Whats it called when.....

[Peter]

I have been attaching my kites directly to the buggy, by way of some custom made straps, made out of car seatbelt, a quick release system, strop and pulley or bar.

Now i know its not called being "strapped in" because that would imply that a harness is being worn and the kite attached to the harness and a seatbelt type of thingy holding the flyer in the buggy.

I feel no pull at all from the kite, as its not attached to me. I do however feel all the surging in power and there is actually no loss in sensation as to when i'm fully powered up.

It is the most amazing feeling, and I've been able to fly much bigger kites than i would have normally done if it was attached to me, you don't get sore legs from being pressed against the side rail.

BUT WHAT IS IT CALLED????? I did notice someone from Port Douglas is doing the same thing, and i agree, its not at all for the newbies out there.

Cant wait till i get my overloaded V-Max skyward!!!!!

I don't have any photos of this system yet as the weather has been so cold and wet that i'm the only crazy bastard willing to brave the elements (and i have two wet suits) of late, but come sunday i'm hoping Trevor will catch me in full flight.

[toeside]

Cant wait till i get my overloaded V-Max skyward!!!!!

i'll beat rocket to this.

[Zenon]

It is still called strapped in to all of my knowledge as you are still held onto the buggy by a seatbelt type of thing. its just not your conventional seatbelt system.

My mate rides this way and jumps his buggy. seems good for him but i hate it as i loose feeling from the kite. but thats just me.

[Longbow]

You hardwired the kite to the buggy? Are you attached in any way to the kite or buggy?

[Peter]

You hardwired the kite to the buggy? Are you attached in any way to the kite or buggy?

Nar mate, kite is attached via two straps to the side rails, shes just an arm chair, and oh soo comfy too. My butt is about 50mm (thats 2 inches in the old scale) above the sand, and i have a hard plastic skid plate under the seat (saved me having a few extra holes a few times too), the skid plate has a lot of quite deep scratches on it, thank god for tough plastic.

the only reason that i never go over sideways, and i can say i have tried to flip it and cant, is that i have a custom made down tube, a swan necked down tube that lowers the centre of gravity heaps, and given that i have 500x250x200 tyres (20x10x8) i am sitting with my navel at about axle height.

To add some extra fun on the high wind days (wish we had a few more of late) i add about 30kg to the rear axle and 15kg to the front, now that makes stopping a little on the hard side, but hay, who wants to stop?

I hope we get some wind this weekend, i need someone else to hold the camera!!!

btw, the pic next to my nic is with the standard tyres on, not the big ones.

[Longbow]

I think thats how that guy went over 100 in a PL with a C kite. Power straight to the buggy and lotsa weight.

[Zenon]

Ahh ha.

Longbow you are talking about Perrin.

Perrin Melchior The SAND SIFTER himself is the fastest man in a kite buggy in New Zealand

Perrin owner of Kite Works in Auckland recently exceeded 100 kmh at Muriwai beach on the west coast, hear is a short report from the man himself and a couple of pictures.

Hi there

Here is my personal top speed in a buggy - 101 KPH \ 62 MPH

On the 03\03\2006 I finally broke the 100 kph barrier after years of trying.

I did it using a Peter Lynn Comp Buggy with upgraded 32mm extended side frames, a 1.4m giga strong axle and a 5 wheel kit.

Wheels were alloy rims with treaded tyres

Buggy mass is 35kg, driver mass is 70kg and I carried 40kg ballast

The kite was a 12m Naish Shockwave hard wired to the buggy frame

The beach was Muriwai, New Zealand .Soft, damp, black iron sand with a 2km run in 25-40 knots cross onshore (south west)

Most of the runs that day were.

[Peter]

Perrin, (my hero).....yeap, you are quite right, i've spoken to perrin (by email) and shared some thoughts, perrin actually used a modified kids car seat harness to attach the kite to the buggy, if my memory serves me right, and the use of a standard fixed bridle foil kite makes it harder to achieve the higher speeds, Inflatables or Arc's seem to be the way to go.

