Extreme kites forum

[mojo]

So whats it all about?

With a bit of bad feeling around here lately, with Whitsunday Peter in close fisticuffs and my own late night gripes, by the way, my apologies to Joel, as I was getting personal there.

I for one, certainly don't like to see posts deleted if they are slightly off topic, it happens all the time e.g football/cricket.

Would admin kindly create a separate section in regard to the site rules, help threads etc, so that everyone is perfectly clear on their conduct regardless of whether they are members or admin.

Q: On which grounds on which posts are deleted? in particularly is this a matter decided by one person, or by a few?

I have a number of private thoughts on the forum at present, and most of them are quite disillusioned.

[.Joel]

on the phone to pete i'll post up in 10 mins

EDIT: Bit longer on the phone then expected. Typing now for you mojo, give me another 10 mins

Alright posted See below...

[Macca]

Joel,

With all due respect, friendship and experience in moderating a forum over may many years, be careful of moderating the life out of what you love. We can chat be phone after if that is more productive. I am trying to give the benefit of my experience in a similar situation.

We have our moderation policies and financial statements out there on the site. We are a no-ads site by choice and are financed by merchandising etc. - the mods chip in the case of a short fall.

We have 8 mods from 4 countries: good time-zone coverage gives good response time to nasties. We have a hidden, closed, mod only forum. We also have some loose rules:

One mod can delete/move a post/thread if he/she deems it immediately offensive but must justify it to the others after the fact.

Ordinarily we require a mover, a seconder and thirder to make such interventions.

We tend to let things run rather than jump on them immediately (except spam) although we are aware of possible rapid escalations and monitor them carefully. If in doubt WRT relevance we move things to what we call "The Pub" - "chat" in the case of XK

We have a wide spread of age groups and backgrounds (by happy accident)...

Major site changes require consensus (& usually our $$)

Arguments/bloodletting amonst core group is done out of sight

Site direction issues are managed by the mod group as a whole.

These have stood us in good stead.

We have removed one mod over the years (but with great reluctance due to mental illness)

Our moderation guidelines are a bit gonzo but work for us:

"Openness of dialogue is of primary importance.

Encourage maximum usage.

Maintain a working website.

mtncommunity.org forums are moderated - this means that any post may be edited or deleted. Any post that has no clear connection to the topic of climbing or to the activities of the members of the forum may be removed. Flames or attacks focusing solely on personality differences may be eliminated. Critiques of others' ideas or behavior will be allowed to stand. There will be some 'common sense' element of enforcement.

Examples:

"the Chicago Cubs are gonna win the World Series!!!!" will be deleted. Anyone remember the "Manchester United Rules" posts from years ago?? Besides, it is quite clear that the Cubbies are never going to win the World Series again.

"You are all the biggest bunch of $hi+heads..." will be removed, unless the post contains a withering assessment of the group's climbing skills.

"Danhedonia is an a$$h*le" will be removed, unless it contains descriptions of behaviors related to the activities of the board in which I, in fact, was an a$$h*le.

"Danhedonia is beyond stupid" is allowed, esp. in rebuttal to my recommendation for pounding a piton into the trunk of a rare dogwood as a single TR anchor on a nasty overhanging route.

Nuts and bolts:

How do the site administrators make editing/moderation decisions?

If a post is a clear and unquestionable violation of the guidelines, any of the site administrators can remove or edit it. If the post is questionable, at least three site administrators must agree with the proposed action (edit or delete)."

Regards,

Macca

[.Joel]

So whats it all about?

With a bit of bad feeling around here lately, with Whitsunday Peter in close fisticuffs and my own late night gripes, by the way, my apologies to Joel, as I was getting personal there.

I for one, certainly don't like to see posts deleted if they are slightly off topic, it happens all the time e.g football/cricket.

Alright not sure what you are reffering too as "All the time" in cricket/football, you have me lost there. However:

In the past 6 months:

18 Topics Moved

6 Posts Deleted

I am not counting the "See beautiful russian ladies" threads. These are moderation actions on actual posts made by members of the forum.

