Mell1599968579 Posted July 14, 2005 Report Posted July 14, 2005 *************************************** This thread has been deleted as it now transcends the boundaries of what is permissible on the forum. Any information can be found on www.britishbuggyclub.co.uk or if any specific answers or questions are required please email mell@britishbuggyclub.c.uk Please remember that emails are private and between correspondents and not for posting on the forum. *************************************** Quote
SandMonster Posted July 14, 2005 Report Posted July 14, 2005 DO NOT COPY AND PASTE ANYWHERE ELSE Hmmm... ....oh the temptation......now where can I repost this?... ....(joking - sorry) Keep up the good work Quote
Simon Bailey Posted July 14, 2005 Report Posted July 14, 2005 I presume that you, by the absence of specific details, are not including clubs that are covered by the Fed in the statement " The points re-posted apply to ALL clubs who are not yet affiliated and any events etc that are held in their name." Quote
Roger Melly Posted July 14, 2005 Report Posted July 14, 2005 Seems like I missed all of the previous discussions etc (away again and will be away again shortly) It's a good job somebody told you. The points re-posted apply to ALL clubs who are not yet affiliated and any events etc that are held in their name. That come across as an arrogant view. "Not yet"! Are you seriously expecting clubs to affiliate? Once the question of insurance has been addressed, what benefit will affiliation gain.? DO NOT COPY AND PASTE ANYWHERE ELSE Don't post on an open forum then. 1) If a club is created and affiliates to the BBC etc all of its members are covered by the BBC then the committee et al are covered. Can you tell me process that SEKA would take to affiliate? (Sport England Constitution attached). Where? 2) If a club is created but not yet affiliated then it is liable for anything that happens under its club name. However if all of the members are covered as individuals then they are still insured no matter what. (b) Correct. The only clubs we provide indemnity for are those that have been notified to us & accepted by PKSF. In consequence, if a non-recognised club/group/event is sued in that name there is no cover. Individual members, however, would be covered if they were personally sued. It should be mentioned that if a group/club were sued due the the actions of a member, they cannot pass on their legal liability at law to the member. If they are found negligent in any way then they would have to meet the claim or their portion thereof. I know about liability. You learn alot whilst looking for insurance.... 3) or is it that if they belong to an unaffiliated club, their own insurance becomes null and void? © Not correct. An individual members cover is valid providing the remit of the Governing Body does not preclude them from entering into non-recognised events. i.e. If the BBC/BKSA state in their remit that members are only covered for participating in those events/club activities that have been sanctioned by them then no cover. If, however, there is nothing in the remit of BBC/BKSA with regards to this then in my opinion the member is merely engaged in the sport as an individual & would be covered. Mell Then why was a threat made that BBC members may lose cover if they continued to attend events organised by a non-affiliated club? Quote
MadAndy71 Posted July 14, 2005 Report Posted July 14, 2005 It's a good job somebody told you. That come across as an arrogant view. "Not yet"! Are you seriously expecting clubs to affiliate? Once the question of insurance has been addressed, what benefit will affiliation gain.? Don't post on an open forum then. Can you tell me process that SEKA would take to affiliate? Where? I know about liability. You learn alot whilst looking for insurance.... Then why was a threat made that BBC members may lose cover if they continued to attend events organised by a non-affiliated club? WHAT? THEY THREATENED TO NULL AND VOID OUR INSURANCE IF WE ATTENEDED A NON BBC EVENT? Quote
Roger Melly Posted July 14, 2005 Report Posted July 14, 2005 WHAT? THEY THREATENED TO NULL AND VOID OUR INSURANCE IF WE ATTENEDED A NON BBC EVENT? Allegedly. Quote
Andy S Posted July 14, 2005 Report Posted July 14, 2005 3) or is it that if they belong to an unaffiliated club, their own insurance becomes null and void? [/font][/color][/b]© Not correct. An individual members cover is valid providing the remit of the Governing Body does not preclude them from entering into non-recognised events. i.e. If the BBC/BKSA state in their remit that members are only covered for participating in those events/club activities that have been sanctioned by them then no cover. If, however, there is nothing in the remit of BBC/BKSA with regards to this then in my opinion the member is merely engaged in the sport as an individual & would be covered. MellSorry, but this says nothing in substance. It says (paraphrasing) If a BBC member attends any event that has not specifically been sanctioned by the BBC (i.e. Wallop as far as I'm aware), they are covered IN MELLS OPINION as long as the BBC hasn't specifically said they can't in their remit. The issues I have are: 1) What does the BBC say in terms of their remit 2) Although I respect Mell and his opinion, he isn't my insurer and I wouldn't like a claim against me where I was relying on saying "but Mell told me he thought it was OK..." going through... Quote
