Naish Torch Beginner Kitesurf Kite or Not

[Jason]

Here are some videos for us all to enjoy-

[lawsonpipes]

haha - cheers jason beats my maths study will watch them now

[Jason]

Jason, you did not answer any of the important questions, I hope you feel better soon, however you did not shoot anything down in this imaginary war that you are involved in.

What Law of Physics ???

Where is the definitive proof that 5 line kites are the safest?

Why did Best drop the octopuss inflation system after just 2 seasons and switch to the superior and well proven external system licensed by Slingshot to all the better and less stubborn brands??

It would seem to me you just came on this thread itching for a fight Steven. The difference is I don't expect everybody to take my word as gospel and you do. I will however tell it as I see it.

How would I know why Best dropped their internal system, I can only imagine it was a cost thing.

Anyway the offer to conduct my test is still open

Jas

[Jason]

haha - cheers jason beats my maths study will watch them now

Yeah it seems you got the bug. Any good at Aerodynamic calculations???

Seems this thread headed the wrong way but the main thing is to get out there and have some fun

[Steve]

Have a nice day, hope its windy where you are.

[lawsonpipes]

haha jason - want to do aeronautical engineering, but no course in wa.

and steve - i have to go and talk to them, and other guys in the perth area, still haven't made a decision yet - and will ask for both of your opinions before i do go and buy a kite

cheers again guys

[Steve]

Have a nice day, hope its windy wherever you are!

[RALKITE]

Steve, You came on this thread to steer lawsonpipes in the direction of brands you have a vested interest, and/or to dealers that sell kites that you have a vested interest in them selling.

Nothing wrong with that, and no one will have shots at you for that.

BUT!!!! just declare so.

As for the Torch being OK for Lawsonpipes? firstly the 5th line system is a great safety system.

Just fly it and if you feel comfortable with it then there is nothing about it that a little commonsense and practice won't overcome.

And as far as I am aware the last kiting fatality that was caused by equipment was a drowning in Hong Kong, where a safety leash wrapped around the end of a bar and the kiter was violently dragged through water by spiraling kite. A Cabrinha Switchblade.

[lawsonpipes]

K Guys

I realise that you guys both run a shop and as a result have to compete to make a sale, so I have to accept that you guys will always want to fight with each other...

but either way i realise that both of you have given me a valuable insight into the kite and your opinions. so thanks for that

as far as a sale goes - i would email you both about that at a later date, but ideas are all i want at the moment

cheers guys

but steve i also have heard what you have said, and will think about it. I am not going to buy one tomorrow, so don't worry about that, I will take on board the good and the bad info heard. I am not going to ignore what you have said

but i am grateful for the opinion both the good and criticism of the kite

[Jason]

Not interested in your fights, manipulation of the forum and negativity Jason.

I came into the thread to assist Lawsonpipes with info that I felt was important and that could help him make a more informed and better decision, you were the one that dropped in on me and attacked my opinion.

Then you concocted silly scenarios and even sillier conclusions to those scenarios. You quoted Laws of Physics, to make yourself sound important and all knowing, but now won't and can't name which laws are involved.

Why did Best drop in internal system which they were paying no royalty fee on, in favour of the better system on which they now pay royalties - does not sound like a cost thing Jason does it?

Based on the experience I have with the kite I responded to the thread about the suitability of the kite for a beginner, when I saw advice that I disagreed with. This is a discussion forum and thats what we are meant to do here, so perhaps you would be better to get off my case and either let it go or admit you are wrong and move on.?

The kite is a good kite I like flying the kite, the kite is not an ideal choice for a beginner IMO. Lawsonpipes (cheers mate) now has that info and sayds he will make his own decision with it in mind, my job here is done.

Take a chill pill.

At what stage here did I say it was the ideal kite for him to learn on?? The question was CAN he learn on one.

No you didn't jump on this thread to offer unbiased advice, it was just an opportunity to have a dig at a brand you are no longer allowed to stock and to pimp your own offerings.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=messiah&search=Search&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&spell=1

Then in order to manipulate things you went back and edited your posts.

Last edited by Steve on 31 May 2010 23:35, edited 2 times in total.

I thought you might be familiar with it but obviously not. Bernoullis theory of lift explains just how kites produce their lift. Here is a link for you- http://www.pilotfriend.com/training/flight_training/aero/bern.htm

I proposed a test and you just say it silly. There was your opportunity to prove me wrong.

No, Best dropped the internal system to save on production costs. Seems like simple economics to me.

Get off your case, let it go and admit I'm wrong?? If you look at my last post I was letting it go but with you being the paranoid person you are had to continue with it. Why is it Steve that you must ALWAYS have the last word??

Lets see.....

[Steve]

Steve, You came on this thread to steer lawsonpipes in the direction of brands you have a vested interest, and/or to dealers that sell kites that you have a vested interest in them selling.

Nothing wrong with that, and no one will have shots at you for that.

BUT!!!! just declare so.

As for the Torch being OK for Lawsonpipes? firstly the 5th line system is a great safety system.

