Guest Anonymous Posted January 21, 2008 Report Posted January 21, 2008 Im curious to know what effect line lengths have on kites... what happens if I change to 20m lines to 25m lines on a 3.5 Cult ? What happens if I change the 25s on the Combat 6m to 20s ? Is this a common mod ? How much affect does wind speed have when deciding line lenghts ? etc.. cheers, Nas. Quote
schultzie Posted January 21, 2008 Report Posted January 21, 2008 shorter lines and the kite turns faster, longer lines then the kite is spending more time in the power zone giving you more pull. as for wind speed and line lengths it does make a big difference inform 10m lines to 25m lines Quote
JKS Posted January 21, 2008 Report Posted January 21, 2008 Short lines will be a little more like your YZ80 ...... long lines more like the XR600 Its certainly not as simple as that .... but I know you will know what I mean Happy Days Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted January 21, 2008 Report Posted January 21, 2008 Beautiful, thanks Schultzie.... nice metaphor JKS, I love a good metaphor. Is there anyone around who might be somewhat well known for this kind of mod ? Is there a line length guru in da house ? Can you get custom lengths made ? What if I want for example...38's on a 3 metre or 17s on a 6m ? is this do-able ? Does breaking strain have to be upped when putting on longer lines ? Is there cheapo line and good line ? whats it called ? Cheers, Nas. Quote
schultzie Posted January 21, 2008 Report Posted January 21, 2008 big grey area there nas... you can make your own lines using sleeving. you can do anything, but weather it is worth it is another question. i know Nigel has played around with this a bit but i do not think it is worth it, for the general kiting you are going to be better off having another sized kite, i know nigel use to put a kite on shorter lines if he thought he was going to be underpowered on a slightly smaller kite, so the kite was out of the power band quicker and making tractable upwind power faster. i personally thing ozone lines are the best i have found and it is all i use, as for increasing breaking strain technically yes... but otherwise nah on the long lines i might increace the leaders and have the breaks light still reduces drag as welll.... ooohhh more line means more drag... also goes with what i said before about kite being slower...... Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted January 21, 2008 Report Posted January 21, 2008 Deffinately not an exact science.. Much thanks for your input/advice Schultzie. Greatly appreciated. Nas. Quote
JKS Posted January 21, 2008 Report Posted January 21, 2008 Would help to have longer lines if .... Kiting down wind to a line of trees or other wind obstruction and you wanted to keep the kite above. If you want to increase the time the kite spends in the power zone. Shorter line advantages.............. In the surf ... when you want power on / power off quickly ... when you want to be able to turn the kite back and forth with more speed Teaching a newbie .... althought the kite is faster, on shorter lines it will spend less time in the power zone so it will tend to not haul them around as much. At the end of the day ... I have never frigged around too much with diferent line lenghts myself. I have different lengths as standard on different kites I own. Some kites will come with extentions as standard and others will have them as options/upgrades ... most though just come as a stock length. Happy Days Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted January 21, 2008 Report Posted January 21, 2008 so basically just run with what the kite manufacturer provides and do any tweaking within the limits of whats provided as far as line length goes. ta mate, Nas. Quote
Gog Posted January 21, 2008 Report Posted January 21, 2008 The Flexi Atom, kitesurf kite, that my mate has came standard with 20m lines and 5m extensions. So you could either run a 5m, 20m or 25m setup. The book "Kites Method" goes in depth into how line lengths effect control and power. They suggest doing a kitesurfers initial training (on beach) on very short lines. Then increasing line length for the initial water sessions before going onto full length once the rider had gained control of their water beast. Gog. Quote
Dudhit Posted January 21, 2008 Report Posted January 21, 2008 Because I don't have a life, and my original lines stretched unevenly causing a few issues flying. I have given it a go, mainly to appreciate the difficulty, but have kept to the same line lengths for now. probably is easier to go and buy pre-mades, but thats more consumerism i can't justify in my current situation. I think my original lines are spectra, but due to stretch, i went non stretch marine super braid. results have worked fine with the new stuff. about 2 years ago it cost me $100 for 100 meters which has done 4 lines with spare (not enough for my fifth) the super braid dosen't knot as easy, but the tangles can be larger helped having a sewing machine handy too. Quote
JKS Posted January 21, 2008 Report Posted January 21, 2008 I used the 2mm super braid to replace some broken bridles. It has a breaking strain somewhere near 400kg ! It was well cheap and easy to use. What I did find though was .... I bought red and blue, to use on left and right bridle, and the red had heaps more stretch than the blue and also felt a lot softer. I didnt notice this until I was actualy re-igging the bridle ... So my kite has a nice new blue bridle ... on both sides and I have some red cord going cheep !!!!! Happy Days Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted January 21, 2008 Report Posted January 21, 2008 Some excellent info in there Gog, Dudhit, JKS etc etc I noticed the lines on the Combat 6 whistled from the wind at times.. whats the gee OH with this ? Normal or ? Learning stacks, Nas. Quote
