Blade 3 4.9m vs 5m ?! Or Eolo Savage 4.5m?!?!?!

[rodpacker]

Hey guys I am new to this forum and therefore here my initial

"Hello to everybody"

I also got a couple questions straight away. I am looking into buying myself a "new" Ram Air Foil kite (I have owned quite a few kites in my past) and want something with a bit of lift and hangtime. I will be using it to just jump around on the beach as well as with my MountainBoard and Snowboard.

I am around the 65kg-70kg mark and live in Sydney (so u know the kinda wind situation I'm in).

Now I am thinking of buying a Blade III and was thinking about a 4m, 4.9m or 5m. On a first look there shouldn't be much of a difference between the 4.9 and 5m, however looking at the cell number of both it appears the 5m one has two more cells, which as far as I understand will make it more powerfull by otherwise having the same turning speed as the 4.9m, right?

Is there any other differences?

The other option I was starting to think of today while reading through this forum is to grab the Eolo Savage2 instead.

It looks like it is in the "Test"Circle here. Can any of you that has flown it yet give me some info on lift, stability, power, how it handles gusts and so forth? How does it compare to the blade 3?

I have owned a 8m Radsails Pro I a while back and the quality as well as performance was excellent. I thought they would be a lot more popular by now, but guess they aren't yet where they should be or the newer Kites aren't as good?

Any input welcome ...

cheers

Rodpacker

[.Joel]

Hi Rod,

I have flown both the Blade III's and the Savage. If you're looking at a 4.9m my suggestion would be look towards either a Blade II or Blade IV. This is just personal preference there, I really didn't like the Blade III's, the 4.9m was alright, however I would rather burn the 6.6m and enjoy the sight of raising embers then own a 6.6m Blade III With the Blade V due out shortly there will be some Blade IV's popping up for sale.

The original Savage is a bit of a mixed kettle, it's a really nice kite but it needs a lot more attention than the Blades. I found the 6.5m Savage to be a fun kite to fly, in the bottom of its wind range it didn't have the same lift and float as the Blade IV. At the top of its wind range it had a very nice and aggressive feel to it when it lifted. The only thing I really didn't like about it was the unsleeved bridle, some unsleeved bridles seem to sort themselves out, perhaps the type of line used. However on the Savage it was a little like watching spaghetti, blink twice after a luff and you have a tangle that catches.

The new Savage II will be moving out the door shortly as well, something else to think about I can't say to much right now, however we recorded an interview with Radsails and Mark their team rider last week, and also a long conversation with Andy the designer of the kite. From everything so far it sounds like the Savage II is going to be a standout over the coming season or two if it lives up to all the info. Keep your eye out

The Blade III 4.9m I would say was a better finished product, the Savage was a great release for their first kite aimed at pure freestyle. The Blade V and the Savage II, I think the tables may be tied. But it's all speculation until the kites arrive.

Regards,

.Joel

[Alpha_8888]

If you are looking for a lifty kite with float. I would suggest getting a de-powerable foil.

Up until about a month or 2 ago, i had been fly fixed bridle kites and had done some jumping with a 5.0m Ozone Flow. Then i decided to get my first depower kite, 11m Ozone Frenzy, because i'd like to start doing some freestyle landboarding. It took me a little while to get used to flying on a bar compared to handles, but when i comes to jumping it feels so much safer then a fixed bridle kite.

Blackant posted some photos of me jumping from the weekend in the Frenzy and Outlaw Jumping post. Also in the same post there is a video of Blackant riding his board for the first time with first depower aswell.

Regards,

Dudley

[.Joel]

Up until about a month or 2 ago, i had been fly fixed bridle kites and had done some jumping with a 5.0m Ozone Flow. Then i decided to get my first depower kite, 11m Ozone Frenzy, because i'd like to start doing some freestyle landboarding. It took me a little while to get used to flying on a bar compared to handles, but when i comes to jumping it feels so much safer then a fixed bridle kite.

So you went from a beginners kite with zilch lift, to a kite purely aimed at ultimate lift and float, and you find that one lifts more than the other. I'm not disagreeing with your findings, I agree with you however a bit of objectiveness is always nice

Regards,

.Joel

[budha]

i tried the savage and liked it

i say give it a go

[rodpacker]

Hey guys,

thanks for the replies!!!

Hm strange you got such a dislike to the Blade 3's ... All I have heard about this kite is that it's amazingly good and top nodge.

