Was I in the wrong?

[-james-]

I did the "get as far away as possible with the dog in tow" trick today, the owners were just standing, looking at me and watching whilst their dogs chased my kite around. So off I went down the field, and kept going, and going, and going. They soon started calling the dogs back then

[DirtEater]

i agree with mick in this instance, you where in the right, but you got fucked by the system.

[Proletariat]

I recently took a neighbor out to fly the other day and he brought his poorly-trained, highly-agitated dog out to join us. The second I launched, the dog went apeshit. My neighbor, clearly embarrassed, kept trying to get his dog to calm down, but I was able to keep the kite aloft due to the steady winds, so I just buzzed the dog about a dozen times while he was barking his head off. He eventually just got tired, laid down in the shade and I was able to land relatively peacefully. However, I haven't seen anyone here mention the buzzing of pedestrians or pets as an interference deterrent.

 

Have any of you done this? I've done it a few times on campus when I see someone completely oblivious walking right through my window for no reason. I'm not proud of my behaviour, but I must say the look of abject terror on their respective faces was really worth it >.

[el gato]

SOLUTION....To the problem

.........Bury the bloody dog owners up to thier necks and encourage every dog on the beach piss all over them.......

.........then they may understand our frustations..........so say the pirates ...aaaaaarrrrrrrr

 

and if that don't work run over the feckers .....

 

Dont get me wrong i love dogs ..just hate brain dead dog owners......

[Jim O'Hara]

. However, I haven't seen anyone here mention the buzzing of pedestrians or pets as an interference deterrent.

 

Have any of you done this? I've done it a few times on campus when I see someone completely oblivious walking right through my window for no reason. .

 

No, I've never done this on purpose. All it takes is one complaint and you won't be flying there any more. And from the point of view of the person who has to make the decision, it's a no brainer if you are flyiing so close to people that you frighten them. I'd kick you off my campus in a heartbeat.

 

Nobody in the general public understands or cares about your wind window, nor should they be expected to. It's your job to manage safety for your flying, not thiers. Once or twice through poor judgement I've landed a kite on or near people who weren't kiters. Nobody was hurt or anything, but you can be sure I was right over there saying sorry ASAP. I felt like a twat, and learned my lesson.

[Paul Burton]

[Paul Burton]

[festa]

a rifle and a good shot is what's called for there !!! before some one gets caught in the stampede

[Proletariat]

Sorry Jimbo, I completely understand what you're saying, but I still stand by my buzzing. I'm not talking about someone crossing the quad on the way to class, I'm talking about a zombie-texter aimlessly meandering right into where I am clearly flying a kite. It's the same as if someone wandered into where 3 people were throwing a frisbee, or stepping over someone's slackline WHILE they're slacklining. It's just rude. So, if I want to speed my kite up so that it's audibly making foil noises at an alarming volume, I think it's fully justified -- just as it would be justified if someone text-walking got knocked in the head by a frisbee. I don't think it would be a good idea to buzz someone with close physical proximity to a fast-moving kite, but I DO think that a little loud noise can wake someone up or perhaps help them realize that they're making a bad location choice. Of course, the lines of courtesy are VERY fluid on a college campus, so I invariably have to rein myself in from being a grumpy, old, get-off-my-lawn codger, but even college campuses should have at least a TRICKLE of consideration for the fellow human.

 

I mean, hell, if I saw 4 guys playing hacky-sack and I decided to set up a picnic in the middle of their game, wouldn't that be extremely rude? I don't see the difference... Hacky-sacking can be EXTREMELY dangerous in high winds!!! (on a side note, I have NO idea how to spell hacky-sack... assuming you UK gents even know what I'm talking about [jimbo notwithstanding]. You guys probably call it kicksack or footbag or something... but I digress ). Anyway, While I understand that kite flying is really at the bottom of the totem pole for land use, I don't agree with that assessment at all (obviously) and think that a good bit of education and polite discussion can go a long way towards taking us out of the bottom of the heap. I've been talking to a few farmers out here who seem to be amenable to letting me fly on their land. At first they looked at me like I was crazy, then as we got to talking more, they seemed to understand and be really nice about it. If I bring a landowner an occasional steak or coffee or something (like I plan to do) for letting me use his land, then I'm helping be a good ambassador to the sport, right? I think that approach is important, but it doesn't work for SHARED land use... only courtesy does.

 

I guess I just don't understand why my ability to use land is any less important than, say a soccer teams'. Of course, if we give a nod to EFFICIENT land use, sure... we lose out because we take up a TON of space and there is only one person per giant kite/board/lines. However, if one judges on a quality scale, we totally win

 

Incidentally, I called two parks here in Colorado (Bear Creek and Chatfield Res, for any locals who care) to ask about flying a kite in the park and I was essentially told "no" before I even stopped asking. However, when I inquired a bit further, it appears that, in both cases, "if you leave the ground," they will not let you fly there. Of course, that then confused me a little (I should note here that I was exceedingly polite -- I just wanted to know the rules), I found that there weren't actually any rules that forbade the flying of kites, but they just didn't want people to get injured. So, it seems that out of confusion and a lack of understanding of the sport/hobby/life, there springs a tendency toward putting us at the bottom of the totem pole, which I just completely disagree with (as do many of you, obviously).

 

So in conclusion to my land-rant, I think that it is incredibly important to be really, really nice to people deserving of respect -- for instance, like 98% of all people, people with trained dogs (or dogs on leads), people with respect for personal space, and people with an understanding of shared land use. However, when someone crosses that line, screw 'em. They deserve to have their dogs ran across the field or to have a fast-flying kite make loud noises above them. Yeah, I wish I could punch 'em, but that sort of nonsense never ends well for me and nobody seems to learn anything, so it's just not a solution.