What we have been doing as of late (you may of noticed this) is splitting topics that are going off-topic. I quote the following that was posted in our Team Discussion Forum:

Hi Guys,

Not sure if u are aware but you have the power to split topics. After discussions with a few different members one thing that they noticed is as of late many topics all going off-topic into the general ramble.

Sometimes if a topic is starting to sway off-topic a bit it is a good move to split the topic. This not only keeps the original topic on track, but also encourages more discussion as there is a second topic to now discuss.

A good example of late is the Peter Lynn Scorpion thread.

Link: http://www.extremekites.com.au/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1727

The topic was going well, then ruudjie pops in and posts:

Nigel then responds:

This was a good opportunity to keep the original topic on topic, as it would have started swaying very quickly. The new topic http://www.extremekites.com.au/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1730 is now booming along as well as the original topic and we have two good discussions going on.

Obviously this doesn't mean to pounce on every topic possible, but it is a good way that if there is a good thread or topic going to keep it clean and focused.

With the forum upgrade we will actually be able to put a little message at the top of the thread in a small 2 line yellow box that states: Topic has been split, discussion regarding Combats Vs Yakuzas can be found here: Link." This will be great as it is polite and lets people know we aren't trying to rule how they post, we are simply trying to keep things going healthily.

With the new forum we will also have the ability to merge topics too.

Regards,

Joel

We reached this decision purely to be able to keep discussion open, but not have multiple threads off topic. This is an area that has spawned out of control. We have all been guilty of it, and now we as a team are trying to take control of it. Read my post above and you will see that I have asked not to pounce on every topic.

Would admin kindly create a separate section in regard to the site rules, help threads etc, so that everyone is perfectly clear on their conduct regardless of whether they are members or admin.

Already been in the process of this for a month and a bit. Sinbad here on our forums runs a very popular site himself, and I called up and spoke to him the other day to gain an insight to how we can improve the forum.

What we need at this point is both a Members set of conduct, and a Moderators set of conduct. At this point we have an old set of rules when you click register, that IMHO really need to be looked at and addressed.

Q: On which grounds on which posts are deleted? in particularly is this a matter decided by one person, or by a few?

Posts are rarely removed. However if they are they are deemed by a case by case basis. As stated earlier, I am trying to set a mould here where threads would be Moved and topics Split opposed to deleted. They have always been decided by an individual, as it is only as of late we have had more people on the Moderating team. The first posts to be "group" discussed happened this week. No action was taken at that point, we just discussed the nature of the posts and too keep an eye on them.

On Signup:

While the administrators and moderators of this forum will attempt to remove or edit any generally objectionable material as quickly as possible, it is impossible to review every message. Therefore you acknowledge that all posts made to these forums express the views and opinions of the author and not the administrators, moderators or webmaster (except for posts by these people) and hence will not be held liable.

You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-oriented or any other material that may violate any applicable laws. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned (and your service provider being informed). The IP address of all posts is recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. You agree that the webmaster, administrator and moderators of this forum have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic at any time should they see fit. As a user you agree to any information you have entered above being stored in a database. While this information will not be disclosed to any third party without your consent the webmaster, administrator and moderators cannot be held responsible for any hacking attempt that may lead to the data being compromised.

This forum system uses cookies to store information on your local computer. These cookies do not contain any of the information you have entered above]

If they are private and you wish to share them with me you have my PM, eMail and phone number.

Right now Extreme Kites is growing, the forum is busier and we are getting more members. As a result we are experiencing growing pains, and still don't have a proper set of guidelines in place. I am all for drawing up a base set of rules that are decided upon as a community.

@ Pete

What I don't appreciate is when you refer to Moderators or Admins as "Forum God."

Let me put some perspective into our situation. We remove a post people cry foul. We don't remove a post then we get people crying foul over that too. Then we have a public analysis session where everything is hugely blown out of proportion. We don't publicly vindicate you as members if we have a problem (Sinbad how's the soccer ?), we would appreciate the courtesy back. If you have a problem with a moderator's decision (when I refer to moderators, I mean admins and moderators), contact a mod questioning it. Try a simple one to one discussion and discuss it first.

So if you would like to help us get a base model of conduct going I welcome what you have to say.