The videos by the brighton crew on youtube with the blade III look nuts too, they're just getting sooooo much air and even the landings look VERY smooth. But yeah u're right maybe worth waiting.

As for the Savage - my bad - I did mean version two of it. When is it coming out exactly and are they out in Europe yet? I could order one from there I guess. Also when is this Interview going to be released? I've read u mention it in another post a while back too and searched for it here in the forums but couldn't find it yet. Have u guys had a test flight yet (didn't sound like it but yes I am very curious) Those buggy jumps on the old savage Andy Preston did were quite impressive but I'd be interested as on how stable the kite is and on how soft the landings are. The 8m Eolo Pro I used to have had massive lift but it just chucked u straight back down too. In general I am quite convinced of EOLO's capabilities.

Thanks for the tip with the depower kites too, but first of all handles have always given me way more then enough depower (I don't think I've flown a foil kite I couldn't slowly bring back down in the powersonze by cranking in the breaks). Also I do Kiteboard and don't want another big sized kite. Just love the way the smaller foils handle by having such power => Awesome. I think I did forget to say that I snowkite a little bit as well (meaning I've done it a few times before, had fun, will do it again, but won't go for a pro career).

What would u guys recommend in kite size for the blades or savages for me here (as I said living in Sydney and am the 65-70kg mark)

thanks a lot

cheers

rodpacker

[Jason]

Fixed bridle kites jump fine

[Alpha_8888]

So you went from a beginners kite with zilch lift, to a kite purely aimed at ultimate lift and float, and you find that one lifts more than the other. I'm not disagreeing with your findings, I agree with you however a bit of objectiveness is always nice

Regards,

.Joel

I didn't mean to sound one sided. Was just giving my my point of view.

[nigel]

The 4.9 of any Blade range has been the best handling and compomise of speed, power and float, till the Blade IV 6.5 appeared.

The B.IV 6.5 has a great combo of turning, speed and great float to have you jumping around from 8 knots to 15+ if your game!!

It also has a bridle adjustment option, so you can lower (increase) the pull rate. Great if your stuck with just one kite and the wind picks up a little bit too much.

Used the Savage 6.5 for a short time and found it a good kite to fly, but lacked any low end power, or grunt.

Higher up in the wind range it was fine.

De-power works a little different than just pulling the brakes on to get the kite in the powerzone.

First, de-powers are much bigger than fixed bridle kites for their equal pulling power (aerodynamicly, they are poor performers).

Second, a de-power will often cover the wind range of two fixed bridle kites, some times 3.

Thirdly, a bigger kite has more float, de-powers win here.

I fly Peter Lynn ARC's, a de-powerable kite.

Imagine taking a 6m fixed bridled kite out in 40 knots!

I've taken my 6m ARC to 52 knots, it de-powers to the equal pulling point of a 1.5m kite, yet in light winds will just match a fixed 3m foil at the bottom end.

The advantage of de-power is I have on tap, the power of a 3m kite, yet the pull of a 1.5m kite when I don't want the power.

No need to move the kite into the power zone to do this, just pull the bar in. So I can have power any where I like.

Bigger foil de-powers can be upwards of 12-14+m in size.

The ARC's now go to 23m (for use on a kitekat, a kite powered boat).

The big de-powers are very slow, turn slowly, and often lose out performance wise to smaller fixed bridled kites.

By getting a 8-10m de-power foil you should be able to cover the wind range of the 6.5 and the 4.9, in one kite.

If you looking for lift, look for the higher performance models/freestyle, not the beginers one's.

(Have a good look at the 9.5m HQ Montana, if your after de-power)

Good luck.

[rodpacker]

Nigel,

thanks a lot for the insight - very much appreciated!

Hm the blade IV 6.5 sounds pretty good then. I think I didn't articulate myself properly in my earlier post regarding the breaks

What I meant is that - as far as I know - most depower systems use the exact same method one does by hitting the brakes on a fixed briddle: Pulling the back lines tighter. I started Kitesurfing back in the days when even chickenloops were considered what there name suggests - an attitude I have always found very much retarded

However back then I picked up a fixed briddle foil and was amazed what I could do by changing the angle I was holding the handles in (pulling the bottom towards me). The thing with bringing the kite down in the powersone by using this method was just to emphasize my point of how much control u get by using the breaks properly. Generally it enabled me to basically fly one kite in a massive windrange by just allowing it to have more or less power ... admittedly a de-power kite and a bar have the massive advantage that u don't get tennisarms like in your teenage years while being single after a ten minute flight in high winds