Just fly it and if you feel comfortable with it then there is nothing about it that a little commonsense and practice won't overcome.

And as far as I am aware the last kiting fatality that was caused by equipment was a drowning in Hong Kong, where a safety leash wrapped around the end of a bar and the kiter was violently dragged through water by spiraling kite. A Cabrinha Switchblade.

Tony you came into this thread to have a go, at me personally, and at the brands that my business sells, not nice

Why don't you ever vent this stuff to my face when I see you???

Why hide behind the keyboard?? Call me or come visit and say this rubbish to me face to face like a man does, here's my number 0433323299

I do not have any financial interest in any of he following businesses, nor do I sell anything to SOS kiteboarding in Perth, same with Kite Addition in Perth, same with Choice Kitesurfing in Perth.

Jason Lewis from West Oz Kiteboarding is a person of integrity that I have known for many years, but I do not do business with him directly. He is an Ozone customer of Darren Marshall, another person of extremely high integrity and experience (far more than you and Jason put together).

Indirectly I might make $30-$40 if Lawsonpipes purchased an Ozone kite through Jason via Darren. No one in their right mind could accuse me of pushing that brand strongly in this thread though.

So a person had an equipment malfunction on the worlds most popular kite brand whats your point????? There was also speculation that he suffered a heart attack prior to that incident

There are, no doubt, thousands of people kiting right now on Cabrinha kites and they are not dying and have equipment failures.

Oh thats right, you don't sell Cabrinha do you?

[Steve]

Have a nice day, hope its windy wherever you are!

[plummet]

hehehw. bicker bicker bicker. is this the old bikering fish wifes thread?

i'll throw another brand in the mix.

ozone. get yourself a c4. job done. no more arguments!......

now go to your rooms the lot of you!

[sir lancelot]

Yes, to bed the lot of you! No supper!

Also, kite aerodynamics are exactly the same as aircraft wing aerodynamics, it's just a different profile. Vortex theory and potential flow better explain the generation of lift; Bernoulli only states the pressure differential as a function of the velocity differential.

Good luck selecting a kite Lawsonpipes, I remember all too well what it's like to be a little tight on money at uni! I'm a beginner and pretty happy with my Griffin. There's another kite brand for you!

[RALKITE]

Tony you came into this thread to have a go, at me personally, (now most people would have read this as a helpful hint to avoid the things you get accused of)

I do not have any financial interest in any of he following businesses, nor do I sell anything to SOS kiteboarding in Perth, same with Kite Addition in Perth, same with Choice Kitesurfing in Perth.

Jason Lewis from West Oz Kiteboarding is a person of integrity that I have known for many years, but I do not do business with him directly. He is an Ozone customer of Darren Marshall, another person of extremely high integrity and experience (far more than you and Jason put together).Now that is what I call a real insult

[b]Indirectly I might make $30-$40[/b] if Lawsonpipes purchased an Ozone kite through Jason via Darren. No one in their right mind could accuse me of pushing that brand strongly in this thread though.

So a person had an equipment malfunction on the worlds most popular kite brand whats your point?????The point is that you should not insinuate that 5th line kites are less safe.

See now you have shown that you do have a pecuniary interest behind the advise you gave. Doesn't it feel better to get that off your chest.

And next time you come up to me for a chat, would you prefer me to be much less civil?????

[Steve]

Have a nice day, hope its windy wherever you are!

[lawsonpipes]

plummet

what do you think of the C4 - what has it got for it, why would i want it, haven't looked at it - could i learn on it given my prior flying knowledge

[lawsonpipes]

I just realised how many posts are on here, i think i have missed a few - have to go and read it all through

[kondorman]

I respect your opinion Kondorman, however you are clearly a strong supporter of Jason and Briskites, as can be seen in your post above, correct.?

I have no connection with Briskites but I choose to shop there because I can trust Jason will give me good advise, he's a trustworthy, honest and top bloke, but What's that got to do with this discussion that you had to point out I shop there?

There are many thousands of people who have purchased Waroos and they do not "grow" out of them, including some of the very best riders in the world. I see plenty of extremely good riders on them, you must be a really advanced rider then, yeah?

Do you have to take a dig and micro manage everyone? I did outgrow the Waroo because it couldn't do all the things I wanted, the F-one has a much bigger wind range, and as a 1 kite quiver guy I'm riding more often. Not everyone can have multiple kites, and I reckon the F-one does a better job at that than the Waroo for me.

If you are not an exceptionally talented rider, maybe you swapped brands for a host of other reasons?

Actually I think I'm not doing too bad, in 18 months I've managed to kite most things from flat water to surf to super high winds in Hood River, and yes I did swap brands for a host of other reasons like bigger wind range, better upwind flying, bigger depower, better safety system, better water relaunch and faster turning to name just a few.

Anyone experienced in kiting can tell you its not really the kite that makes a good rider, its the talent or skill in the rider, wouldn't you agree?

