Goz Posted November 17, 2012 Report Share Posted November 17, 2012 Seeing as we seem to have lost the last thread that was started on Multi-rotors, I thought I would start a new thread for those of us that are inclined to build and fly them. Here are the 2 I have been playing with since I got home from hospital, had a few sleepless nights and a pile of parts that had arrived while I was away so I have been doing a bit of building. Blue Sky RC Mini Quad Had this kit for a while, initially I built it with the KK v3.0 board, but i was having a few issues with a hardware conflict. So it sat for a while and has now been upgraded to the KK2 board which is much easier to configure and tune. Still trying to work the bugs out on it and it has only flown briefly in self levelling mode. This one is a good size for small spaces like practising in my lounge room and in the back yard, it's a very nimble little beast that requires a quick reflexes. SK450 Quad SK450 Quad frame I bought from Hobby King with optional coloured arms. Running Turnigy XP 2830 1100 kv motors turning 10 x 4.5 slow fly props, 30amp Multistar ESC's all controlled by a KK2 board in a protective case. This one will be for down the park and beach and is a lot more stable than the mini, eventually I intend on mounting some longer landing gear underneath so I can sling a camera from it. Haven't had a chance to fly this one outside yet due to the wind and limited mobility at the moment, but hoping to take it to the park tomorrow to run a few packs through it and tune up the KK2 board. Initial tests in the lounge room were promising but it moves a bit to much air in a small space and I was a bit worried about it turning into a paper and curtain shredder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goz Posted November 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2012 Maiden flight of the SK450 Excuse the crap camera phone footage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy666 Posted November 18, 2012 Report Share Posted November 18, 2012 Good one goz, some nice smooth flying. Although next time lets we some loops and spins, it can't be that hard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goz Posted November 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2012 Only trimmed at 30% rates at the moment while I get all the settings dialed in, once I get it sorted properly it will be on. Was only my first flight with a quad outside hovering in the lounge room Should help to stop me climbing the walls for the next 6 months until I can go kiting again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jabroni Posted November 27, 2012 Report Share Posted November 27, 2012 Where's the onboard video Goz? 450s hardly notice another 300g payload... You going to put some orientation LEDs on them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted November 27, 2012 Report Share Posted November 27, 2012 Quick question for those that might know...... What's a goodish one of these gadgets that's easy to fly ( complete beginner) will take a few crash landings, will cope with the weight of a go pro camera ..... And most importantly a bit of wind on a beach. It doesn't have to be pretty just extremely practical. Just getting some ideas to make our kite videos more interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherwinelioreg21 Posted November 27, 2012 Report Share Posted November 27, 2012 wow..creative stuffs out there.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Joel Posted November 27, 2012 Report Share Posted November 27, 2012 Quick question for those that might know...... What's a goodish one of these gadgets that's easy to fly ( complete beginner) will take a few crash landings, will cope with the weight of a go pro camera ..... And most importantly a bit of wind on a beach. It doesn't have to be pretty just extremely practical. Just getting some ideas to make our kite videos more interesting. First off, a basic setup that will hold a GoPro and fly in a little bit of wind will come out about $500 including a basic transmitter/remote. Going from that basic setup which you will be flying LOS (line of sight) and moving in to FPV (first person view) throw a few more hundred on there. Next you will move to better flight controllers, auto-leveling, barometer to control altitude locking, magnometer (spelling?) to control direction locking, GPS if you want to go a bit further etc. How large is your wallet and how much time do you have on your hands? Your next hurdle is pilot skill, and money won't buy you any fast tracking there. There's no "goodish one of these that's easy to fly.... most importantly a bit of wind on a beach" either. You're going from leisure to purpose, so from flying casually to now chasing moving objects where their environment adversely effects the environment of your equipment's capabilities. I asked the same question you did five months ago and it was "gozzy how much do you think to build one of these so we can film kiting" with my aim to be skilled enough, and setup with enough gear to first use the setup at Yeppoon, April 2013. I've now burnt a few thousand on my setups collaboratively, days/weeks fiddling, and it's still a progression. If you want to do this for a bit of fun then get in to it, i'll share a few links with you and you can be on your way to enjoying yourself real quick. However if you want to do this with a set purpose in mind like filming, then realistically consider that you are going to need to invest a hell of a lot of time in to this first before you're anywhere near that level. I specced out a build sheet for Sinbad, which I am happy to forward you that comes out to about $500 that would get someone started with something pretty decent to start off with that's fairly cheap to repair and has everything you need to get started. It's also heavily based around Goz's first setup/build of his quadcopter. You're in Yarra Junction, make a trip to Melbourne one afternoon and i'll let you look/play/fiddle with some of my gear and even let you fly one you can break on a simulator first, and then for real out in the park Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted November 27, 2012 Report Share Posted November 27, 2012 ... and even let you fly one you can break on a simulator first What sim would you recommend for quads? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted November 27, 2012 Report Share Posted November 27, 2012 Decisions decisions, my patience might be the problem ( not renowned for having much of that) I've seen these things on the TV and had hoped flying them wouldn't be too hard. Line of sight is probably all required for now. A sort of static aerial shot would have been ok but as you say allowing for wind is another thing ( just what kind of knots can your setup handle). I know when I started the kite thing I thought one kite would do me 15 months later I've got 9. Not sure I want to fall into another money pit given your now experienced advice. Thousands doesn't fall onto my wish list 500 sounds ok though. I will take you up on your come try before you buy offer, but it might have to be next year as being a tradie the rush before Xmas is insane, I'd be interested to see how they fly in experienced hands too. Given you bought it for doing a bit of kite video, have you used it for this purpose yet...... If so links ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jabroni Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 What sim would you recommend for quads? I use Phoenix, it has one quad. If you're just after a static shot, put a camera on a kite. Maybe stabilised on a gimbal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goz Posted November 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 Where's the onboard video Goz? 450s hardly notice another 300g payload... You going to put some orientation LEDs on them? Will be mounting a camera on it when I can afford to get a Gopro or something similar, won'be for a while though as the bank account has taken a huge pummeling paying for drugs and medical aids during my little break from work. I have a few blue and green led strips that will be mounted to the arms when I work out exactlly where i want to put them, so far i'm thinking along the bottom of the arms will work out best. +1 for Phoenix with a bit of editing I have been able to get the quad in that to handle close to what mine does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 If you're just after a static shot, put a camera on a kite. Maybe stabilised on a gimbal? When I say static, I mean not chasing a kite up the beach, I've got a kite mount, it has it's difficulties not the least of which is dangling from strings at funny angles, I have done a bit of vid with that and posted it. Ideally you might do something like....... A high shot, turning to follow the kite and going down at the same time, give it a 3 dimensional aspect. The movie director in me has lots of ideas but not much practical experience. Sluggos lonely boy vid had a nice aerial run down the beach .... Looked like a light plane shot but it gave it extra depth. The wind thing has me thinking though, a 15 knot wind makes it much harder all around. Mind you no wind ... No kiting .... We need to see what you guys have managed to do so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goz Posted November 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 The video I posted was shot in 10 to 15 knots and the quad handled it better than I expected, and that was was with 10" props on so there was a fair bit of rotor area for the wind to push against. If your filming in wind you will probably need to be able to adjust the angle the camera sits on to compensate for the tilt the quad has to be at to counter the effect of the wind. For example when I had the quad hovering at a fixed point facing into a 15 knot wind the body of the quad would have been at an angle of around 10 to 15 degrees so the camera would be pointing down a bit more than if it was hovering with it's back to the wind. I'm starting to see the sense in running a self leveling gimbal mount in some situations, but you could also compensate by repositioning the quad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jabroni Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 Here are a few of my on-boards (450 size quad - sub $500): https://vimeo.com/43715893 https://vimeo.com/43900592 https://vimeo.com/44145026 You can see in the higher altitude flights how it handles in gusty winds. I haven't taken it to the beach yet. Could be an idea to do your filming on no-wind days... of course there are no no-wind days at Yeppoon - right Goz... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goz Posted November 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 Could be an idea to do your filming on no-wind days... of course there are no no-wind days at Yeppoon - right Goz... There aren't many no wind days but, there are a few light wind days. I try not to think about the wind at the moment as it will be around another 6 months before I'm back in the buggy seat. Been a bit windy the last week which is a bit of a bummer when your waiting on no wind so you can do some more tunning on the quad PID's. At least once I'm recovered I will be wind or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bones Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 When I say static, I mean not chasing a kite up the beach, I've got a kite mount, it has it's difficulties not the least of which is dangling from strings at funny angles, I have done a bit of vid with that and posted it. Ideally you might do something like....... A high shot, turning to follow the kite and going down at the same time, give it a 3 dimensional aspect. The movie director in me has lots of ideas but not much practical experience. Sluggos lonely boy vid had a nice aerial run down the beach .... Looked like a light plane shot but it gave