Anyways, I will check those de-powers out, even though I think for the moment I am after a fixed bridle because they are just sooo much smaller with an equal pull resulting in a way agile flight, less packages and a bit less hazzle to set them up

cheers

rodpacker

[dannys]

Gday! For what it's worth I've been flying with blades for a years. Now own a 4.9 and 6.5 Blade IV. The 6.5 kicks arse!!! Will always ride with that if pos. The power, lift and float is great only get the 4.9 out when wind gets too strong for the 6.5. Get a blade and you'll be well impressed if you're into fixed bridles

[rodpacker]

Thanks Dannys

Could somebody be so nice and able to possibly answer my initial question on the difference between the 4.9m and 5m Blade III's?

Do the 5's really perform that much worth then the 4.9's?

And what do you think which size I should get to be able to fly the most in Sydney (Beaches)?

Thanks a lot for your help again

cheers

rodpacker

[nigel]

No such thing as a 5m Blade, always been 4.9m.

The smaller the kite the bigger the wind range.

The better de-powers don't just pull the brakes on, they actually adjust the airfoil shape by moving the bridle lines.

You can tell this as they usually use little pulleys in the bridle.

Most of the foil de-powers are just as quick to set up as a fixed bridle kite.

The blades can be expensive, so don't pass up on a good performing de-power for much the same price.

Current prices for a Blade IV 6.5m from www.kitepower.com.au $1,049.00

HQ Montana IV 9.5m from www.briskites.com.au $1,374.00

If you've never tried a de-power kite before, find some fellow kiters around you and have a go, you might be suprised how good they are now.

[rodpacker]

thanks Nigel .

Sorry for the Noob Question, but does that mean the de-power kites have to be de-powered manually by changing the bridle lines while the kite is on the ground or is that done during flight?

You've really got me thinking about depowers now. If I can find any kiters with matts around here I will definatley check it out!!!

Oh and btw if this tabel isn't fake there is a 5m blade three:

Model

Wingspan

Flat Surface Area (sq m)

Aspect Ratio

Sail Material

Skill Level

Cells

3.0

3.2

3.0

4.8

Ripstop Polyester

Int/Exp

26

4.0

3.8

4.0

4.9

Int/Exp

28

4.9

4.3

4.9

5

Int/Exp

30

6.6

5

6.6

5.1

Int/Exp

32

8.5

5.7

8.5

5.2

Int/Exp

34

10.5

6.4

10.5

5.3

Int/Exp

38

And there is a 5m one for sale on eBay atm, too

cheers

rodpacker

[nigel]

The Ebay one is listed as 5m, but in fact is 4.9m.

The guy even has the official size listings above the photos, and there is no 5m, just 4.9m.

De-powers use a bar, the power lines go to the middle, and the brakes go to the outer edges of the bar.

By pulling the bar towards you, it alters the angle of attack on the foil (too much and it can stall), and producess power.

Let the bar out and it has little pull.

To turn the kite, pull one side of the bar towards you, do not twist it around the centre line (like driving a car).

In the pic below, note how the centre lines (power) go to a trim strap (fine tuning of kite for the wind), here they join and become one big line that the bar runs up and down.

This line attaches to you via a chicken loop, or QR (quick release).

Also the little black bit (length of elastic bungy) attached to the red dag on the right hand brake line, is a safty line.

This is what stops the kite from running away (and killing all power) should you want to ditch the kite by pulling the QR.

Each brand has a little bit different system for doing this.

The Blade on Ebay comes with a bar, but the kite is not a de-powerable kite.

By using the bar it will not make it a de-power kite.

The bar will attach just like a de-power kite, but as you steer the kite, it will only pull on the brakes to turn.

This limits the amount of turning you can do (most non de-power kites like some or most of their turning input to come from the power lines), and can cause the brakes to be pulled on too much with the kite stalling (or slowing down) when it turns.

Handles offer a far better means of controll on a kite not designed for a bar.

Hope that helps.

[goshen]

Hi Rodpacker,

Just thought I'd give you a little further info, since I fly a lot of Blades (and Depower kites now). My favourite size is 4.9m; but size really depends on what winds you would prefer to got out in. The 6.5m is generally a light-wind kite, great in 10-15 knots. I didn't find the 6.6m Blade III too bad (smaller sizes not so good); but that's my opinion. We have a 2nd hand 6.5m in the Kitepower shop in Geelong, if that's something that interests you.

