UK Could FW2 be better?

[Mell1599968579]

It is a very difficult thing to do and raised its head when we used to run events at Berrow Sands. usually the emptiest part of any event is the point furthest away and yet thos expected to use that area are the least able to do so as in walk there.... fly and maybe have to walk back. What this does is keeps the newer people out of the main event area and isolated.

 

There always has been plenty of room at wallop even without the grass being cut but people do not want to/are unable to utilise the whole area.

 

The whole ethos of wallop is that there should be ineteraction between everybody there and the atmosphere on the field was as it should be everywhere. Yes collisions. odd kite dumps etc may occur but the experience of being surrounded by others sharpens up the individuals ability to be 'aware' of what and who is around them.

 

Wallop is not for speeding along at 60 mph or doing your own thing at the exclusion of others, its about meeting and helping each other. Understanding others, watching, learning and teaching without any animosity.

 

If we started to seperate people such as beginners, boarders, jumpers, racers then.... why bother going? Every person there is as good as or as bad as the person next to them and whilst it may not be everyones cup of tea it would be nice if the same philosphy was spread around to all other get togethers/meets.

 

We try to be inclusive and not exclusive. As mentioned many times there is no need for anybody to feel intimidated and as always any collisions etc are the experts fault not the beginners.

 

Hopefully there are many that learned a lot from the experience and this carries over into the places where they choose to participate.

 

 

As for the losses. What we estimated to lose and what we lost were different. We could take a hit but if it was to be as big as we thought then we could only do it once. Fortunately it was not as bad as predicted and as I said a summary of costs etc will be published shortly.

 

The BBC has NEVER charged for an event yet but that is not to say that we will always be able to do this and all being well we may be able to put on another Wallop without doing so.

[Spook]

With not attending i feel a little hypocritical in suggesting that it's prob worth having a word with the X-Zone guys. The beer tent last october was heaving, i believe they ran out of some of the drink!! They had live music and a DJ (please no reminders of Rich Brazier pole dancing!!), as well as films.

 

All in all a top do

 

God no! That's the main reason I go to Wallop and not X-zone, because Wallop is a nice event and XZ is just a big party.

[The BFG]

Hi Mell

 

I wasn't saying there should be areas for various levels of kiters, but for those that felt they were not too confident in the busy areas there was plenty of room on the field:D down "the bottom end"

[Mell1599968579]

No worries. I think people do learn far more from being mixed and as long as those that can take responsibility beginners should not be worried or concerned.

 

This is the first Wallop where we have wholly managed it and things will change over time and we do listen too

 

Mell

 

 

Hi Mell

 

I wasn't saying there should be areas for various levels of kiters, but for those that felt they were not too confident in the busy areas there was plenty of room on the field:D down "the bottom end"

[Gandromedus]

Well said Mell, I think the feeling of inclusion at Wallop was superb, it was made it so good for me. If I wanted my own space I wouldn't have gone there. I was pondering whether to suggest an optional zone for beginners, which only excludes more experienced kiters, or perhaps just excludes people who want to go screaming up and down as experience is difficult to judge. Then everyone will start wanting a different zone, and it just becomes an organisational nightmare, and destroys the whole atmosphere. Just chuck everyone in together and we will have to be considerate, we won't have a choice

 

I thought the event was excellent, I didn't stay the night or even visit the beer tent, but I have no complaints about what I did experience. More stalls would have been interesting on Sunday, but only because the wind was p00. I for one would be happy to pay for such an outstanding event, but I would also be in favour of any cost being kept down (obviously). I hope all goes well with future Wallops.

[anna1599968635]

Anna.................I could tell you a few tales about them which is why I back Joe on what he says.................

 

mind you the majority of food we had we cooked ourselves...............but the cheese and mushroom pancakes are lush................

 

K

 

ah man iam so glad you didnt tell me any horror storys while i was eating that food then ................................dear i ask k ?????

[metal_snapper1599968645]

First one was a great event, quite well organised.......very surprised that stalls selling kites didn't have any or very few of the very lastest models on sale...

 

Next one; more stalls selling latest kites....oh and I'll add, yeah, more food stalls:) And you should really have a veggie one as already posted.

[splatbucket]

well i would have to say, thanks to all who organised, it was a great event, and yer it is great that it is free but if prehaps it cost up to £40 i still think people would pay, this would mean that the event would definatly break even etc, and you could afford bands etc fot the nights. just a suggestion.

[Marcus Edwards]

well i would have to say, thanks to all who organised, it was a great event, and yer it is great that it is free but if prehaps it cost up to £40 i still think people would pay, this would mean that the event would definatly break even etc, and you could afford bands etc fot the nights. just a suggestion.

