rgbartlett

It does look like a clearout, and it's not all new, but as I said I'm sure the shops would gladly have taken this kit as discounted kit and sold it at such, so everyone gets some money and the link from customer > shop is retained. Also, selling other kit just means they (like every other manufacturer) bought some competitor kites to see what they were up against and/or imitate/copy/steal (depending on your point of view). My point was (a) why not have an ebay storefront like every other company on ebay, (b) why not use the name flexifoil, and © why not shift this kit through the shops, still making money for yourself but retaining your customers and keeping the whole manufacturer > retailer > consumer chain intact rather than bypassing it just to get a bit more margin. Anyway, I'll shuttup now, not that bothered really, I was just surprised at the front. Best just wait and see who comes out with new kit in the shops, Flexifoil or Mutiny Kites!

It doesn't look like just a clearout to me when they're selling brand new accessories, but I take your point about old models. What I find odd though is I'm sure the shops would have jumped at the chance to sell this gear (as some have in the past). Those same shops have sold old stock via ebay, and been jumped on by the manufacturer, and now the manufacturer is doing it themselves in competition with the shops. This isn't selling stuff off the main website at premium price for those who prefer that route, it's flogging some brand new and some seconds gear at low prices, and doing it not as 'Flexifoil' with a ebay store front, but under the radar, masquerading as an indivual seller (see the descriptions which start "I'm selling .."). Just doesn't seem like they care that much about their kitesurf shops in the UK to me.

I was just looking around to see what Flexifoil gear was for sale (prompted by kitingcolin's thread http://forum.kitecrowd.com/kitesurfing/any-body-spending-cash-kites-179655.html) and spotted someone who only seems to sell Flexifoil gear, all of it brand new, from Chessington in Surrey, with the innocuous name kitegear-2008. 'Who could this be?' I thought. Had a quick look at the photos and sure enough I recognised the Flexifoil warehouse in the Ion photos. So Flexifoil, who I understand took a hard line on shops using eBay, is now using an eBay account to flog it's gear in presumably direct competition with their own shops (for example they're flogging an Ion4 10.5 Fire with a starting price of £250 when Powerkiteshop are trying to sell it for £700). They don't even seem to have the stones to be up front about it and use their own name and setup an eBay storefront. Is this it for Flexifoil shops now? If the manufacturer is in direct competition with them (something I always thought was a big 'no no' in kiting) then do they all just shut up shop, forcing kiters to buy direct? I can see why the owners of Flexifoil might like that (big fat margin), but I can't see how it would be good for kiters or kiting. Shops provide all the value add that manufacturers can't (informed selling, the right kite for the kiter, lessons, advice on technique and safety equipment etc. etc.) As Flexifoil only seems to have about 4 employees of which 1 actually knows knows what a quick release does, they can't offer that service, so who will if the manufacturer drives the shops to the wall? Probably going to get slapped for this thread, but I thought it was the height of hypocrisy to compete with your own customers in selling direct to the cosumers over ebay.

I was trying to think of words that expressed my state of mind having scanned this document quickly (reading it frankly made my head hurt) .. and everything I came up sounded ironic: "Holy crap!", "Oh my god!", "Jeez" .. and I had to settle on "Completely chicken oriental". It's sad, but I have to say whenever I come across the varying levels of rabidity (is that a word?) of the more extreme fringes of Christanity I always think "Why do we think Islan is the religion of extremism?" Spend time amongst the more delusional of our Christian brethren and you'll quickly change your mind. You wouldn't even need to find one, just look up some of the more far out preachers on the TV circuit in the US. The question is, if her local pastor/vicar/preacher was aware of this book, or her apparent psychosis and the way she views her religion, would they help her get treatment for her mental health issues, or would they encourage it as 'faith'?

Fair enough Al, thanks for confirming. I'll probably still want to grab myself a SWATK insurance as I'm still dying to get back to Brean, but when I'll get round to it I have no idea! Maybe when the temperature hits double figures again Now I've got to sort out insurance with someone else though .. any recommendations anyone? BPKA or BKSA?

I have to ask .. as I'm sure many people will want to know, why does SWATK insurance not provide the required cover?

I can imagine this thread is pissing some people of SOOO much. It's quite amusing really! Looking forward to see who rides for Mutiny, and what they come out with. I don't think it's going to be 'the norm'.

Like I said, it has to be commercial (that's the definition of a business as opposed to a non-profit organisation), but a company dedicated to good product, if it has good marketing, will sell (I'm sure quite a few people are fed up with poor quality products and failures of kit on the beach). I think the grass roots approach can also bear fruit if there's a natural swell of support for a new company from people who know the people who run it are capable of great things.

They're looking for riders btw Team Mutiny – Mutiny Kites

Good to see Mutiny Kites launch, I'm sure that's caused a bit of a stir. It'll be nice to see someone new on the market, a company dedicated to good product, ethical production and an eco approach. I think kiting is suffering from being too commercial, not that it can't be (it has to be) but that overwhelming commercial approach is stifling innovation (you can't experiment and stretch the boundaries if everything you do has to generate $$$). Also loving the blog website, not many companies let people follow them throughout their design and testing process! Ref riders, with that pedigree I suspect some of the big riders will be dying to ride their kites, but don't expect a big team, expect an good team.