For general flying, on the beach - the Blades on handles will certainly be a better choice - very fast, fun to fly, easy jumping, etc. As you say - easy to setup, smaller package and very manouverable. Also note that fixed bridle foils will perform much better in light winds than most depower kites.

However, you mentioned landboarding and snowboarding, and something about lift and hangtime... well - you would be amazed at the current generation of Depower foils (be very wary of buying much older depower foils). They really do have heaps of lift AND depower. At the end of the day, when way 'overpowered' on a 4.9m Blade in 22knots - you'd be just cruizing and jumping nicely, and in control, with a 6 - 9m Depower kite.

All the best,

Goshen

[rodpacker]

Nigel,

Thanks and yes u're right. I had a closer look the one on eBay seems to be a 4.9m as can be seen on the pic. Didn't notice that before. However - unless he changed it now - the table I posted (not sure why it is formatted like that now as it was formated as a proper table in the thread editor window) is taken from that auction and there he had a 5m listed and highlighted red ... however doesn't matter I guess u guys are right and there is no 5m I haven't heard of one anywhere else either.

Thanks a lot for the in depth explanation of the depower kites!! Makes sense now.

I'm still thinking about using a fixed bridle for most of my landboardind and snowkiting stuff and if I want more/the depower and bar feeling, just use the Cabrinha later

Goshen, I think I pretty much checked all relavant areas of your site but couldn't find the blade u were talking about?

Is this where I would find it:

http://www.kitepower.com.au/cart.php?target=product&product_id=17275

?

I assume the 6.5m is a blade 4?

cheers

rodpacker

[blackant]

Hey Rodpacker,

I love threads like this, I always learn something new when reading them

I've only been at it about a year, but I've flown both Blade IV 4.9m and one of the new types of depower kites, a 10m outlaw. You can't go wrong with a Blade IV IMO, they are brilliant and I loved mine to death.

I'm only a little bloke at 60kgs, and I could use mine happily from about 10 to 20 knots depending on the gusts, and was happiest jumping with it between 15 to 18 knots. I learnt to static jump with it, and then moved onto learning to jump on the board with it. The only reason I sold it recently was that I just can't financially justify having two kites in the same wind range.

I've only recently got my depower, and I have to admit it suits me and my flying conditions better than the fixed bridals do. because of the depower, I can hold down much more power in higher winds, and be jumping safer over a much wider wind window. I've been quite comfortable in gusty winds that I wouldn't have taken my blade out in.

I reallly like to static fly and jump, and that was one of the area's that I thought I'd miss going to a depower over a blade. I haven't found this the case so far, I can set up the outlaw almost as quick as I could the blade (it is much less portable than the blade though) and although it has taken a bit of getting used to jumping harnessed in I'm getting there

With the aerodynamics, from what I read before getting the outlaw, I thought a 10m kite would fly a bit like a bus and not be very controllalble. Although it is obviusly slower than my Blade 4.9, once I got used to using the bar I was pretty impressed how fast and manoueverable it is. I can't speak for other depowerables though, as I haven't flown many.

Good luck with your purchase, and as others have said if you go with a blade or a newer depower you're gonna have a lot of fun

Kind regards

Ant

[rodpacker]

Hi Ant,

cheers for your post, glad this is informative to others then me, too

Hm, these damn depowers seem to really be good - not saying I didn't believe any of the others before, don't get me wrong ... but u know the steady drop hollows the stone

I'll have a look into the outlaw

cheers

rodpacker

[goshen]

Hi RP; It might not have been on the website... but it is now:

http://www.kitepower.com.au/cart.php?target=product&product_id=16952&category_id=249

[Andyfly]

We have a 2nd hand 6.5m in the Kitepower shop in Geelong, if that's something that interests you.

All the best,

Goshen

It does.. very much

Hi RP; It might not have been on the website... but it is now:

http://www.kitepower.com.au/cart.php?target=product&product_id=16952&category_id=249

That link is to new Blades ...what about the second hand 6.5.. any link to that...(already tried Geelong's clearance stock..not there)

Andy..

[blackant]

Hi Andy,

I was thinking the same thing, but if you use the drop down menu it shows the secondhand blade on there. Someone had better be quick, it's only $650

I'm still paying off the layby on a 6m Access to go with my outlaw so it won't be me

Kind regards

Ant

[rodpacker]

Hi Goshen,

thanks a lot for the link.

Looks like I gotta hurry

cheers

Rodpacker