You ask why.....so did I.

I think is something to do with the size of the wind window and where the kite can be in that window when the kite is pulling and acceleration is at its maximum.

This was pointed out to me just last weekend, after picking up an Peter Lynn ARC 1120 from Baggsy, I took it for a fly at Conway Beach with Trevor and young Calib, and we were actually amazed at the size of the wind window (the window was actually more than 180o, more on this a little later on) the kite was flyable in such light wind of about 1 to 3 knts, The Arc did not produce enough power to pull me along in the buggy, and i didnt even take the buggy with me. Trevor got his Bomba 15 out and couldn't even get it to stay in the air, must be the difference in the design, i have no idea, but i was so pleased with the Arc's flying ability that i cant wait to get it up in 25knts and try and better my personal speed record (which i have to add is also the speed record for the Whitsunday shire).

On the point of the wind window being over 180o, well i was flying the kite on a very non standard setup that is a hybrid between a depowerable bar, and a Crossover Bar system, in effect the crossover part of the system doubles the amount of brake line pulled in when the bar is pulled. How you might ask is this acheaved, well thats where it gets complex to explain, but easy to do, take a look at this simple Crossover Bar syatem (picture below, remember that this is the very simple Crossover bar system that i use on larger fixed bridle foil kites), and add to it the ability to sheet in and out with the depowerable bar syatem, and there you have it in a nut shell.

Now i also have to add that this method of attaching the kite to the buggy that i have been using, is ONLY useful in strong wind, with the lighter winds or smaller kites i do prefer the old harness and pulley system at this stage. But more testing may change all that.

BUT give me strong wind and a big kite and i'm game.

[Longbow]

You are all crazy. In a good way.

[Luke]

hmmmm, dangerous for anybody standing by, as if you fall out of your buggy, your kite is attached to the buggy and till the kite falls out of the sky it is a hazzard to anybody near by, as the weight of the buggy even without you in it could still generate enough pull against the kite to keep the buggy going powered up in a direction.... hence the word "traction" with kiting!

I like good old fashioned control where i can either eject, with the kite, or drop the kite and have control of my buggy!

but thanks for the idea I just put my car in gear on the main road and sent it down the street with a note on the windscreen for the garage saying "please fill up, and point it back towards my place asap"

Rocket

[Peter]

rocket, like i said, i have not been able to get any pictures of this set up as yet, i cant come out of the buggy, the straps are in front of me, sure they don't hold me in the buggy as tight as if i was jumping the buggy, and i do use a quick release system and kite leash/killer system. The quick release is what attaches the kite to the straps, and it has a huge handle too.

i have never found myself in a situation that i have not been in control, i know my limits and respect them. i treat the wind and my equipment with the utmost respect, i do not compete with others as to who is faster, or sillier, i fly for my own satisfaction, and am not subjected to peer pressure.

one tug on my quick release, and myself and the kite are going different directions, and the kite is killed by the attached leash. the same would happen if i did come out of the buggy as the kite leash is attached to me, not the buggy, surely you did not think that someone (with enough know how and experience) doing something like strapping them self in, would be so stupid.

on another note, there are laws that prohibit you from doing stupid things with cars, or are there???

[Luke]

no..... its a jeep i dont even need doors

the darndest thing happened to me and troy on the weekend..... two seperate OBE's and I have never seen a buggy go down a hill EVER so far in a straight line, the only thing that pulled them up was the railing before they hit the road

..... yep any minute now....... its not stopping....... WTF ....... at least it steers in a straight line

[Zenon]

i was about to post somewhere that we hadnt heard from Rocket in a wee while and did anyone know if you finally managed to boost higher than Joel but killed yourself at the same time.....But here you ruin my fun by posting....

[Pete]

I have considered doing this for some time but with one BIG difference. I plan on still having a quick release with a strop attached to me to activate it. That way, in a bad situation the potential fallout is minimised. My plan would be to use a bar however I have thought of handles but have not figured out a practical way to incorporate something like kitekillers to stop the kite floating away.