I also do recall Mojo that I invited you to be part of our moderating team here on Extreme Kites, as you were so openly opinionated. And I do not mean this in a bad way at all. You just choose on many occasion to hint at decisions on how we moderate. I thought you may have had better views on how things can be done, and thus invited you but never received a response.

The tally stands at:

2 people wanted hugh's the post removed

1 individual wants his account removed altogether due to his name

1 Person (Pete ) having completely no problem with it :D

Perhaps you can appreciate that being a moderator for the people that take on this task is not always an easy decision. One thing I believe would help is when we shift forum software and a thread is closed, or a post removed or edited there is a box whereby we can fill in a reason, that can be viewed by everyone as to why this decision was made.

Another area I was thinking about was making the trash can publicly viewable, but not sure if this would help or infuriate situations.

So I would be really interested in hearing something constructive.

We would like to see Extreme Kites as the biggest single Australian kiting website. Thus the amount of hours going into developing the site. Where I personally have lapsed is moulding the forum in a way that it is free speech, but there being a clear set of guidelines for both members and us moderators. And if either one steps outside this there is a solution or structure to be followed to rectify a situation.

Regards,

Joel

[.Joel]

Joel,

With all due respect, friendship and experience in moderating a forum over may many years, be careful of moderating the life out of what you love.

Honestly Paul we barely moderate here, and I believe this to be the problem. You visit Flexi, Appozone, Neowin, Whirlpool, they are all VERY heavily moderated forums. Now I stated that is what I believe to be the problem, and beliefs can be wrong, just ask any religious group pertaining to another group's views So I stand to be corrected. What I believe to be the problem here is that people have gotten comfortable with the lack of moderation in the community, and now that one or two posts are removed in the past week we have a ruckas.

This problem now highlights another, much larger problem, and that is we have no real clear and structured set of rules and conduct for the forum.

Before I go on to respond to more of your post, I would like to say I really appreciate the time you have put into your post.

We have our moderation policies and financial statements out there on the site.

We have no moderation policies, just posting policies. An area that we now need to address asap.

We have no desire to release any financial statements. I will say that the wallet is seeing red at the moment.

We are a no-ads site by choice and are financed by merchandising etc. - the mods chip in the case of a short fall.

We are moving to a rotating banner system, one single banner on every page that is keyword focused so we can increase return for our advertisers, and thus the site too. In turn want to use this money so we can fund events in multiple states, and offer some prizes here to the community.

I am totally against asking mods to chip in, quite the opposite, we would like to be able to give the mods a gift each year as a thank you for their help and participation.

We have 8 mods from 4 countries: good time-zone coverage gives good response time to nasties.

That is a great idea, and something I would really like to implement. However we are an Australian based site, so not sure how we would go doing that. I know it wouldn't be an issue asking a couple of the guys from the UK who are 11hrs (so nearly completely opposite to us) to help moderate. Not sure what the community feeling towards this would be, but would be nice to have one night watchman for those russian ladies.

We have a hidden, closed, mod only forum. We also have some loose rules:

One mod can delete/move a post/thread if he/she deems it immediately offensive but must justify it to the others after the fact.

Ordinarily we require a mover, a seconder and thirder to make such interventions.

We too have a closed Team forum as of about a week ago. Before that it was just Gav and Myself, so any discussions was between us. I felt it was good to have somewhere private to discuss issues.

If the mod deletes/moves a thread, do they confirm this in the Mod / Team forum ? Or do they put a reason into the thread ? I would really like it to be public in the sense that we can leave a reason. The new forum software has a box that asks you why you are taking such actions on this thread.

So is this one individual that can do that ? How does the mover, seconder and thirder come into place ? If something is deemed to need moderation how long does the process take before action is taken ? This sounds interesting, but we will need a few more mods then for this to be able to work as some days not all of us view the forum.

We tend to let things run rather than jump on them immediately (except spam) although we are aware of possible rapid escalations and monitor them carefully. If in doubt WRT relevance we move things to what we call "The Pub" - "chat" in the case of XK

We jump on spam as quick as we can, and have put measures in place to try and reduce it.

What is "WRT" ?

Also how does moving things to "The Pub" work ? If in doubt to remove the topic, or if in doubt it is relevant to that section of the forum ?

