saunton kite ban

[spooky]

If you want to play ...play but keep out of zone C...read the sign as if you were a child.

Christies should have put Zone A ...no kitesurfing

zone B ...no kitesurfing and zone c no kite surfing!

Hi,

Excelent advice/Info Brian, and espcially well done for spotting the above. You are right they have not band kiting from Zones A or B

 

Jon

[MATT1]

2 POINTS i dont know if they have been repeated before but here goes.

 

1 what happens if you dont use the carpark? and further to this what happens if the sign goes "Missing"?

 

2 we should find out why this has been banned, the freedom of information act means that if complaints have been made they will be on record and freely available for EVERYONE to read.

 

If there is one group of people that have had this banned eg birdwatchers. we should do everything within our power IE complain untill the point that the council forces that activity to stop as well. Im tired of this, and i think that attitude from me now is going to be, "if i cant use the beach nor can you".

 

the line, "I speke no english" might come into it too

 

Im going to leave this thread before i go too much into a rant

[sunset]

Has one forgotten that there is an election on the cards so local MP's like to look as if the can do somthing

[falcon78]

I went to Saunton Sands last weekend first time and was amazed at what a good beach it would be for kitesurfing and landboarding.

I'm shocked by the ban and would have thought that there was pletty of room for kiting activites to carry on at the beach. So I've written a letter to the MP (Nick Harvey) to find out how we stand legally on the issue with the high tide mark and the ban.

[r2d2]

does this mean that anything not mentioned on the sign is allowed:rolleyes:

 

zone B looks like the best place anyway:D ..don't know what everyones worrying about.

 

also, maybe the sign is there to cover themselves and takes away their liability if something does happen.

[Airpowerd]

does this mean that anything not mentioned on the sign is allowed:rolleyes:

 

zone B looks like the best place anyway:D ..don't know what everyones worrying about.

 

also, maybe the sign is there to cover themselves and takes away their liability if something does happen.

 

it also takes away your cover if something was to happen as you would not have permission from the landowner ? except in zone a and b as it reads, sounds like dodgy ground

[bulletmagnet]

Ok when are they going to ban surfing, oh i forgot they make money from that, as for dangers have you seen the scars from surfboard fins, they make swimmers stay away from them but there are always swimmers in the surf area.

 

also on the occaisions i've been kiting there there have always been idiots flying amongst the crowds and have never been receptive to being told to move beyond the red post (ok a few have but only a few)

some of this is OUR fault, next time you see some prat in the wrong place you have to put your passion across we can't lose any more beaches to these people.

 

I have real worries about westward ho because of this and when i go i will certainly be quite vocal when i see these people

 

I think you've almost hit the nail on the head here AP. Surfschools are (normally) regulated by the local authority, probably pay a fee to the Chrisitie Estates for use of Saunton, normally all holidaymakers that are pupils. It's very true what you say about a fin, they can cut human flesh just as easy as a razor. Have we seen local authorities trie to ban surfing? No, though some did try to make it compulsary for surfers to have 3rd party insurance.

 

Surfing is a recognised sport by central government, where as i dont think any kiting activity is, and up until about 8-10 yrs ago the British Surfing Association use to get funding from the sports council until they decided that the money would be better spent on chasing gold medals at the Olympics and withdrew funding for a lot of 'minority' sports.

 

You've only got to read through the flexi forum to see the bickering that goes on between people, kiting as a whole needs a national body now, not later because soon we're only going to be allowed onto a handful of sites, we've got to ask what have the so-called national bodies (PKSF, BKSA etc.) and the people who make a lot of money out of this the MANUFACTURERS done? Feck all is the answer, its usually been left to a small group of locals and the local shop to do something to get local agreements. Its about time they stepped up to the plate and put something back in to the sport.

[spooky]

it also takes away your cover if something was to happen as you would not have permission from the landowner ? except in zone a and b as it reads, sounds like dodgy ground

Not on;ly that but if it takes away your insurance as you have had permission refused, woudl that not now put the responcibility back onto the Owners etc? As if you went and hurt some one they woudl now be liable for NOT enforcing their policy?

In effect it is "seems" almost better if they give permission?

 

Definity a minefield as if they are just using it as a deterrant, does that mean you are not insured if they are unable to actually ban you? As if they cannot ban you and hence permission has not be denied, you should still be insured?

 

Sounds liek one of those things that no one will know for sure untill soemthing happens and insurers get involved?

 

Sorry I knw it just raises more questios that it answers

 

Jon

[32ph]

write to the MP Nick Harvey at harveyn@parliament.uk

[Airpowerd]

just found this on the countrysideaccess web site

 

Beaches

Many beaches are owned by local authorities and dedicated for public use. Many others have been used by the public for many years and are presumed to have been dedicated for public use. Certain activities may be restricted, such as camping, driving vehicles or lighting fires. There are also a few private beaches, closed to the public, with a notice displayed that explains this.