I think any additional safety are value adding to the experience and worth more discussion.

cheers

Pete

[Peter]

so far pete, i have only ever done this with a bar, but i have my systems on both bars and handles with a QR that is attached to my harness, and a stainless ring attached to the pulley or bar, then in the event of a release, the bloody QR don't go whizzing past ya ears. I cant wait to get some photos of my set up as words don't do it justice.

i was going to attach the QR activation cord to the buggy, but thought that there would be more need to get me away from the buggy than the kite, as my QR, when strapped in does both at once.

@Pete, what mods have you done to your libre?

[Pete]

Just side rail extenders and belly pan. I am running in Midi configuration as well.

I'm going to bigfoot style with front suspension though.

cheers

Pete

[.Joel]

Just some food for thought, overseas in the serious championships it is actually illegal to strap in whatsoever as it results in instant disqualification. Admittedly some do on the sly try to hook in and keep themselves in the buggy, however if caught out you go.

And here we all are trying to strap ourselves in

Regards,

Joel

[.Joel]

BTW Peter, if you are going to start "pioneering" these sort of designs, be fully prepared for an army of doubters.

/sits here poking the doubters in the head with a burnt stick

Regards,

Joel

[sinbad]

Its a bit like this is i think http://www.crashtestdummyolympics.co.uk/

[Zenon]

Just some food for thought, overseas in the serious championships it is actually illegal to strap in whatsoever as it results in instant disqualification. Admittedly some do on the sly try to hook in and keep themselves in the buggy, however if caught out you go.

Im going to assume we are talking about racing championships as it would be very hard to do freestyle while not hooked in....

But carry on disscussion....

[Peter]

Just side rail extenders and belly pan. I am running in Midi configuration as well.

I'm going to bigfoot style with front suspension though.

cheers

Pete

The belly pan is a must!!! same with the side rail extensions. I have also made myself a Goose necked down tube, first attempt was not long enough so i added another 6" and it has dropped the front of the seat heaps, lowered the centre of gravity a long way, i also now run 500x250x8 (20x10x8) tyres on the standard 2.5" wide rims, i have also made a wide front fork to take these wide tyres.

[Peter]

This is a photo of my '3 point linkage', now bear in mind that the Front of the three straps and the QR snap shackle used are temporary stand ins until i get a better snap shackle and the length worked out on the front strap.

the snap shackle is permanently attached to the front strap and the kite will be attached by either a pulley on a stainless ring, which is shackled between the two side strap rings, or if using a bar, the chicken loop is replaced with a stainless ring, and attached the same way.

This way i can go from using my harness, to the strapped in setup, very quickly, as i have a snap shackle on the harness bar.

All on the one snap shackle. So one release point for the kite, buggy and flyer.

The stitching was done by a local guy that makes kites, when he did these straps for me he wanted to be sure that they would hold the load, so we made up a sample strap, with a stainless ring at each end, and towed a tree stump (a big one) with a tractor, just to be sure.

[Frakke]

I ran a flexibug like this :D:D

Just lashed a spreader bar across the siderails and hooked to that

ran a 6.6BIII off and jumped it as well....

C of G was a bit high though as stated and two wheels was easy..... I didn't have weights obviously and kkilling the kite wasn't a problem.

High C of G still meant that a crash was a crash but I could get out of the mess and leave kite and buggy on the sand.. Killing the kite was also as easy as it it with a harness on

Went to a harness eventually as C of G came down loads....

Must also say that this was not a dangerous thing in my eye as it seemd to work well... it was just unconventional and DID GET A LOAD OF FLACK from the doubters

I changed of my own accord to a harness - just saw it as a developemnt phase I was going through

F

[Peter]

Must also say that this was not a dangerous thing in my eye as it seemd to work well... it was just unconventional and DID GET A LOAD OF FLACK from the doubters

the system has its moments of glory, and is not a system to be used all the time, only when conditions permit ( BIG WIND, BIG KITE, BIG GRIN )