We have a wide spread of age groups and backgrounds (by happy accident)...

Major site changes require consensus (& usually our $$)

Site changes as in development changes are decided by Gav and myself, and we will keep it that way in terms of features we want to implement. That is not to say don't make suggestions, we are always looking for advice on areas to better develop the site. Thus the last 4 months of hard work so far. I guess in terms of technical development we will keep these decisions up to us, as in community direction development that is something that would be nice to be able to share with a selected team of people.

Arguments/bloodletting amonst core group is done out of sight

How do you manage to keep this under controll ? And what do you define as your core group ? Long standing members, or team members ?

Site direction issues are managed by the mod group as a whole.

As stated above, I would like to keep site development direction to us. But community direction I would like to be managed by a small team. And feeding off this direction we can make decisions within our capabilities to develop the site.

"Openness of dialogue is of primary importance.

Encourage maximum usage.

Maintain a working website.

Can you elaborate on "Openness of dialog" ?

mtncommunity.org forums are moderated - this means that any post may be edited or deleted. Any post that has no clear connection to the topic of climbing or to the activities of the members of the forum may be removed. Flames or attacks focusing solely on personality differences may be eliminated. Critiques of others' ideas or behavior will be allowed to stand. There will be some 'common sense' element of enforcement.

I like that as it gives a level of flexability, and it clarifies that Moderators have the authority to edit the posts. This right is then obviously controlled by the approval system you have in place above that I would like more info on.

If a post is a clear and unquestionable violation of the guidelines, any of the site administrators can remove or edit it. If the post is questionable, at least three site administrators must agree with the proposed action (edit or delete)."

How is it determined if it is questionable or not ? Is this done by the individual moderator ?

I would consider adding here also if a topic on a subject is closed, or removed, there are to be no duplicate topics made in its place.

Eg: if a post is removed due to obscenity. Not go repost the same post again, or a similar post complaining about the removal of the first post.

If anyone else has further constructive posts they are welcomed.

Regards,

Joel

[darkside]

Yep ! I am on "Seabreeze"

[.Joel]

Alright,

been at this for a couple of hours, about 2 go 2 bed. Need to be up in 4 hours.

-----------------------------

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Upon moving a topic you will state a reason for this action and inform the individual.

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Topics that require immediate deletion you will delete to the "Trash Can" whereby after further review they can be reinstated should this decision be overturned.

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-----------------------------

I have removed the term "offensive" as what is deemed offensive to one person may not be to another. The terms "false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening," should happily take care of anything offensive enough to be removed.

Any further thoughts on this ? Looking for anything relating to both Moderators and Members.

Regards,

Joel

[sinbad]

Looks good Joel

Short and to the point.

Maybe also you should look at locking rather then deleting unless its offensive.

That will give people, time to actually read it and make there own views.

[.Joel]

Looks good Joel

Short and to the point.

Maybe also you should look at locking rather then deleting unless its offensive.

That will give people, time to actually read it and make there own views.

Cool cool, i'll add that in to the moderators conduct. See what other amendments people suggest as the day passes.

(I'm already awake and about an hour and a half out of Melbourne!)

[Macca]

[Sparky21]

Joel,

back in the days before the net really took off, membership to systems such as Extremekites, was a privilege not a right. I do not expect folk to behavior badly when they in my house, nor should you expect me to do so when I am in yours.

Simply put. Continued membership to any board, especially one that is being funded by the efforts of a few, is a privilege, not a right.

If I therefore am caught behaving badly, I should expect to not be welcome back in anyones home, right?

Got a problem, then form your own board and see what effort and real dollars it consumes all to quickly.

Gav and Joel, thanks for the detailed "Common Sense" guidelines, to hopefully lead to common sense prevailing.

Cheers

[sinbad]

ACT well said, I totally agree that could not be put any simpler. If you want to put that forward i would second it.

Maybe joel and gav should call them house rules, instead of forum rules, people would probably understand better then.

[.Joel]

Alright,

I have received PMs by Mojo and will keep lines open on that frontier One thing I have to give her credit for, whilst i don't agree with all her views, a number of them hold merit. And above all, as dissatisfied as I am in the way she has gone about creating this topic, it has turned into a catalyst for change.