 

The foreshore is slightly different. This is defined as the region lying between the high and low tide line, and is marked on Ordnance Survey maps. This strip usually belongs to the Crown. There is not necessarily any right of public access to it, but in most cases you cannot be barred from walking on the foreshore because there is an absolute right of navigation along it when the tide is in, which prevents the erection of barriers to access.

 

As i read it we can kite at high tide as we have an absolute right of navigation

[bulletmagnet]

just found this on the countrysideaccess web site

 

Beaches

Many beaches are owned by local authorities and dedicated for public use. Many others have been used by the public for many years and are presumed to have been dedicated for public use. Certain activities may be restricted, such as camping, driving vehicles or lighting fires. There are also a few private beaches, closed to the public, with a notice displayed that explains this.

 

The foreshore is slightly different. This is defined as the region lying between the high and low tide line, and is marked on Ordnance Survey maps. This strip usually belongs to the Crown. There is not necessarily any right of public access to it, but in most cases you cannot be barred from walking on the foreshore because there is an absolute right of navigation along it when the tide is in, which prevents the erection of barriers to access.

 

As i read it we can kite at high tide as we have an absolute right of navigation

 

Very true, also how would they try to get you out of the water if you turned up in a boat, water launched, boarded for a while and went straight back to the boat without ever touching the beach?

[Jamie Mac]

All the replies are great...

 

There is allot of local pressure and momentum behind this from magor local companies and orgs.

 

we have made great in roads today into the legal side of things - which is great - my Solicitors have been so on it, FOR FREE, which is cool!!

 

anyone that can come please do - 8PM FRIDAY WHITE LION PUB

 

Later Jamie

[Randombob]

What a bummer!!

 

I have a trip down to woolacombe planned and was looking forward to kiting on saunton sands. Well spotted the person who pointed out the ambiguous nature of the sign though.

 

My questions is how on earth can they enforce the fine system? sounds like it is probably illegal, by that rational if I put a sign up in my garden I could then fine people for being in it. Any legal types out there that can pick holes in it?

 

I reckon we should try to get everyone on the forum to email the MP (harveyn@parliament.uk), even if you don't ever want to kite in devon it is still an issue for everyone 4000 emails in his inbox are going to force him to do something or else change his email address + it might be an interesting nugget for a journalist or any of the other candidates for the seat "MP receives thousands of emails and does nothing"

 

Might also be good to copy your emails to Richard Caborn, the minister for sport richard.caborn@culture.gsi.gov.uk

[peeky1323]

Next time anyone goes kiting in Devon (or any where else) make a note of how much money you spent in the local area. In your emails to the ******s in charge make sure you let them that this money is now NOT being spent in areas where kiting is banned.

 

And if that doesn't work we will just have to get 1000 or so people to show up and start boarding/buggying.

 

Did anyone see the show about life guards in Perrenporth the other night? They couldn't stop kids jumping off the cliffs but they seem to be able to stop people kiting? Is it me

 

Let's start getting more demanding with councils etc. None of this please Mr council member what going on... How about " I pay way too much council tax and you are discriminatiing and penalising me because you do not understand the difference between a land yaught and a landboard/buggy. Can I please see the risk assesment at X beach that resulted in the ban?"

[egg]

wot a b*gger!!

funny though landboarding/buggying have been banned there for ages, every time i've been down theres been loads of people doing it! (ahem including me once or twice) and i've never heard of anyone being fined or even being confronted about it!

maybe its just a way of covering their backs and nothing will be done if people do continue to fly there!?

such a shame as it has always seemed to be the most perfect beach for kite sports i've seen in this country!

as for croyde, i've landboarded there a couple of times with no hassle from anyone (including the lovely lovely ruda folks!!) its a bit small though!

think i'm gonna move to new zealand. 90 mile beach is calling me!!

[Agger]

Hi Jon,

last year whilst on holiday at Wooly I witnessed a kitesurfer getting into trouble, even took quite a few photo's (I'll see if I can find them over the weekend) anyway the guy was travelling from Puttsborough to Wooly on his board, when he got taken onto the rocks which are halfway up the beach towards Morthoe:eek:

 

He crashed his kite onto the rocks and the local Life savers left there post on the beach to come and yell at the kitesurfer, who had and was by this time recovering his kite along with the help of another guy.

 

My point is why do they allow kitesurfing ? because, this guy had taken the life savers away from there post on the beach, in other words the thousands of people, kids etc on the beach had to rely on the life saving ability of only one crew, as I expect you know there are two life saving crews in high season.

 

I for one believe it is because when they are on the water, the "enforcers" can't catch them:eek: .

 

I'm sorry to say it again but unless WE ALL get organised and have one National body without splinter groups we will lose most of the currently available sites:eek: . If you fly a kite on land, water or elswhere your a kite flier and as such should have one National body with sub sections, not different groups.

 

Controversial bit:eek: do we ever see a return for our money that we pay to these groups ????? have you ever claimed or genuinly know someone who has claimed or had a claim made against them ???? I doubt it

 

 

Woolacombe does not allow land traction (have never given their reasons why not either) yet allows kitesurfing,

Jon

 

 

Oh and by the way before anyone thinks I'm anti kite surfing, read it again, if you fly a kite you are a kite flier and as such a fellow buddy:)

[rayens]

I'm sorry to say it again but unless WE ALL get organised and have one National body without splinter groups we will lose most of the currently available sites . If you fly a kite on land, water or elswhere your a kite flier and as such should have one National body with sub sections, not different groups.