it extra depth. The wind thing has me thinking though, a 15 knot wind makes it much harder all around. Mind you no wind ... No kiting .... We need to see what you guys have managed to do so far. Have you seen this video? He is towing a single line kite on his buggy. You could use a revolution kite to provide a platform that is controllable. Anyone try this? You could even have someone flying a stunt kite from a trailer behind your buggy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 The YouTube vid sadly whilst recording the event has all the quality of a drunken sailor. I have tried a standard kite mount at about 3:00 http://vimeo.com/user10183876 I'm going to pass on the standard tow kite, it would cause problems with other kiters going past etc, could be fine on your own. Had alook at jabronis videos, impressive it went up well above the 5 storey building opposite and looping the tree looked easy, the link for the $400 ish copter, I presume needs electronic control box how many servos these things need. What's the cost of that? Plus I read the standard rotors might be perhaps less than satisfactory ( done a little research around on the f450 ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jabroni Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 I presume needs electronic control box Yeah, just a receiver - $10 from Hobby King I'm using it with my existing 6 channel helli transmitter... this might cost a bit if you don't have one. You could use the turnigy ones from HK. how many servos these things need Zero servos needed. Unless you want your camera on a gimbal. Plus I read the standard rotors might be perhaps less than satisfactory DJI promptly stopped using the old dodgy props. They now ship with props that have a reinforced hub - none of mine have broken. I use 1045 Gemfan props as cheap spares - a stepped reemer enlages them to the required size no problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goz Posted November 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 You don't need servos for a quad it's all done by Electrickery Clive If you build a Tricopter you will need one servo for tilting the rear motor for rudder control, Quadcopters, Hexacopters and Octocopters however matain controlled flight by varying the RPM of the electric motors at the end of each arm. This is all done by the Flight Controller which translates control input signals from the reciever and input from sensors connected to the board to send the appropriate signals to the Electronic Speed Controllers connected to each of the motors. A basic Quad will cosist of the following: Frame, these vary in size most common is 450mm from opposite motor centres 4 x Electronic Speed Controllers (ESCs) 4 x Brushless Outrunner Motors (~28mm diameter 750 to 1200 KV) 1 x Flight Controller (Basic Quad I would start with a KK2 board) 1 Power Distribution Board or Wiring Loom 4 x Slow Fly Props, anywhere between 8" to 10" for a 450 size Quad 1 x LiPo battery to power it all (usually a 3s or 4s 2200mah to 3000mah is a good start) flight times are usually around the 9 to 10 min mark 1 x 6 channel or greater reciever 1 x 6 channel or greater transmitter Lots of paitence You should be able to put one together for around the $300 to $350 mark from scratch if you are on a budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goz Posted November 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 For reference here is the list of componets I used to build my SK450 Quad. 1 x Hobbyking SK450 Glass Fiber Quadcopter Frame 450mm (The coloured arms and other spare parts for the SK450 Frame) 1 x Hobbyking KK2.0 Multi-rotor LCD Flight Control Board 1 x Turnigy Multistar 30 Amp Multi-rotor Brushless ESC 2-4S 3 x Turnigy Multistar 20 Amp Multi-rotor Brushless ESC 2-4S (OPTO) 1 x Turnigy Multistar ESC Programming Card for programing the ESCs 1 x XT60 to 4 X 3.5mm bullet Multistar ESC Power Breakout Cable 4 x D2830-11 1000kv Brushless Motor (AUS Warehouse 3 x Turnigy nano-tech 2200mah 3S 45~90C Lipo Pack (AUS Warehouse) 10x4.5 SF Props 2pc Standard Rotation/2 pc RH Rotation (Flouro Yellow) 10x4.5 SF Props 2pc Standard Rotation/2 pc RH Rotation (Black) I have found these props to be pretty good and they have taken a few wacks with no damage On Board Lipoly Low Voltage Alarm (2s~4s) USBasp AVR Programming Device for ATMEL proccessors for updating firmware on the Flight Controller 10CM Male to Male Servo Lead (JR) 26AWG (10pcs/set) HK-171 Thread Locker & Sealant Medium Strength (Blue) it pays to use this on all your screws as you build OrangeRx R710 Spektrum DSM2 Compatible 7Ch w/Failsafe You will need something different if your not using a Spektrum DSM2 compatible Transmitter Going to update my frame a bit later with this add on which will make it a better camera platform Dead Cat Conversion Kit for SK450 Quadcopter Frame Hope that helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Joel Posted November 30, 2012 Report Share Posted November 30, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cesium Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 The tricopter's spotlight is toggled on/off via a receiver controlled switch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goz Posted December 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 Nice Just waiting for a remote switch to arrive so I can finally get some lights hooked up on mine. I've found that flying just on dusk I need some as the quad just becomes a silhouette and it makes orientation difficult at distance. I was going to put a spotlight on to illuminate the orientation ball and some LED strips under the arms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoutherlyBuster Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 So has any one done the flying sourcer option, ie UFO at night. That would generate some attention (or the wrong attention?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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