So I am in no position other then to say Thank You if it is for the better of the community here.

What is crossing my mind at the moment is to setup an "Community Advisory Panel." I know panel makes it sound big, but i'm thinking 3 or 4 members. These individuals are not moderators, however have access to the Team Forum. They are in a position whereby they can advise the moderating team (remembering i refer to admins as part of the moderating team too as a collective) of actions, feelings and general community direction. They are individuals who participate in the Extreme Kites Community, but are not moderators. Therefor are not bound or put in a position whereby they are limited in what they can say. They are an independant "Community Advisory."

And Pete, before you ask... No there will not be a Lower House, Upper House, Regional MPs, Ballet Elections or anything else. However i'm sure that the building in which we house these decisions will be council approved and structurally safe.

Any opinions on this ?

Regards,

Joel

EDIT: Sinbad & Gary I agree with both your points, that there are house rules and they are to be respected period. But this is a community house, and thus I like the idea of the community also getting some input into the house rules. So I can appreciate where you two are coming from, and believe me, life would be alot easier if this place was moderated as some other boards, but they have a very cold feel to them. Especially some of the larger ones, I would hope with some community imput this place can have rules that are respected, but more importantly approved of. We can't satisfy everyone, but I can sure as hell do my best to try and satisfy as many as possible.

[mojo]

Privilege or rights? I don't quite agree with ACT's point of view.

If you create a public forum, everyone instantly has a right to gain access, they do not need to prove them selves to anyone, or ask permission from anyone to join.

They might have to agree to a disclaimer or some conditions to get thru the door and stay, but essentially the welcome mat is out.

It becomes a privilege to remain a member once you have gained acceptance (generally) by your peers within that group.

On the other hand, if you create a private forum, it would be a privilege to be asked to join.

Again perhaps there is also conditions that need to be observed.

But by already having been accepted/tested by your peers to be a worthy member of that group on the invitation to join. To a degree, the right to remain has already been granted.

While Joel doesn't like the way in which this thread was started, started it was, And personally, there's some really good comments coming thru and a wealth of experience as well. It is indeed a privilege to post my thoughts on the matter.

[Sparky21]

Privilege or rights? I don't quite agree with ACT's point of view.

If you create a public forum, everyone instantly has a right to gain access, they do not need to prove them selves to anyone, or ask permission from anyone to join.

Mojo, not so actually.

A public forum is totally at the control of those who run and pay for the costs assoicated with that service. The term "public" in this instance is not actually a trueism.

Yep they welcome the public to contribute to the forums, Extreme is the same as others in this regard, but continued access is never a right.

If you were a rate payer and a local council provided you as rate payers a "public" board, then I would agree, but none of the discussion boards we all use on the web are truly "public".

If Gav and Joel decided to stop paying the bills, what "public right" exists to force them to put it back up? (they pay, they have the say and to what degree they want to do whatever, is up to them)

Our public right really is to do set up our systems if anyone isn't happy with what is currently offered on the web.

Cheers

[.Joel]

Alright my views are inbetween both of yours.

I believe:

A) You are "welcome" to join.

It can be a right or a privilege, either way it doesn't matter. If the door is open for someone to walk in they are welcome too.

Once you have entered there are set guidelines, and things that would be deemed acceptable and unacceptable. Eg: If you came to my house and farted at my table while we were eating dinner I would show you the door. However if you joined fartoholics anonymous.com then i'm sure any member holding a dinner party would be quite welcome of that attitude. There's a time and a place for certain behaviour.

C) The pickle here is that Extreme Kites has never really enforced any moderation policy. This has spawned the following problems:

1. Members over-stepping the mark.

2. Moderation processes over-stepping the mark.

3. Most topics going off-topic and turning the forum into a mess

4. People believing they can be as offensive as they please under the flag of "free speech."

While the forum was small and slow that's fine. But right now the site is growing. A group of 5 friends can organise themselves fine. Once you get a group of 1000 people turning up to one venue what do you think is going to happen ? You can't exactly tap the other 999 on the shoulder and say hey "lets organise a race." You need people to set out clearly what the direction of the day is. Eg: Here's a flag pole, there's a flag pole, you can do whatever you want between those poles is deemed safe. I see a code of conduct or house rules as flag poles. The purpose of them being that it it keeps the forum in order, and above all it keeps it pleasant for a majority.