 

 

Couldnt agree with you more - As far as i am aware at the moment we have the following National Bodies

 

BKFA - British Kite Flying association - trying to represent all forms of kite flying with limited interest from various groups -http://www.bkfa.org.uk/. But at least they are having meetings and trying to get organised

 

PKSF - say they represent Power Kites as a National Body. Never seen any action, policy or anything else

 

BBC - sells insurance - anyone know what else they do

 

PKA - racing buggies ?

 

Fed - racing buggies, landyachts , limited beach access. At least they have some beaches saved but only for their members

 

BKSF - kite surfing - world domination now put on the back burner

 

and Im sure I have forgotten some others

 

No doubt this will start a barage of abuse and moans about each group but I dont care.

 

Cant you somehow forget all the egos and invested interests and just form one body that can benefit all kiters and works on keeping the flying sites open.

 

Or many more places will follow Saunton

 

 

[/rant]

[Agger]

At last another person with the common sense approach:cool: Al are we the only two ????

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No doubt this will start a barage of abuse and moans about each group but I dont care.

 

Cant you somehow forget all the egos and invested interests and just form one body that can benefit all kiters and works on keeping the flying sites open.

 

Or many more places will follow Saunton

 

 

[/rant]

[kiteboard_kid]

Surely if a large enough petition was made surely they couldnt ignore it. There are currently 7,200 members on this forum and surely each of those people can get at least 5 signatures (coz if we lose a good beach we'll drive friends and family mad talking about it so therefore they have a vested interest too) So thats 36,000 signatures. Also one national body sounds like a v.good idea

[Flossie]

Not least, because this is my local area, but also because the issue regarding kite bans is getting more and more serious, I am more than happy to send emails, sign petition etc etc

 

BUT - could someone give me some kind of an idea of the wording for an email to local MP - never having done it before and I don't want to "say the wrong thing" or go off at a tangent Many thanks

[mickjones]

BUT - could someone give me some kind of an idea of the wording for an email to local MP - never having done it before and I don't want to "say the wrong thing" or go off at a tangent Many thanks

 

flossie, i should write to him whatever YOUR personal concern is

 

its better that we dond adhere to a formulaic letter type as the argument we are trying to make would lose momentum after the 15th (or whatever) identikit letter

 

just make sure you cover all the points that area concerning you, (restriction of freedom to practice a green safe sport, loss of tourist income for saunton etc..) and ask when we can expect to see some action being taken

 

PS

 

someone on this thread mentioned getting 1000's of kiters to all turn up to the beach - protest is a great idea!! :)

[SandMonster]

I don't have an example to hand, but it is better to write your own words as MPs are allowed to ignore any letters that are just copies and part of some bulk mailing campaign.

 

Keep it short, try and relate it to some government policy if you can as if they decide it is just a local matter they will just politely refer you to the local council or whoever. Ask the MP to take some specific action (eg talk to the sports/tourist minister etc.) as if the letter just complains about something, they again will just say thanks for telling me & not feel they have to do anything. make sure you give your full name & address.

 

Think about using http://www.faxyourmp.com/ as a fax counts as a letter, MPs can still ignore e-mails.

[Jamie Mac]

All the replies are great, its amazing the response this has caused.

 

One thing to say is that we are very actively on the case as a group of local kiters who need to use Saunton.

 

We are meeting tonight in Braunton (White Lion Pub, 8pm) – everyone welcome. At this meeting we will disuse what we have found out regarding the legal maters, and also appoint a working group to take forward a club structure.

 

One thing that we really would say is please don’t hassle Christie estates directly, we have delt with them before and feel its much better that they are contacted by one local body that represents all kite sports users of the beach.

 

Thanks for all your e-mails and comments we will keep everyone up to date.

 

Many thanks

 

Andy.

[BrianCalshot]

when is kitesurfing ....kitesurfing? if I'm standing on the beach head to foot in neoprene, flying my sexy storm3 with my board under my arm ....am I kitesurfing?

 

Or I have my car keys in my pocket, my car in the car park and 8 pints of lager in my belly ... am I drink driving?

 

I am not actually kitesurfing until I'm in the water or I am not the lowest form of life until I get in the car!

 

Christies estate dont have control over the sea.

 

We are a little better off than land kiters as we have more protection by the law ...mainly seafarers rights which allows us to land on any beach in the country whether private or crown!

[LoKi_79]

i'm really gutted i can't get up to braunton tonight, but i've got other commitments.

 

i'd like to sign the petition in person, rather than send an email. if anyone wants a lift up to braunton next weekend from exeter'ish then pm me.

 

also, i'm up for a protest on the beach if anyone is counting numbers [and i can bring a few mates as well.] if it's done properly i think it will help a lot, but we don't want to get any more people against us - so best to tread reasonably carfully.