Snowkiting Questions

[gcdave]

OK, I cannot help but start my research well before the season starts and have a few questions to kick things off with!

I'm thinking of NZ this winter, havn't skied or snow boarded before but i have no doubts about my ability to do so Yes, i figure i could hire a board...but we all know we're addicted so why bother with hiring? So, what size board should I be looking at? I'm 174cm, 68kgs. On the water I use a 125, and Id would say I fall under the category of freestyle with board choice, if that helps with selection?

Ok, next is another kite..

I spend most my time on my 10.5m Core GT on the water (13-30+kts~), and as much as I would love to use it on the snow, i would prefer the idea of a depower foil (icey surface + LEI = pain in the arse!). This foil will also be used for some landboard sesssions as well back home, so i'm after some lift way from the snow! Even though I have never kited on mountain tops before, I'm guessing a 10m or so foil would be reasonable enough, but not too much bigger at all.

Any thoughts or suggestions please

Dave

[skier]

Hi Dave

8m Manta3 or 10m Manta II would be my recommendation

I know that Kitepower have a 10m MII in their sale section

I know nothing about boards... except that apparently the board you normally ride downhill should work just fine...

[gcdave]

Hi Dave

8m Manta3 or 10m Manta II would be my recommendation

I know that Kitepower have a 10m MII in their sale section

I know nothing about boards... except that apparently the board you normally ride downhill should work just fine...

Im picturing either ozone or FS at this stage..I did figure many will reply with manta or access so we'll wait and see I'm not sure if i'm shooting too high with wanting a 10m foil, because I havn't ticked off the list "stuck in rotors on mountain tops" - yet. But at the same time, I don't want to have to catch lifts because its less then 10kts...

Boardwise, from what i understand they're longer then kitesurfing boards (for the same weight/height). I'm sure that what ever board I put under my feet will be fine, I'm just after a little more then just my opinion!

Cheers

[skier]

The wind is a bit of everything in Oz so so if you want only one kite you should look for something with the greatest range. Smaller kites generally have more range and generally as the wind increases it becomes gustier. NZ is probably a bit gnarlier again...

Ask the guys at your local ski shop what board is best for your height/weight/riding style.

But most of all just get out there and enjoy the wind and snow - take care and go with a friend or hook up with the guides based in wanaka.

[Jason]

Take a look at the video on this page - http://www.briskites.com.au/index.php?l=product_detail&p=595

It describes very well what you will need in a board.

As for kites I'm sure others will agree that in the OZ snow fields it's either very light or blowing a gale. So either get 2 kites or choose one for the winds you think you will want to go in the most.

[Jason]

I'd also suggest trying some of the kites in the EK demo scheme.

[gcdave]

I guess i should try a few different depower foils...im unsure of getting either a 6m and use my 10.5 for lighter days, or simply get an 8m..but then id like a 10m for the hang time on landboard.. I could use my 3m or 6m fixed bridle for some conditions, but am not keen on that idea Handles, fixed bridle and gusts......mmmmmm...

Do those Nobile snowkite boards come with those step in bindings, or are they stocked? Colour choice/lead time for choice? Just sniffing at the mo..

Thanks for the link and 2c!

Dave

[imjimbo]

id get blakants 10m outlaw for the mid to low wind days and a 3.5 cult or rage fixed bridal for the out of control days

the board .... it has to be within an inch or so of your height... the fatter the width the more stable but less turnable...

i think there all about the same thickness these days....

good luck..

ps but a camera i wanna see pics of the adventure...

[gcdave]

id get blakants 10m outlaw for the mid to low wind days and a 3.5 cult or rage fixed bridal for the out of control days

the board .... it has to be within an inch or so of your height... the fatter the width the more stable but less turnable...

i think there all about the same thickness these days....

good luck..

ps but a camera i wanna see pics of the adventure...

I just noticed blankants outlaw up for sale...I'm in no rush yet I don't wish a fat slow board - small and fun is the way to go! same as my kitesurfing..how can a fat stable board still be fun - its to easy

A GoPro cam is also on the shopping list as well, don't worry about that

Cheers

Dave

Keep the opinions coming! Im not the only one out there who wants to snowkite this coming season

[Spartan]

Hi Dave, hope you've been getting some good sessions up there since I saw you on my visit.