MadAndy71 Posted July 14, 2005 Report Posted July 14, 2005 Allegedly. Lucky I dont intend to renew my membership with the BBC then Quote
Roger Melly Posted July 14, 2005 Report Posted July 14, 2005 Lucky I dont intend to renew my membership with the BBC then I've heard theres an alternative now..... Quote
MadAndy71 Posted July 14, 2005 Report Posted July 14, 2005 I've heard theres an alternative now..... Can you post some links please bud? Dont care much for MW/FW cover as it was but I still would want all the 3rd party liability etc. Cheers Quote
Roger Melly Posted July 14, 2005 Report Posted July 14, 2005 Can you post some links please bud? Dont care much for MW/FW cover as it was but I still would want all the 3rd party liability etc. Cheers I'll PM you. Wouldn't want to create hysteria would we? There are no links just yet... soon though... patience is a virtue....... Quote
MadAndy71 Posted July 14, 2005 Report Posted July 14, 2005 I'll PM you. Wouldn't want to create hysteria would we? There are no links just yet... soon though... patience is a virtue....... Cheers. Best clear your inbox too. I guess you'll get quite a few enquiries with it being as good as you said. Quote
spooky Posted July 14, 2005 Report Posted July 14, 2005 Hi I may be missing something, but my understanding is Individual cover, ie £15 BBC/PKSF membership covers you for when you are kiting for your self? Club affiliation/insurance is to cover the club (and the committee etc) for anything that is being organised by the club, ie an event? So there should be no issues of insurance conflict, as if you are there for a "weekly" get together that is not an organised event and as such individuals would be liable? Somethig like MW, or X-Zone where you are attendeing and having to pay a fee to take part, then it would be the club/orgainsation that organised it that woudl be liable? Out come, every individual should have insurance, If you want to (or are forced to) form a club then affiliate? (NB If you are forced to would it be worth asking the council for assistance in fees or what ever to become affiliated?). Am I missing something or I'm I trying to make it to simple? I agree teh FED is another issue, but as they have to have specifed sites and have to be a member to use them then I take it the insurance thing not an issue, as such? Jon Quote
Jabberwock Posted July 14, 2005 Report Posted July 14, 2005 All very well and good mell - Great job you do too IF we were ALLOWED to be affiliated to the BBC 18 months ago - we could have had a vibrant and thriving club with all of the 250 members being allowed to buggy and board wherever they wanted and us holding events whilst maintaining the status quo for The PKSF / BBC / PKA / ITV / whoever. However now we have the situation where you wouldnt / couldnt / didnt provide us with the much sought after (and worked hard for ) affiliation. so we have gone elsewhere for affiliation. Since your monkey decided to provoke the response he got - its a shame you didnt get to read the whole thread posted previously - there were valid comments posted IMHO. It may appear to be that I am anti BBC - quite the opposite - I am not (Neither, are the club or committee of SWATK as far as I know) I suspect most of our members will continue to take out BBC insurance - for the sake of "There is no such thing as too much Insurance" if nothing else. That said - our policy does cover us for static flying which I am told the BBC's doesnt (However - I would be greatful if you would post me a copy of the BBC policy so I could check exactly what it DOES cover so I can make a more informed choice as to whether I actually need both sets of insurance?) Quote
Roger Melly Posted July 14, 2005 Report Posted July 14, 2005 Hi I may be missing something, but my understanding is Individual cover, ie £15 BBC/PKSF membership covers you for when you are kiting for your self? Club affiliation/insurance is to cover the club (and the committee etc) for anything that is being organised by the club, ie an event? So there should be no issues of insurance conflict, as if you are there for a "weekly" get together that is not an organised event and as such individuals would be liable? Hi Jon unfortunately there are issues. It would seem "get togethers" may appear as club sanctioned gatherings and leave the committee with open liability. It's complicated and i'm not the best person to describe it to you. Safe to say, it's a minefield. Somethig like MW, or X-Zone where you are attendeing and having to pay a fee to take part, then it would be the club/orgainsation that organised it that woudl be liable? |Yep. Out come, every individual should have insurance, If you want to (or are forced to) form a club then affiliate? (NB If you are forced to would it be worth asking the council for assistance in fees or what ever to become affiliated?). Am I missing something or I'm I trying to make it to simple? Affiliation isn't that simple. If you are a club with more than 1 flying site then you can't affiliate. You would be required to break up the club into smaller clubs and each one would be affiliated. I agree teh FED is another issue, but as they have to have specifed sites and have to be a member to use them then I take it the insurance thing not an issue, as such? Jon Quote
