peterlynn or lei

[AireaFlyer]

hi ive just started kitesurfing, and i have been using my frenzys went to sandbanks in poole last weekend was doin well until i dropped me kite into the drink,

 

thinking of getting a water relaunchable whats the best venom phantom or a lei

 

any chance of some advice

 

cheers

[kiteaholic]

if you just started, peter lynn will better suit you seeing as it auto zenith which means you can let go of the bar and kite will stay above your head no matter what. lei will make you go bigger but launching/relaunching alot more difficult then pl kites. both have ups or downs but for user friendliness i would take a pl like a venom

[gregh]

try them both, I find my Waroo easier to launch/relaunch compared to the Phantom I had.

[Coopes]

Lots of pros & cons for both, if you can try them both before you buy then its a bonus, then its down to personal choice. The one thing that does make the difference for learning is the auto-zenith on the Peter Lynn.

[doc]

i'd recommend a peter lynn kite bud as auto zennith means u got one less thing to think about and u got a lot of things to think abpout when u r gettin into the water.

[enterusername]

go bow itl be easy and safer to learn on. and will last as you progress, u will not outgrow it. something like instinct,waroo,nova2,turbo diesel, rebel,ion,atom(very soon) etc etc

[The Geoff]

Peter Lynn Arc Pros:

*Auto zenith - let go of the bar and in most circumstances the kite will return to the zeith and sit there. Makes them more difficult to crash into the water.

*No pumping

*Newer ones, Venoms and the like, have a huge depower range, at least comparable with bows and far more than C kites.

*Crash them on land and they're not going to break as easily as an LEI. Also cheaper to fix if they do.

*More compact when packed up (if you take the spars out and break them down)

*Almost 100% loss of power when you pull the safety.

 

Peter Lynn Arc Cons:

*Performance is not generally as grunty as an LEI, you often have to work the kite a lot more (they produce a big chunk of power through airspeed), and there's a bit of a delay in ower generation.

*Auto zenith (see above!) If you let go of the bar the kite won't stay "locked in place". Letting go of the bar when you screw up is also a really bad habit to get into if you then pick up a C kite.

*Water relaunch can be a bit hit and miss until you get the technique nailed.

 

I got a Venom 13m mainly for use on land but with a view to surfing with it too, and now I've started on water it's great. I may well get an LEI sometime in the future, but for learning it's perfectly good. If you're only going to be on water I'd say get an LEI, if you want to use it on land too, go with an Arc.

 

EDIT: Just realised you're using a Frenzy too - if you've got a decent foil for land then go with an LEI.

[Redmini]

go lei much safer better water relaunch

[the_lone_wolf]

if you've got a decent foil for land then go with an LEI.

agreed...

 

it's generally better to buy kites that are specifically designed for the purpose, as kitesurfing and landboarding require different aspects of the kite to be more pronounced - the frenzy is a good land based kite but totally unsuitable for water use, by getting a moderate aspect ratio LEI with a 5th line from the last couple of years specifically for the water you'll do much better than on an arc:)

[Ted]

I own both Venoms and an LEI for a longtime. Much prefer the Venoms and I'm selling the LEI. I fly on the water now only. Best KSer i've seen on the water in the last 3 years was riding a Venom 16. They last longer and hold their value better than inflatables. Don't buy Phantom or Guerilla though. Would recommend a Venom.

[adamski]

Venom2.

LEIs are great, loads of power and pop...the V2 is closer than any arc previously though.

 

Water relaunch? it's actually quite hard to make them sit down when you are recovering from a splashdown... I have dunked mine 3 times, each time they have bounced up off the water.

You wont be needing or wanting your frenzy after a couple of sessions with the V2, almost impossible to luff them, the amazing autozen will make you giggle, just let go of the bar and the kite will bob about above your head with virtually no power.

 

Down sides? Well, not that great under 10-13 mph tbh..... you need board speed under that.

 

Oh... I do have other brands too, usually including an LEI or two, they just don't get used much:D

[scots_flyer]

Venom 2 - forgiving, predictable, huge depower, super stable all-terrain kite. Having used LEIs, foils and arcs I'd say at least try one. . . . . .