I think I might try Hotham this winter. I wish I could get to NZ but finances dont alow.

Mate, if you pick of the Flysurfer Out law, HQ Montana, or the Ozone FYX Frenzy or Manta you cant go wrong.

Joe ( Jolli ) has a 12.5 Montana for sale on the Forum for $700, a bargain, hardly been used.

You asked for each persons opinion, well here's mine. The Ozone 10m M3 Manta is the kite that is purposely built for snow Kiting. I recently picked up the 8m and 10m M3 manta myself and I can say its the best kite I've used. The jumps and floats are mind blowing, to give you an example when you saw me using the 11m FYX Frenzy up there in QLD jumping, I was doing 2 different grabs, and now with the Manta Im getting in 4. the best part of the kite is that when you let go of the bar the power in the kite is just about nil, for a safty perspective thats brilliant.

Spartan

[gcdave]

Hey George! Yeah, have had a heap of sessions since you were up my way - and have progressed an absolute heap to show for it too

Id be happy enough to stay in Aust for the snow, but the a.) from what I can figure its cheaper to go to NZ (from qld) and b.)the season starts earlier in NZ Those kites are on the short list, for sure! M3 sounds the treat...but im telling myself not to jump at my first thoughts - yet A 10m is very appealing, espesh if the depower allows a huge wind range for gusty mountains and also for floaty landboarding.

Thanks

Dave

[Goz]

You could always get a Flysufer speed 2 or psycho 4 and have it for land and the water, I have seen a few around second hand lately.

Luke has a 8m Speed 2 advertised http://www.extremekites.com.au/forums/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=12872

Or perhaps a Neo 2

[Lochran]

Hi

Think i'm in the same boat as dave here

I'm from perth and have been kiting here for about 3 seasons.

but this july i'm heading over to hothem to try out snowboarding and am interested in snowkiting too

are there any spots in hothem for snowkiting?

can i use my 10.5 naish or would it be better getting a smaller foil kite, do you tend to need less kite area

on snow when compared to water? and anything to watch out for like jumping off mountain sides or something haha

cheers lochran

[gcdave]

Hi

Think i'm in the same boat as dave here

I'm from perth and have been kiting here for about 3 seasons.

but this july i'm heading over to hothem to try out snowboarding and am interested in snowkiting too

are there any spots in hothem for snowkiting?

can i use my 10.5 naish or would it be better getting a smaller foil kite, do you tend to need less kite area

on snow when compared to water? and anything to watch out for like jumping off mountain sides or something haha

cheers lochran

From what i figure, kiting with a LEI is of course doable just like kiting on water is doable with a foil - but there's reasons why each kite has their "place"

I have no real idea about Hotham being the place to snowkite - at first looks at a few previous posts, i think Falls Creek was the pick? I'm hoping someone can lay down some GPS co-ords for THE place to go in Australia for snowkiting...Please

I'm still dead keen on NZ - nearly seems easier then using our own fields (and cheaper, at first glance)...At this stage, im still looking at a 10m foil, as i want some decent air time on the snow. Yes, gusty conditions could be interesting on a mountain top, but i have enough kiting under the belt to confidently deal with knowing when i should change to a smaller kite (will take a couple of fixed bridle foils) or simply snowboard.

I'm unsure of the general trends of winds in winter in the snowfields in Australia - anyone? Or is it seriously hit and miss....Im thinking of 14+ days of icey cold fun NZ i believe is August-Sept for winds?

Goz, nothings set in stone, but i may be a FS fan soon...

Dave

[Lochran]

sweet

yeah think ill take my LEI along with me, and if there is wind and some flat empty spade give it a shot.

If you can hold down say a 10m on water would you be able to do the same in the same wind speed on snow?

i get the feeling being over powered on snow is going to be really fast

[SoutherlyBuster]

Dave,

Have you considered the Peter Lynn Arcs? The depower is very good and they are well suited to taking the gusts as a consequence. I've recently tried the 10m^2 PL Charger, very smooth power, turns very fast if you want it too. You can use this kite for all three sports, water, landboarding and snow. For the water action this would be your high wind kite.