 

You don't need money for bands,

we are the entertainment the show the specticle.

Did you see how many cars were stopping on the road outside watching for free!

This is a unique event that could be funded totaly by sponsorship, trade stands, corporate entertainment and paying public etc, like a hot air balloon festival.

Reasonable charges for camping thats ok. Everything else should be self funding/paying for riding on the back of the festival, and the money from that used to run the event.

[tiny_clanger]

tbh, I wouldnt want bands

 

It was nice to be able to chat and relax without loud music. If I want that, I can go to a gig. I enjoyed the chance to have conversations without shouting.

 

What I'd have also liked would be t shirts available before the event with individual names printed on. Say with a FW logo on the front and TINY_CLANGER on the back, for example. To wear whilst at the bar, cos I'm sure I missed talking to plenty of people who didnt know me IRL, but knew me online

[Mell1599968579]

Hmmm, you could have hired a clanger suit for the event, that may have done the trick:rolleyes:

 

Mell

 

 

tbh, I wouldnt want bands

 

It was nice to be able to chat and relax without loud music. If I want that, I can go to a gig. I enjoyed the chance to have conversations without shouting.

 

What I'd have also liked would be t shirts available before the event with individual names printed on. Say with a FW logo on the front and TINY_CLANGER on the back, for example. To wear whilst at the bar, cos I'm sure I missed talking to plenty of people who didnt know me IRL, but knew me online

[Skyscraper]

Have to struggle here to think of improvements to suggest, but here goes:

 

1) Large wind strength display - the type of thing that displays time and temperature at marathons. There were some seriously overpowered kiters on Saturday who underestimated the wind and found themselves in diffs. A dual-readout display with max gust strength over the past 1/2 hour could let people know the state of play going out, and maybe reduce the broken bone count. Maybe even a klaxxon to warn people if there are any gusts over 30 (have a look at the MW 2004 buggy crash video to see how this can end up)

 

2) separate upwind and downwind speed lanes, separated by bollards, to let us have a bit of a blast without worrying about head-ons.

 

3) Encourage traders to have a have a "try before you buy" area populated with demo stock. They might sell more kites if they could say "I know it looks nice in the bag, but don't just take my word for it. Take it for a test drive". Seems to me they're missing a trick here.

 

4) MW 2003 had mobile wash rooms where you could go and wash yourself in the morning. That was nice. Could we have them back please?

 

5) Ask the stalls NOT to start their generators at 6:30 in the bl**dy morning

 

6) Naked buggying. It's Summer! Why does nobody think this is a good idea???

 

 

There now, I knew I'd think of something

 

Oh yeah! One last more - have one EVERY MONTH!!! (or at least a second one in August (please?))

[Skyscraper]

What I'd have also liked would be t shirts available before the event with individual names printed on. Say with a FW logo on the front and TINY_CLANGER on the back, for example. To wear whilst at the bar, cos I'm sure I missed talking to plenty of people who didnt know me IRL, but knew me online

 

Now THAT'S a good idea!

[Dr-Manic]

What I'd have also liked would be t shirts available before the event with individual names printed on. Say with a FW logo on the front and TINY_CLANGER on the back, for example. To wear whilst at the bar, cos I'm sure I missed talking to plenty of people who didnt know me IRL, but knew me online

 

 

you could have made a t-shirt up yourself there are loads of online printers you can use

[Dr-Manic]

6) Naked buggying. It's Summer! Why does nobody think this is a good idea???

 

 

if it wasnt for rasgas poor drinking skills Natz would have been naked in a buggy last year:eek:

[Marcus Edwards]

you could have made a t-shirt up yourself there are loads of online printers you can use

Major marketing opportunity missed - If i was sponsoring an event every pilot would get a free t-shirt and goodie bag, money off voucher etc.

[mick]

I think the charge of £3 to get in, these day is too low. I'm sure a fiver would be acceptable and virtually double the gate receipts.

 

I dont think seperate areas for skill levels are at all neccessary. What I would suggest would be a seperate area for the more extreme side of kiting. Jumping or freestyle. Due to the fact that these flyers have to be generally fully powered.

Several times during the day one or two buggys were just dragged sideways down the wind at speed because of the extreme size of kite being flown. I expect the flyers to come roaring back saying they were in total control. Of course you were.

We, the Coventry crew would have liked more trade stands and like the other postee said, the private kite booters of previous years.

 

But that aside, well done Mell and team. (again)

[TAL]

I don't think the film fest was the reason money was down in the beer tent on Sunday, I think the lack of no wind scared a lot of people home, most of our party left after it was obviously not going to happen.

 

Personally, I was looking forward to the film fest and without that entertainment we would have never visited the beer tent as we had our own grog.