Yup, how things have changed. The good ol' days when Woo and the magical kite repair fairies could achieve miracles (including Blades yanked forcefully out of trees and every bridle trashed) are long gone. Now you'd get better customer service out of Virgin Broadband!

Nope, he won't, because he left, months ago. My guess is if WD are doing all UK distribution they're also doing all UK repair, so go to your shop (if they can do it themselves), put up with the wait, or vote with your feet and buy another brand next time.

I think there's a lot of people who might actually prefer it this way, and I know there are a lot of people who left the forums because it became a puerile playground for a minority, and actual discussion on kiting by people who kited was so frequently hijacked by random and unfunny rubbish that they gave up. The bar zone was intended for that sort of content but there wasn't many threads in kite buggying, kite landboarding etc. which didn't end up descending into total toss, and 95% of the time it was the same frequent posters doing it. The forums will evolve based on it's user base, and if people leave because it doesn't match their requirements then others will join or rejoin because it does. I have to say, it does sound a little bit odd being so depressed about a lack of banter on a niche sport web based forum, but I suppose it just goes to show the power of the interweb. (P.S. posting at 4:58 due to work related insomnia on a day off .. arse)

He's right (though I can't guarantee the time manufacturing moved). Not that this is a bad thing though, it's simple economics, your Blade IV would have cost roughly twice what it did if it was built here. The only reason you can afford half the luxury goods you buy is because it's made by people who earn a fraction that you would here.

OK, in person, though you still do a fine line in abuse, cynical observations and sarcasm in person as well. None finer really, you should be on telly

Actually shot, I've got some kick ass cold and I'm alternatly deaf in one ear, then the other. You should see the gross stuff coming out of my throat every time I cough. Crap .. I'm on the forums again aren't I? I'm wasting precious outdoor time indoors talking to someone who's primary method of communication is abuse. Must .. drag .. myself .. away .. from .. keyboard.

I'm so filled with emotion Spar, it's like you're here right in front of me I really have to change that name back again, it's still appropriate, though I've got this unsightly lardy area in the middle now (the rest is still stik like).

There's nothing I know of in law which stops your information being transferred between commercial parties. I can go on marketingfile.com and purchase a list of peoples names, addresses and other information, because it was legally obtained in the first place and the terms and conditions under which it was obtained allowed this. In this case worrying about information being transferred which was deposited voluntarily by yourself in order to login to the forums seems daft, considering that's the only use to which it will be put. Neil's not going to sell your names, email addresses and dates of birth to someone because that's not the basis under which the information was originally solicited! To be honest (see harry a's thread) most people give away tons of personal information through ill considered use of social network tools including myspace, facebook and similar sites.

Has someone a bit grumpy this morning? Not had your first coffee of the day? .. hang on .. what am I talking about, it's Spar, of course he's grumpy.

Yes, but lets try and avoid the 'mass slagging' of Flexifoil products just because we can! What about more constructive comparisons instead, which actually HELP people, as well as expressing an opinion. For example: "In my opinion the Ozone Frenzy FYX kicks the Sabre II's ass, but fly both and see which you prefer. You could also look at the HQ Montana IV, or even an Ozone Flow if you're a beginner".

I'm saying nowt However, if you really want to know the detailed financial details on any company, go to http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk, search for the company name, then buy whatever report you're interested in. It's not even expensive, £1 per report.

It was Craig, and after that (for a limited time) me. Wow. I'm back. Debanned. Free. I would just point out the obvious which only Geoff has touched on, this forum was probably under considerable threat over the last six months, because it caused Flexifoil more trouble than revenue, and they didn't really have the resources to cope with it. Neil has recognised that this is the largest collection of kiters online anywhere in the world (no research behind that, but I don't know of a bigger and wider reaching kite forum), and it would a good thing for the kiting community to preserve it. This way, the forum has a long life, independent of all manufacturers, and we can still arrange meets, advertise events, sell gear, talk techie, talk total b0ll0x and waste hours of our life. All at what seems to be a much faster speed I have to say! Go Ras, though I would suggest the moderation aims to bring back the 'information exchange/help/real debate' side of the forums and if possible reduce the mindless tat side, if that's at all possible. It's a tricky call though, but worth it. If people feel they can engage in real grown up debate and get actual information (not "they're gay, buy my brand") then more people will post (and kite) and it's all good.

It was Craig, and after that (for a limited time) me. Wow. I'm back. I would just point out the obvious which only Geoff has touched on, this forum was probably under threat at some point, because it caused Flexifoil more trouble than revenue. Neil has recognised that this is the largest collection of kiters online anywhere in the world (no research behind that, but I don't know of a bigger and wider reaching kite forum), and it would a good thing for the kiting community to preserve it. This way, the forum has a long life, independent of all manufacturers, and we can still arrange meets, advertise events, sell gear, talk techie, talk total b0ll0x and waste hours of hour life. All at what seems to be a much faster speed I have to say! Go Ras, though I would suggest the moderation aims to bring back the 'information exchange/help/real debate' side of the forums and if possible reduce the mindless tat side, if that's at all possible.

Hang on .. where's Craig and his big thread killing stick? All the other threads which might be taken as critical of Flexifoil's board of directors were just trashed with a vengeance. He's missed this one! Here Sparkles .. here boy .. (quick .. archive this now before it gets Craigalised )

I'm not listening to a grapevine, this is from first hand accounts, people who worked there.