spooky Posted July 14, 2005 Report Posted July 14, 2005 Hi Roger, cheers for that, more than one flying site?? If only I was so lucky But I see what you mean, sort off, why does the number of sites effect affiliation, as surely it is the club that affiliates not teh site? Ref weekly meets, yes see what you mean about it being a club sanctioned event, in which case affiliation would be the best way to go, just a shame really that it has coem to this where peopel are being forced to join/form a club and then the results can almost be as bad (if not worst) than if you had no club and just people being sencible? Best of luck, Jon P.s Whiel there are clubs that have doen alot for us, I'm starting to feel that as a community when we were threatened in little areas, and forced to form a club, that we shoudl have stood are ground more, as now all these clubs seem to be running into dificulties? Quote
Spook Posted July 14, 2005 Report Posted July 14, 2005 Jon I think you are missing that some of us want to be members of a club, because then we can mix with a much larger group of kiters on a regular basis. I haven't been forced to join anyone, I've done it from choice. Quote
Jabberwock Posted July 14, 2005 Report Posted July 14, 2005 P.s Whiel there are clubs that have doen alot for us, I'm starting to feel that as a community when we were threatened in little areas, and forced to form a club, that we shoudl have stood are ground more, as now all these clubs seem to be running into dificulties? ABSOLUTELY Jon! But the only difficulties we are running into is the fact that we are not allowed to remain as a WHOLE COMMUNITY - we have been forced to go down the route of gaining insurance for ourselves. Its not a difficulty as such - a minor inconvienience (Not being able to hold events for 18 months ) There are knock effects to the community as a whole - but thats a whole other thread. Quote
Dr-Manic Posted July 14, 2005 Report Posted July 14, 2005 Jon I think you are missing that some of us want to be members of a club, because then we can mix with a much larger group of kiters on a regular basis. I haven't been forced to join anyone, I've done it from choice. That and the fact we held a gun to your head;) :D Quote
Roger Melly Posted July 14, 2005 Report Posted July 14, 2005 Hi Roger, cheers for that, more than one flying site?? If only I was so lucky But I see what you mean, sort off, why does the number of sites effect affiliation, as surely it is the club that affiliates not teh site? So that the club can never grow to a point were it is big enough to threaten the BBC's position. Ref weekly meets, yes see what you mean about it being a club sanctioned event, in which case affiliation would be the best way to go, just a shame really that it has coem to this where peopel are being forced to join/form a club and then the results can almost be as bad (if not worst) than if you had no club and just people being sencible? Best of luck, Jon P.s Whiel there are clubs that have doen alot for us, I'm starting to feel that as a community when we were threatened in little areas, and forced to form a club, that we shoudl have stood are ground more, as now all these clubs seem to be running into dificulties? I have to disagree there Jon. Strength through numbers. Clubs are the way forward. They are the ones that will have the wherewithall, determination, money and skills to fight bans and secure sites. I would never force anyone to join SEKA. When we talk to councils etc it is with a view to securing the flying site for everyone to use. Unfortunately, some councils are stipulating a club be formed. Quote
rasga Posted July 14, 2005 Report Posted July 14, 2005 pmslol; oh man this looks so bad, classic! (about the timing of my other thread) note to self : never create a topical thread! Quote
Dr-Manic Posted July 14, 2005 Report Posted July 14, 2005 pmslol; oh man this looks so bad, classic! (about the timing of my other thread) note to self : never create a topical thread! what so the other thread was your own idea wow indepndent thought;) Quote
rasga Posted July 14, 2005 Report Posted July 14, 2005 as much as you find it hard to believe, yes, but seems i just chose the wrong moment to post! (to inspire cahoot theories) Quote
Spook Posted July 14, 2005 Report Posted July 14, 2005 Ras, I think if it was created off your own back then it's just a straw/camel situation... Quote
Roger Melly Posted July 14, 2005 Report Posted July 14, 2005 what so the other thread was your own idea wow indepndent thought;) PMSL @ s :D Quote
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