 

If there was entertainment in there every night we would have been down there, making the event more money!

Like the idea about a lane down the inside of the grass to get to the far end though, much safer.

[cboshier]

here's my 2 cents and I'll stick to the kiting and avoid beer tent and vendors completely as I go to Wallop for the pleasure of kiting on such a large expanse of lovely grass, not the beer or the fast food.

 

segregation

 

Buggying

 

I think for the buggying fraternity there is an element of segregation, as the less experienced don't seem to travel too deep into the field which creates a sort of swimming pool effect, begginners in the shallow end near the perimiter ( a good reason to pull your kite lines in if you're rigged up there for too long) , more advanced further down the field or hairing around the perimeter track.

 

Boarding

 

With boarders it's a different story and unfortunately with the development of depowerable kites they seem mutually exclusive to buggies to some degree, I say this as both a boarder and a buggier, thedifference between the kites means that boarders will generall keep their kites higher and have a habit of standing around chatting in the middle of the field with their kites at zenith.

Who knows, maybe (probably more for the buggy jumpers) depowerable kites will become dereigeur by the next Wallop and this would cause the same issues as the boarder/buggier differences I highlighted above.

 

Play Park

 

The boarder play park was a great idea, but along with my suggestions on partial segregation, having it so close to 'the shallows' as I mentioned above causes a problem with less experienced riders/buggiers getting tangled with boarders lining up or waiting to have a go at a ramp. I realise that the ramps are heavy and that photographers would be better not walking over the field to get to the action, but I do think keeping it away from the main traction field would be sensible and I'm sure any of the jumping boarders who got tangled up or had a run up spoiled by someone tractioning in front or into them would agree.

 

 

And a couple of notes to all,

1. regardless of how good you are, how fast you're going or what you're doing, Please, look behind you before you gybe or jump, you're not the only person on the field.

2. I'm sure it said it in the event details, but only set up around the perimeter, please don't rig your kites in the middle of the field, it's for the good of your kite and lines as well as for other people.

[No waiting]

On the subject of different areas for different skills: When is a beginner no longer a beginner - would a test need to be taken

 

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Have to struggle here to think of improvements to suggest, but here goes:

 

1) Large wind strength display

Did you not see the two big orange wind socks - provided free of charge by the army - and they show direction too

[cboshier]

skill level would be for you to decide, we're all sensible grown ups allegedly.

The way I see the skill level segregation, the onus would be on the more experienced to play further afield and toavoid the shallows or at least slow down when traversing them.

I know of several newish kiters who would be happy to improve their buggying skills safe in the fact that they weren't going to end up interfereing with more experienced kiters, I'm sure you remember when you were learning that you didn't want to get in the way or annoy anyone eho knew what they were doing.

[Mell1599968579]

Beer Tent

The entertainment in the beer tent is the cause of the lack of sales. If it was a one off then I am sure we would be scratching for reasons, however on past experience the same thing has happened before hence the lack of any prolonged entertianment such as bands etc. Previously the festival depended upon two things, beer sales and camping sales to break even and if it did not there would not be another wallop.

Now we are investing twice as much and taking a bigger risk, whilst we are not quite squeezing our buttocks over the beer (which is why we managed to do it cheaper) it is still a contribution to the cost of the event, efectivly this means that those who use the tent subsidise those that dont.

 

High Wind

So far at every wallop there is a point where we get squawls and gusts and suddenely you see us more active. We also take into consideration the wind direction as when it is blowing towards the high volatge fencing we have to be very careful (blew the other way this year).

 

However, one mans high wind/gust is another mans 'eh what'? A point in case being Lees accident last year. He was on a 6.6 (I think) and right behind him was somebody on an 18..... the guy on the 18 never noticed the gust etc that got Lee.

 

When people are out there seeing others with bigger kites doing things that people want to aspire to there is atendancy to forget that what you use and what you are able to do may not be quite what you aspire to and as such it is easy to be overpowered. How far do you go?

 

The choice is upon the individual and common sense is prevalent..... everybody is wise after the event it just takes a bit more thought from each person using the field.

 

 

Museum

I too was under the impression that the museum entry was free. It appears that because we had a weekend rate (of 5 pounds for adults for whole weekend and something for children) it did not in fact cover the cost of visiting the museum. The system we used to have was that everybody paid the museum rate for entry hence the 'free' visits. Now what this means is that only those who want to go need pay extra and those that have no interest do not have to pay.

 

It was confusing, I was confused but now we know. I would rather pay the 5 pounds for free access to the field for three days than whatever the museum fee was each time we went for something that I have seen before.