[BeachBeat]

Started on a wipika freeair a few years back - didn't get on with it so went with Peter Lynns. Had S-Arcs and then Bombas. They are very user friendly & don't fall out of the sky (Hindenburg) in a sudden lull - this is a common occurrence for beginner LEI users. They are also very easy to self land and launch safely. For me they were the perfect kite for progressing on - I'm pleased I went down the PL route.

 

However, their light wind performance is not good - they will fly in next to nothing but don't produce enough power. Don't expect to get good performance in under 15 mph even in the larger sizes.

 

For this reason I have just sold my 17m Bomba and will replace with a bow kite (still demoing different kites but they all seem very good).

 

My recommendation is if money is an issue then get a second hand PL rather than an LEI. If you can afford to buy new then try some bow kites.

[ANGELZ]

I started off on a 10m Venom, I think its a great beginer kite as the auto zenith gives you time to get your board on your feet and think about what your doing without having to think about what your kite is doing and the fact you can just let go when wipein out is also reasuring. I hated launching them though, it can be well dodgy! I never ditched it so cant comment on the water relaunch but have seen others, they do eventually get back in the air and need a little flyin time to dry out but thats it. Once up riding you do have to work the kite more than a LEI and there is a slight delay in reaction.

I now fly Fusions, which I love, they react soon as you think it, you can just feel where the kite is and hardly need to work it, there is no question about the consistent power they give U.

There was a average size guy with a small girlfriend on the beach, he was a good rider and she was a beginer, they had just bought a new 9m Takoon, this kite was perferct for them both as it gave him the power he neeed but also gave her the depower and safety she needed so find details on them.

[harry_a]

id have to say LEI..... more power more lift, easier relaunch, cheap second hand. direct comparison is my 15m peter lynn arc made in 2002, and my friends 14m airblast LEI made in 2002....... the inflatable is faster turning pulls harder and lifts more. and if youre buying an old kite and inflatable is so much easier to repair if ripped etc than an arc. plus dont listen to all this popped bladder crap when using on land... we abuse the inflatable loads and it hasnt popped.

[Howard Marks]

If you think about it Auto zenith can be very dangerous. I have been in situations where I am glad my kite crashes and stays on the water. For example if you fall off in front of an obstical such as rocks or the beach, the last thing you really want is for your kite to keep dragging you as it finds the top of the window. Neil Ingle had exactly this problem with his venom and it nearly put him off kitesurfing. Now he uses a couple of bow kites and his confidence is comming back.

 

Plus it really pisses me off that all these beginners are stood in the shallows when it's onshore and light with massive arcs auto zenithed...they have no idea how to keep their kites low.

 

May be next years designs should come with warnings on for other kiters. If you see a real leash and Arc stay at least 50m UPWIND of them..oh don't forget the homemade board too!

 

Before you all go mad I am only joking! I know that everyone has to start somewhere but with all these second hand Bows and LEI up for sale at great prices, you may be able to afford to have a set of land and water kites.

 

Look for second hand 05 leis with trimmable 5th line or SLE's such as the Sonic, Waroo, Ion you will find some real bargins to be had. Make sure though that you meet up on a beach to inspect the kite if you can and if you don't know what to be looking for take a friend who does.

 

Good luck and have fun ... kitesurfing ROCKS

[KiteItRight]

bow bow bow

they speed us learning curve dramitically.

 

dont go for a foil... i have seen one all summer... few ppl have them which means it wil be harder to sell

[Johndango]

I would say go LEI...

You will find a good medium aspect one a lot more responsive compared to a foil / twin skin. They are also very easy to launch if you have a launch buddy or not that hard to self launch. I used to fly a guerilla and found it fine (appart from the turning speed!!) but I felt a lot safer self launching it than with help!

I quite like the look of these hybrid bows. I'll have to try one. It was a bit gusty Tuesday when I last went out and got blown off the water once with my fuel so the idea of being able to ditch the power is quite appealing in those conditions. Still I am quite new to it. But I think learning on a C kite is still worth while as you see some people getting away with very bad body positions when learning with bows as the can just ditch the power.

