swimming etc. NOT 4wds, quads, motorbikes etc. By agreeing to being treated like that is not fair on all kiters.

mike

[sinbad]

Kiting is normally not the major issue, its the getting run over by a race buggy doing 60 to 80 kms an hour, that's a problem. No different from a 4x4 but most of them have a full licence and have passed a test and have compulsory 3rd party insurance.

How many people had insurance at the mayday event?, who was running the event? who had event insurance?

Who had done a risk assessment? What disclaimers where signed?

Was a permit or approval obtained and what limitations where there on the permit?.

As Marty said its a discussion forum, so everybody can put there points forward.

It will be good to see which type of action gets things sorted.

Maybe shouting about they will charge us soon to speak on the beach its not fair, will work up there. (it hasn't worked any where else in the world)

[schmik]

How many people had insurance at the mayday event?, who was running the event? who had event insurance?

Who had done a risk assessment? What disclaimers where signed?

Was a permit or approval obtained and what limitations where there on the permit?.

)

The whole point of going somewhere as remote as stockton is that the above is not needed. Have you been there? It's like a desert! If you had an event somewhere in the middle no one would even know. The place is that big.

Before you apply all of the above you have to apply common sense. As i said, what's next. Risk assessments and disclaimers for a casual sunday arvo session with a few lads?

I'm asking that the DECC follow what is know as 'fair process' and apply 'common sense'. In this case it does not mean regulating that shit out a few gits mucking around with kites and buggies. Sure.... when you get 30 buggies racing at 60k and 200 spectators then fill out your forms to your hearts content, have insurance but until then, "let it be".

BTW, given a choice of a 4wd or buggy at 60kph, i'll take the buggy. It's not the same.

mike

[lickedysplit_au]

Well if this is the general consencus I will hold back and "let it be" for the time. I don't agree that it is a valid or worthwhile course of action after the phone coversations and emails I have had but without the backing and support of at least this community then any further action would be pointless.

Just do people are aware, this very thread is being viewed by the DECC. I am sure all the "discussion" will do us a world of good...

[schmik]

You misunderstood. The DECC need to be advised that they should let us be. I am not saying do nothing. I am say that they need to be convinced that we are like runners, or walkers or fishermen NOT 4wds. We do not need to be regulated like that.

BTW alerting them to this thread (coz i doubt they are regular XK readers) is just stupid. Either they have been alerted to this site/thread or you are bluffing. If you plan on strategy discussions take place here then why alert them to this thread? Talk about showing your hand.

mike

[sinbad]

The points i see from this discussion which have drawn attention to DECC are the following. Please feel free to add your comments.

A few guys in there buggy's, decide they want to have a casual "Sunday arvo" kite around on a Friday afternoon all day Saturday and Sunday and setup on a public beach with a retail kiteshop having a demo day setup as well.

The easy way is to setup right next to the main "on" ramp onto the Beach, good for buisness as you get lots of coverage and lots of people can see you so brings in lots of attention.

If somebody new comes and try's some equipment out and they get dragged you can see them as you come down the on ramp.

The whole point of going somewhere as remote as stockton is that the above is not needed. Have you been there? It's like a desert! If you had an event somewhere in the middle no one would even know. The place is that big.

Very good point there Schmik, So why did they choose the first location they setup in. Poor Troy now has to clean it all up and deal with DECC.

Plus when you get a phone call from a person at work in Newcastle and the qoute was "Hey saw some of your mad mates on the weekend at stockton they looked like they owned the place" I wont say what the rest of the comments where, I Just said there not with me.

By the way the impact of a 50kg buggy with a person in it hitting you just below the knees (after they have applied the brakes) will smash your legs, you get hit by a 4x4 at least they have had the chance to apply brakes plus the impact load area is larger so damage could be minamised.

[lickedysplit_au]

I didn't plan on any stategy discussions taking place in a PUBLIC forum Mike, I was using this thread to broadcast information I had recieved. Perhaps any strategy would be better discussed in a private phone call or something alittle less public than a forum.

Unfortunately I am not bluffing mate, the website was bought to their attention early in conversations as a place that we would let people know what is now going on.

Anyway I am off to work.