Sure you need skill and talent but a good kite sure helps to develop that skill

Riding a fone kite does not make you a better rider, only you and your riding make you a better rider, surely?

The F-one is helping me to progress faster than the Waroo was.

[westfire]

Hi Lasonpipes, I started with a 2004 14m Cabrinha CO2 with a recon safty system, old kite I know & when you deployed the safty it still held an aweful lot of power. The next kite I bought was 18m Naish Torch new old stock (made in 2005 & bought by me in 2007) its a five line & I still use it now in 2010, the only problem I ever had with it, is all the valves needed re-gluing last year thats it. That kite has been smashed & bashed by me something fierce & it still working just fine, yes the Torches are a bit more tricky to ride with & its probably taken me a bit longer to get the hang of the sport with a Torch.

As for relaunching, lauching etc I find them very predictable & when instructed on a few of the things you need to know when flying C-kites I havn't found them to be all that tricky to deal with.As for the safty/depower system on the Naish I personally think its one of the best around & yes I HAVE FLOWN other brands & had to deploy the safty only to find most of the four liners turn into windmills of death, tangle up all the lines with little chance of relaunching once the safty been deployed. Early on I went out with my 18m Torch in 20knots the uper limit for me with that kite, well the wind picked up & soon found myself going downwind fast, deployed the safty, reeled in the kite on the fith line, walked back to the lauch area & packed up the kite alot wiser for the experience.

My next kite was a 2009 Naish Torch, which yes I bought of Jason from Briskites, it was his personal kite (so yes it was second hand) Its the kite I mainly use & again I have found it to work in winds I thought I would never get going in with what I considered a small kite for me. I have progressed further with that kite than any other kite I have owned & again it has not given me any trouble in the inflation/bladder system at all.

I have had that kite out in 30knot days & feel very comfortable with it in those winds (The 12m) pull the depower line through the cleat, lock it & of I go, if it gets to over the top pull the safty. The bulk of my learning to kitesurf has been with Naish Torches, they might not be the best beginer kite, in my opinion if I can learn to kite with a Torch damm near anyone can.

[lawsonpipes]

thanks guys

westfire, great to hear that you have been able to learn on one. I am in WA so would probably be looking at the 9m sizeish area rather than the 12 so yeah. But thanks for the advice.

[st00pid]

If it's a kite made by naish you can't go wrong I love my cults and never had an issue with them.

[happypants44]

my very limited 2c

most kites of the last couple of years are all good and similarly safe

for the difference in price I wouldn't go further back in time than that as they just aren't as safe and not cheap enough to warrant the saving (all this is bit is opinion only and u r all welcome to ur own)

I did a lot of research recently and ended up buying new cos I just didn't want to take any risks on something someone else had looked after when I was relying on it in such a big way as a newbie

So I ended up buying new and the next stage was ringing round

I went through everyone from backstreet out of the garage dealers to all the big boys with the well known banners

Even looked at options abroad as have come from UK and have those options

I will state at this point I have no affiliation to anyone, couldn't give a shit if we have 1 dealer or many over here (prefer many from the competition point of view but we are in a global society), or if they all take each other out and shoot each other, I just am happy to share my experience

I rang and spoke to just about everyone u can

ended up with an 11m Slingshot and 139 board

nobody else gave me as much good advice, a whole load of free lessons, a huge amount of their personal time, a welcome to the community and tips on areas to play in, as much encouragement as they could and most importantly nobody came near the price he gave me and I am talking not even within $500

And who was this mystery person

Well he is still a tosser but funnily enough it was Steve

Like I say, no affiliation to anyone but am happy to say if someone helped me out cos I thought that was the ozzie way

Good job I have lost the pommie ways or i would be on here telling about the couple of people who heard I was in NSW and then proceeded to be as rude as they could to get a cheap shot in

Like i say, my 2c and I am sticking to it!

Anyway good luck in ur search mate, enjoy ur time on the water and don't bother listening to most of the crap on here unless it is a boring day at work!

cheers

G

[.Joel]

Hi Guys

I recently put up any suggestions for beginner kitesurfing kite, and have been looking at a second hand Naish Torch. I can fly my blade 4 , 4.9m with harness and bar and jumping comfortably and also buggying. Is the torch going to be a dangerous stupid idea given that i don't want to outgrow my kite in a week, and that i can fly, and buggy, and understand the power of the wind.

Any suggestions would be much appreciated

Cheers

For an absolute beginner that has never kited before there's better choices out there to learn on.

For someone like yourself who already understands using a kite and the principles of jumping then it's one of many great options for you. I had the North Vegas Kites and the 5th line relaunch is a piece of cake, in high winds I rather have a 5th line like than a 4 line and I feel safer with it. The Naish Torch is a very popular C, has a heap of depower and just feels like a great kite without an over-complicated system trying to replicate a 5th line.

[.Joel]

Naish are dropping the octopus system for 2011 kites so you have to wonder why don't you?

Hi Steve,

genuine question, can you please confirm this information to be accurate and not erroneous information being spread?

Regards,

.Joel