Gog Posted January 21, 2008 Report Posted January 21, 2008 When the lines sing to you NAS.... u know your going to have some fun.... Its just the kite saying "Go on... ride me.... get some air.... you know you want to..." Totally normal... Gog. Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted January 21, 2008 Report Posted January 21, 2008 oh if you could see my grin dude. Nas. Quote
nigel Posted January 22, 2008 Report Posted January 22, 2008 Beautiful, thanks Schultzie.... nice metaphor JKS, I love a good metaphor. Is there anyone around who might be somewhat well known for this kind of mod ? Is there a line length guru in da house ? Can you get custom lengths made ? What if I want for example...38's on a 3 metre or 17s on a 6m ? is this do-able ? Does breaking strain have to be upped when putting on longer lines ? Is there cheapo line and good line ? whats it called ? Cheers, Nas. I'll help the best I can. Custom lengths, yes. Most kite stores can and do purchase line in big rolls of several hundred metres. If they have the lbs or kg line, your after, just ask for it in your desired length. You can sew the ends or tie them off, make sure you use some sleveing, also from the kite shop. Over sewing, can weaken the line, as the needle punches through the fibres, breaking them. Not enough, well you can guess. Tieing a knot is the other method. Tie the wrong knot and you weaken the line, and it will break at the knot. Tie the correct knot, and no problems. Just you have a lumpy knot, not a fancy sewn end. Knots are the easiest to adjust later if your line creeps, most lines will and do after a fair bit of use. You can have any length line on your kite, I've seen people fly kites off the bridles!! Stronger lines, for longer lines? No. If anything, you really want to be going down, as the weight, and extra line will cause drag. One good method of finding the right strength line you'll need, is 3 times your body weight. You can peak load your line to 3 times or more if you push the limits. This is for your power lines. You can go alot smaller for the brakes, but this depends on your kite, your likes and how much risk your willing to take, ie; you pull the brakes on hard or quickly, and the brake lines snap! If your after pure performance, then get the line as small (weakest) as possible. It all comes back to what you want to do. Have a heavy line, and be a touch slower, but never have to replace it. Or have the lightest an be quick, but it can snap with a gust, or if crossed with another kite. Bigger kites make power slower, than your small pocket rockets. So smaller kites often need a touch stronger lines, this holds them back in performance, and weight as well. You can push the line limits on the bigger kites more than the smaller ones, all due to the shock loading. Small kites need that extra bit of forgivness in the lines. Most line from a kite store should be good quality, if you get it from somewhere else, then who knows?, but you also might find it cheaper to? Dynema, spectra, the only names I know for the line we use. Don't use kevlar!! It might have almost the same stats as spectra, but it will cut through any other line including it's self, not friendly at all. UV also effects it badly as well over time. Kevlar has an abrasive texture, spectra is slipry, and slides. Some kites are made with kevlar bridles, the reason is it is easier to sew. As long as the kevlar is sleved, it's ok. Also, a kites speed never changes!! Longer lines means a bigger arc the kite has to cover to get from edge to edge, so it takes longer. Shorter lines, it takes less time to get from one side to the other. Good for changing dirrection a lot. Longer lines, more time in the power zone, not more power, just longer. Good for reaching up high to clean air at some locations, but slow to respond to changes of dirrection. The old kitesurfers (before 4 string kites) used to say that if you half'd your line length, you could move up one kite size and get the same amout of power, but it was more controllable. If your lucky enough to have two sets for a kite, try the long ones, and when your getting over powered, try the shorter ones, you should be able to keep going with the kite for a few more knots of wind. Hope thats enough info? Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted January 22, 2008 Report Posted January 22, 2008 Holy........ Its official, Nigel is the line guru.... and he doesnt know it, then its still unknown. Respect. Any disputes dealt with via PM. Thats quite a run down. Sincere thanks for that Nigel. Im sure it will even benefit some of the older heads among us. Nas. Quote
Baggsy Posted January 23, 2008 Report Posted January 23, 2008 i will be using 15 meter lines on my trainer kites to kill off some power and make the power zone smaller as well .. longer lines are great to catch the cleaner air up high and increrase the power zone i have used 40 meter lines on a previous kite and i have heard of 60 meter lines used on lighter days .. Quote
squidrunmegzy28 Posted January 24, 2008 Report Posted January 24, 2008 years ago while flying 3m deltas, i had the urge to see what it would be like with extra lines up....original lines were 40m so attatched a second set, 80m total.... it got up past the lumpy, turbulant wind alright... but i did find it to be dragging too much and not half as much fun as flying on the normal length lines....and that by itself, was enuff for me to make my mind up... Quote
squidrunmegzy28 Posted January 24, 2008 Report Posted January 24, 2008 years ago while flying 3m deltas, i had the urge to see what it would be like with extra lines up....original lines were 40m so attatched a second set, 80m total.... it got up past the lumpy, turbulant wind alright... but i did find it to be dragging too much and not half as much fun as flying on the normal length lines....and that by itself, was enuff for me to make my mind up... Quote
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