@Mojo

If you create a public forum, everyone instantly has a right to gain access, they do not need to prove them selves to anyone, or ask permission from anyone to join.

They might have to agree to a disclaimer or some conditions to get thru the door and stay, but essentially the welcome mat is out.

The conditions on signup will be what sets the framework of which you are within your rights. It is quite simple, the word right does not mean "disregard." This is something that can be over looked, whilst you have right to an account, you don't have right to do as you please. You have as much right to an account as the person next to you. The framework means there's a happy medium. You can come and post your feelings, the person next to you can come and read posts without the result of receiving abuse. Why ? Because the framework allows you to post, but forbids you to post abuse towards another member, and in turn protects the other member's right from being a victim of personal attack.

You have a right to live, you don't have a right to take the life of the person next to you. It's a framework within society, whereby you can go on with your day to day living, but there are flagpoles to remind us of boundaries. To think an online forum should be any different to day to day social life is wrong.

Again perhaps there is also conditions that need to be observed.

That is exactly what i'm trying to get accross here. We need some conditions, that run from we at the management level (Gav, Myself) interact with you as public on the forum, all the way through to how the newest member with 1 post interacts with everyone else.

A system which members have perfect freedom to mould their posts within the boundaries. And a system where moderators mould their posts within the boundaries. To have boundaries does not deny free speech, to have boundaries stipulates that there is to be free speech for all and keeps the field level.

But by already having been accepted/tested by your peers to be a worthy member of that group on the invitation to join. To a degree, the right to remain has already been granted.

Yes and no. You don't need 2 prove yourself to your peers, as you have equal standing within the community. So your right remains. But if I invite you over for a house party, or even if you attend a public event for that matter, and you make an arse of yourself you are ejected from the venue. I wouldn't keep a person who is being a total arse as a friend. Thus you have the right to be a member as long as you respect the right of others to be a member too. Stepping on them, and denying their right is denying your own right to be a member. (I'm not point the finger at you, i'm talking from a structural point of view).

It is indeed a privilege to post my thoughts on the matter.

A right IMHO as it is within the framework. You are not abusing anyone, you are not denying anyone's right to an opinion, you are not making an arse of yourself. Thus I believe it is your right.

EDIT: I just noted i used the word arse a number of times. Going to go add it to the word filter

Regards,

Joel

[Guest Anonymous]

Hi you lot....would just like to add my input into this if i may??

As owner and admin of appozone i know how hard it is to not only set up a successfull forum...but to maintain it.... We at times have to remove offensive/touchy/un-related/ and general threads that could be seen as "over the mark".... And im certain that given such opposition to how something is being moderated....half my moderators would have thrown in the towel and said "well feck that".....granted a system needs to run smoothly with "terms and conditions" but if the people running the forum and putting all their unpaid time into it are to be treated to the 3rd degree on moderating......things are gonna run into problems. Its nice to see a forum being moderated on "post" content and not based on "the user". So many forums in the UK have gone sour by ill feelings and "i can do better" attitude....if a forum is left with no moderation or should i say....not enough moderation you WILL end up with a forum that no one is interested in reading as everyone and every post will become "i know more than you" etc....

Sometimes, well actually,most of the time....Admin and moderators do not get the thanks for keeping things running smoothly....but as soon as one of them does something that someone dont agree with....it turns into a witch hunt.

Big up to Joel and crew for having a cool forum....dont let the b@stards get you down, Keep the Faith.

Remember when you got into the sport and everyone was cool and everyone smiled and easy going ....????