 

Okay, /rant off.

[Jim O'Hara]

Sticking with your frisbee analogy, what do you do when you are playing Frisbee and somebody walks in the middle? Do you wait 2 seconds for them to clear, think to yourself "what a moron" and then get on with the game? Or do you throw the frisbee as close as you can to their head in order to teach them a lesson about "location choices". I think the latter is a dickhead move.

 

To take it further, let's imagine that our dickhead Frisbee guy misjudges and whacks the walker on the head. Complaints ensue, and they both end up in front of the headmaster. Walker says "He threw a Frisbee right at my head " and Frisbee guys says "he shouldn't have walked in the middle of our game." The headmaster knows that the problem is not with playing Frisbee on the campus, the problem is that this dickhead intentionally threw a Frisbee at someone else. Everyone acccepts that playing Frisbee is OK and a normal thing to do on campus because everyone understands the risks and benefits. There's a small risk that somebody will be hit by accident, and a benefit that the hippies are happy. The problem is with the dickhead, not the sport of frisbee playing.

 

Now, let's imagine that you scare somebody enough to get a complaint, or you eventually, misjudge and hit somebody with your kite. The headmaster know nothing about kites, only that you almost hit somebody. He doesn't know that you were intentionally buzzing people, and that this (IMHO) dickhead move resulted in somebody being hit by your kite. To him, any kite flying in campus results in near misses and collisions with people. To him, the sport of kite flying has just been proven to be inherently dangerous. Now he's got to balance the pluses and minuses of making up a new "no kite rule":

 

Plus: No more problems with kites, insurance or lawsuits.

Minus: One guy gets mad and can't fly kites any more.

 

It's a no brainer. Kiting is banned on that campus, and every other campus the headmaster rules from now on.

 

I don't think that your approach (flying around pople's head) to teaching people about how to behave around kites is likely to result in "a good bit of education and polite discussion" but rather injury, conflict and bans. If you make it YOUR job to be sure that nobody is ever hit by a kite, then we stand a chance to move above the dog walkers on the land use hierarchy. It should tell you something that we are even lower than dogwalkers, a group whose dog's regularly savage children, and "walking" is just a euphanism for "leaving behind great mounds of shit" in parks.

 

By the way, I wasn't trying to say you are a dickhead, I'm sure you're not. Just that flying a kite at somebody is not nice and doesn't teach anybody anything.

[Proletariat]

Very good points on the frisbee analogy, Jimbo. I get you're point and you're right. I won't lie, I was pissed and buzzed them BECAUSE I was pissed. You're right that it could've caused a longer-term issue and I think that running errant dogs to hell and back is a MUCH cooler, funnier and less-harmful solution. That being said, I wouldn't have buzzed anyone if I wasn't confident in my ability to NOT hit them, but like you said, there are certainly dangerous precedents being set there.

 

The shite part of kiting is that (here at least) there is no community to organize, explain, petition, advocate, etc. for kite-flying land use. Two years ago, slacklining was banned on campus because they were attaching to every single tree on campus. Three years ago, a zombie-theme game of tag (Humans vs. Zombies) was banned. In both cases, the limited parties worked hard and formally protested the new rules. In both cases, they won (with compromises). With kite-flying on campus, there was only me, and as previously mentioned, I am a grumpy old codger.

 

Anyway, I appreciate your points. It is well thought-out. My efforts are more positively focused on trying to build an army of kite-flying minions of my own that can "buzz the collective man" who is bringing us down, man. That's exactly why I brought up the topic, to figure out the morality of hitting someone in the face with my kite. Perhaps I'll consider your points before losing my shit next time. In fact, I can actually confidently say that I WILL consider your points. However, I still reserve the right to hit someone in the face with my kite if it's a shitty field that I don't mind losing. Speaking of which, this conversation never happened... heh.

[Nitro_uk]

 

Thanks for that Burt I had forgot all about that clip, it has me in stitches every time I watch it!! FENTON!!!!!!!!!

[Nitro_uk]

Cant be arsed with a full page essay, so:

 

Flying kites at or into people, what ever your reason = BAD

Keeping a decent flying spot from getting banned = GOOD

 

As much as you feel like seriously damaging somebody who pisses you off when your kiting, it's not worth it.

When you fly, you don't only affect your own reputation, you affect 'kiters' reputation as a whole. It's not rocket science.

 

End of discussion.

[Luna Moth]

Cant be arsed with a full page essay, so:

 

Flying kites at or into people, what ever your reason = BAD

Keeping a decent flying spot from getting banned = GOOD

 

As much as you feel like seriously damaging somebody who pisses you off when your kiting, it's not worth it.

When you fly, you don't only affect your own reputation, you affect 'kiters' reputation as a whole. It's not rocket science.

 

End of discussion.

 

Good One, total sense in 50 words instead of 1000 word rant

[Guy Ward]

Totally with jimbo on this under no conditions can you risk hitting a member of the public with your kite..if in doubt land it until all risk has passed

No matter if they are at fault or not.i met jumbo at greatstone.with jrd .sound bloke with even sounder advice

[Guy Ward]

Sorry jimbo

stupid predictive txt wasn't ment to say jumbo

[Proletariat]

Good One, total sense in 50 words instead of 1000 word rant

 

So I take it you didn't read it, Luna?

[Luna Moth]

So I take it you didn't read it, Luna?

 

I did read it, and agreed with some of it, and I wasn't having a dig! I just thought that short post summed it all up really well :-)

[Proletariat]

It totally did. I'm still working on brevity