For light winds I would go with C shape too. I don't know if it is just the ones that I have seen. But I have seen people have all sorts problems flying bows in light winds - they just seem to stall and fall out the sky. They also had real problems trying to water relaunch them! I was ok with a slingshot machine...

[paulie_amoose]

But I think learning on a C kite is still worth while as you see some people getting away with very bad body positions when learning with bows as the can just ditch the power.

 

This is something I also noticed with people learning on bows, you dont need to edge to control the power as the kite does it all therefore they ride the board flat and get in the habit of having a really bad looking stance....

 

Almost like crouching down to take a sh!t in the woods....

[Howard Marks]

All beginners do that really..I do it too when I unhook! (did my first unhooked backloop yesterday!) ...was in 14 knots on a big board though. You can still ride them like c kites with the bar to your hip and lean back if you like..I do!

 

I fly a 9m Waroo pro in light winds (13-14 knots) with a 135 x 44 board and stay upwind. When it picked up to 22 knots I was getting sweet hangtime and pop off waves on the same board. A guy off the beach borrowed my kite and on his second run he did what he claims to be the biggest jump he has ever done....that was on a new kite and board he had never ridden before.

 

So if you want to go from beginner to expert freestyler in less time I think a hybrid Sle is the way to go.

[marman]

hi there

 

i have recently started kitesurfing and have moved from a 13m and 16m venom to a 12m waroo

 

must say the venoms are at first more user friendly kites and until i owned the waroo they were my most preferred kite out of others i had tried, especially in gusty conditions...

 

however like many bows the depower on these babies is insane, you can set the kite up so if you are going to fast or are in a sticky situation... let the bar out and the kite slowly flutters down onto a wingtip waiting for you to relaunch from the water with ease...

 

although i have never used my venoms on the water i feel safer knowing my kite can sit there as long as i want and it will take off and loose all water in seconds... no bow ties AND.. i can grab the OSH to keep the kite on the water unlike the venom

 

i have now had maybe 3-4 sessions on the water and have progressed from 2m drags in the safety of a harbour to good upwind, big inverts and have just started rotations and now feel alot safer venchuring further offshore in more wavey and exciting condtions

 

have managed to get away with the one kite so far aswell, can get planning in about 12mph and have flown to 28mph, i know that you would need alot more venom to cover that range

 

whatever you decide

 

fly safe and have fun... surfing does indeed.. KICK ARSE

 

marcus

 

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/1628/waroofh3.jpg

[jugglerjon]

If you think about it Auto zenith can be very dangerous.

 

I disagree, the autozenith feature only happens when the kite is at the edge of the window. It will slowly drift up if pointing up or down if pointing down. All kites I've flown, if in the centre of the wind and piloted to the edge will genrate a power spike and you will get dragged. The difference being that if you let go of the bar with an arc it might be sitting nicely ready for you ride off again.

 

Back to main thread - I love my arc for learning kitesurfing with, and feel I'm progressing with it. performance a plenty, loads of depower only thing is they need a fair bit of wind to get you going on water. The autozenith enables you to get to grips with getting the board on your feet initially without having to worry to much about kite control. Love my arc.

 

I would like to try a bow/sle or whatever they are called but no bow flier will go near now me as they'll spot the arc, the homemade / old fashioned board and helmet( no reel leash.... yet) seriously I would like to try them out they look good.

 

Try before you buy - you might get lucky like I did with my V but you could also get a right pig that doesn't suit your needs.

 

Jon

[marman]

i offered a go on mine! shame the wind died lol

 

you remember watching me struggle the first session i had? what a mess! lol aaahhhh

[jugglerjon]

You did offer me a go however that was before Howard Marks ruined the reputation of all arc/homemade/dodgy board users . Next time marman. I'll Defo have a go.

 

Yep remember that session to be fair there was SFA wind about and you were still getting up nearly. You still riding that funkly assed board?

 

I had a blinding session on my v10 last night at cleggy, the best I've done yet. No walking and some decent jumps (for me) and hitting some nice big (for me ) waves out near the sand fort. If there is enough wind this afternoon might try and be more adventurous and go for a 360 to big splash.

 

Jon

[marman]

good stuff... still got it yea, that was what i held down to 28mph eeeekkk

 

got a 128 nobile 555 comming any day...