Dont loose that feeling. iiii

[toeside]

well i have been reading this forum for about a year and a half on and off. because i kitesurf i have mainly lurked on seabreeze but have always had an interest in land kiting so i kept visiting. now that you guys have a kitesurfing section it gave me a reason to sign up but these messages here sort of made me want to signup more. seabreeze is a mess and people arguing everywhere because there is no rules that anyone follows, you only need to read the forum for 5 minutes to see that it is chos, so i dont post on there much. this place has been growing over time but over the last 6 months it has really gotten bigger before i would read the same stuff from the same group of people all the time and it gave it a really small closed group feel like you cant get in on a conversation. but reading it more and more lately the forum is opening up and more faces seem to be appearing, i am one of those faces. with the forum opening up more there will be more people coming here and so rules need to be made so that this place doesnt turn into a circus like seabreeze because right now that is what is happening. i read a message about someone resigning here so dont know if they were a staff person but i dont think they need to leave a goodbye message to draw attention to themselves the best thing to do is not to put messages to those messages because thats what they want you to do so they feel like they have support.

this forums from what i have been reading is very slack and everyone seems to thing they have a right to piss where they like just like on seabreeze and it isnt good. personaly i would like to see the rules made and then put here because if everyone can keep saying what they want now then it is going to be harder later on to put any rules here. im not reading everything up the top but some of it is good. dont like when i start reading about something then the end i am reading something else, sometimes it is ok but not all the time when the message title is one thing and inside it is something completely different. some forums have a whinging and fighting forum to keep this stuff there. this place is growing because of the good work being put in and sometimes when things change old people just want to whinge but there will be more new people then old people.

peace, toeside.

[Baggsy]

i am the same toeside, i prefer here to seabreeze because of the nasty people there .

at least here, every one gives there opinion, but they don't attack the person giving the opinion. we all have different way to say the same thing..

[Guest]

What is crossing my mind at the moment is to setup an "Community Advisory Panel." I know panel makes it sound big, but i'm thinking 3 or 4 members.

Dear Sir,

In my capacity of Lord of Gemember House I've had the privilege of serving on many advisory boards for the local village: church fetes, mother's club walking meets and a host of other village events have been successfully run by myself and Judge Winthrop.

I would be glad to help out in any capacity, given all the trouble I seem to have caused you.

Yours strokingly,

Hugh.

[Guest Anonymous]

Dear Sir,

In my capacity of Lord of Gemember House I've had the privilege of serving on many advisory boards for the local village: church fetes, mother's club walking meets and a host of other village events have been successfully run by myself and Judge Winthrop.

I would be glad to help out in any capacity, given all the trouble I seem to have caused you.

Yours strokingly,

Hugh.

Bravo! Wizard idea! Lord Hugh and I were chatting at Winthrop House over a glass of sherry last night about this whole affair and I have to say he feels like a bit of a cad about the trouble he seems to have stirred up. Together, he and I have overseen many successful events in our village and I must stress that Hugh is a frightfully good chap when it comes to these matters. Anything we can do to help old chaps, just say the word.

Yours faithfully,

The Right Honourable Judge Singent Winthrop

[goshen]

do you guys see now why Joel deleted HG's original post (the reason for this whole discussion)?

all nice and haha for now; but it won't be next week.

delete - delete?

[Guest Anonymous]

do you guys see now why Joel deleted HG's original post (the reason for this whole discussion)?

all nice and haha for now]

Steady on old chap!

That sounds more than a little below the belt!

I'll have you know that both Lord Hugh and myself are respectable members of the Ewden Village country club, and have tea and scones with the Vicar twice a week. Lord Hugh was just trying to help you lads in Oz out with his encyclopedic knowledge of kiting.

Unfortunately it would seem you chaps "down under" must be going a bit too heavy on the Fosters, and tempers are fraying. I come across a lot of hooliganism in my esteemed position as County Judge, and I'd like to ask all you lads to calm down and act a little bit more like decent, civilised citizens.

Yours faithfully,

The Right Honourable Judge Singent Winthrop

[toby1kenobi]

Judge Winthrop, I feel bound to inform you that no self respecting Australian would drink Fosters, it is referred to as "piss", and it would seem that locally there is no more piss to take. While perhaps not everybody would agree with me, there appears to have been a problem with the satire processing system or possibly a sense of humour bypass. Apologies for any cultural misunderstandings, and please put your beer in the fridge.

[.Joel]

I'll have you know that both Lord Hugh and myself are respectable members of the Ewden Village country club

It would seem you, Hugh and JamesNeal are all great buddies And all holidaying in Australia at the same time

Regards,

Joel