[beardyjim]

So if beer sales are propping up the event does that mean that everyone there is actually a sponsored rider:D

There was me thinking that alcohol was bad but now you're saying its the saviour of kiting festivals:cool: sounds your insisting I go out and drink now:o

 

mmmm the voices in my head are getting overruled by Mell

 

 

Oh yeah and I really enjoyed it and would have paid double.

GF would have liked the x-zone style pancakes with choc and marshmallows but made a good dent in the others anyhow! (She also would have liked a shower but you can't have everything..)

[Frakke1599968664]

My sixpence (well ten points) worth....

1) Have to agree with Skyscraper on most points - not sure about points 2 as it was sometimes difficult to keep a direct line even if there was no one in the front. However we seemed to have a "mexican wave" effect going at one point when everyone was going the same way - this cut down dramatically on the awareness front as we all were same way - same speed (got 32.2mph on 3m - well chuffed for that too and err 6 )

2) I liked TC's idea of a named T-shirt (noticed "ants in ya pants" had his own one anyway) but this would mean paying in advance to get one (which is not a problem if you're camping as this is advance payment anyway) unless we had a trader on site to make them up for the day visitors.... at extra cost??? or included in the entry price ???? either way it would generate some form of income and it would be easier to put a name to a face in the bar .....

3) I came Sat and Sun would have happily paid DOUBLE on both days (Wind on Sat was enough for Sun too) which would generate a bit more income to cover costs...

4) Had a great time on Sunday and as there was no wind met far more people than expected but did notice that there were far more minor injuries due to no wind toys being thrown, juggled or misused in general (was fun to watch though ) - Wonder how Spooky's finger is these days ...

5) Went in the beer tent (several times :) ) on Sunday and would have been prepared to pay a tad more per pint after all this is a kite fest not a beer festival. However when there is no wind it could be a beer festival especially if there was slightly more to do on no wind days....

6) As for food I wasn't totally thrilled by the choice although I didn't have to survive the whole weekend on it (being a day trip visitor) might have been tempted to invest more if there was a better choice though.

7) Loos - nuff said on the other thread never a problem when I needed them though...

8) Segregated areas (HMMMM..) not sure on this one as I enjoyed the "rubbing shoulders" with those who were obviously far more skilled and into buggying than me but that didn't stop the "mixing in and thrashing around like a nutter" along with everyone else. I found this particularly beneficial for learning when trying to chase those "better" people across the field - Learned wheelies both ways on Saturday by following - well chuffed for that too..

9) Could be useful to separate out the boarders with the play area a little better as mentioned earlier in the thread as this tended to clash with those on the edge of the traction area (not that I noticed that much confusion)

10) Experience (HMMM...again) I think this is how high your confidence is in a crowded area - Have to agree it raised my awareness of who was where (most of the time) and all the tangles and crashes I saw (apart from Both ambulance incidents on Sat) were very amicably dealt with

10) Museum ??? - What museum - too busy with kites and howlers and aerobies and beers and chatting to bother with that (probably very interesting though)

 

there you go..

Frakke

[Big Pete]

A couple of thoughts......

 

Music - you want music in the bar, you got music! give us a 10A 240v feed and I'll bring down the 1KW P.A. kit and cd player to do it - you lot bring in some extra cd's and we'll play 'em! It'll help Mell and his speach next time as well...... Mell, let me know if you want this - your desision - rest of you badger him!!!! I'll run the system in the evenings only - we want to buggy as well!

 

segregation - interesting! it's a bit intimidating for learners/low experianced buggiers to be thrown in with the rest, I hate the thought of rules but we need to identify those who could be a hazard. a zone for them to fly/buggy/board in thats not totally exept to the rest of us to charge through, but one there we need to be aware of them..... donno whats best really!

 

boarders ramps/toys, etc. - as a marshall on monday I did feel that this was set up in the middle and to a degree a hazard to others, some more thought as to it's location would be good - it was the area all photographers/public instantly hovered around as a safe zone!!!

 

food - you pays your money..... it's up to you what you eat. reading this thread a veggie stand could be popular, anyone know of any traders suitable???

 

loo's - I know the situation was urgent, but 6:30am.......... nuff said.

 

illegal trading - I understand why there was a stop to second hand selling, but this was a great meet for this in the past, got some great deals out of it. is there a way of some form of reinstating this??

perhaps a "one hour, one item" sale running in the evening? between 7 and 8 pm you are outside the bar with one item to sell, you have one hour to selll it in.

another idea I had was for a notice board at the flexifoil tent, postcacd sized, listed at £1 a display. a little money earner for the event, and easy to manage??? just a thought, anyone else got any ideas?

 

Museum - that did give a 50% discount to us in previous years, buggers are out to get megabucks out of us!!

 

P.

 

p.s. love the idea for the t-shirts, was it seka or swatk doing that already?? advice from them perchance....