I use a PL Venom II 13m^2 for most of my water and landboard action and use my PL Synergy 8m^2 for the high wind days.

I suspect the Charger will hit the EK demo system very soon. Briskites and MrFloat (EK name) are selling them.

Regards,

Norman

[gcdave]

Cheers for the thought of the charger Norm - i think my mind is pretty set at this stage though

Dave

[Goz]

Cheers for the thought of the charger Norm - i think my mind is pretty set at this stage though

Dave

Now would that be that your mind is set on a kite, or set on thinking about drinking more

From what I have read on various forums around the world the 8m to 10m kites seem to be the most common for snow kiting. Tubes do seem to be just as popular as foils but the main problem I can see is the pump would just add another thing you need to carry around with you.

[gcdave]

Now would that be that your mind is set on a kite, or set on thinking about drinking more

Both

From what I have read on various forums around the world the 8m to 10m kites seem to be the most common for snow kiting. Tubes do seem to be just as popular as foils but the main problem I can see is the pump would just add another thing you need to carry around with you.

Many do use LEI for snow use, that i've seen online. Foil appeals as the safer option (partic for to solo snowkiting), and yes id rather carry beer/food/more kites with me then a pump!

[SoutherlyBuster]

As for the LEI's I do recall them being baned at some snow places. Don't really agree with it but just thought I would mention that. ie check what is allowed at the spot you want to kite at.

[gcdave]

Ahahaha, seriously? What crap is that...that's like it's 'banned' to use twin tip boards in some places on the east coast..

Its just locals spitting chips over nothing - fk'm

Dave

[gcdave]

I will soon be in the possession of a 10m Outlaw (posted today )

Next stop is a board

Dave

[gcdave]

Best bit of New Zealand snowkiting info I have come across so far. Now to find the same type of content for Australia (don't like my chances though..)

http://www.35th.com.au/travel-news/where-to-snowkite-in-new-zealand.html

It only takes a quick glance at the globe to see that the Southern hemisphere has far less land than the northern hemisphere and therefore far fewer places to snowkite. A look at our earth from the poles is even more revealing. The land masses of the Northern Hemisphere extend much further north while in the southern hemisphere there is the Antarctic in the polar region but the temperate zone is covered mostly by the oceans. Your choices are South America, Australia or New Zealand. If you're thinking of a snowkiting trip to New Zeland, then here's all the info you need.I guess it is human nature to believe that things must be better somewhere else. The grass is always greener or in this case the snow and wind is always better-on the other side of the fence. So I started the winter thinking Australia was the place, or even Chile or somewhere else in South America.

Here in little ol New Zealand the mountains are too steep and surely the first few waves of snowkiting pioneers had already discovered the only really good spot in the country-Snowfarm on the Waiorau range. A few months later and I realize I couldn’t have been more wrong, after a season of missions that revealed New Zealand is a snowkiting paradise. If you are after easily accessible park and ride conditions it is true that the choices are limited. But if you love a mission and the rewards of backcountry exploration, there could be few places on earth that could match the Southern Alps.

There’s a reason the world champion chooses to return year after year. Chasta could be in Tahiti enjoying kitesurfing in his own backyard in conditions most of us would kill for. Instead, he chooses to spend a good deal of time in New Zealand because he loves it. Now I understand why.

Snowkiting New Zealand General Info

Description

New Zealand consists of 2 main islands lying between 34-46 degrees south latitude. Mountains on the north island are volcanic cones rising to 9,176 feet (2797 m) while the southern alps is formed by the collision of the Pacific and Australian techtonic plates and forms a range which rises to 12,316 feet (3754 m).

Snowkiting Conditions in NZ

New Zealand’s weather is an interplay between some key influences. Understanding the weather will vastly improve your chances of scoring the best snowkiting conditions on the day and will prove invaluable in striking up a conversation with locals. The 2 hottest topics of conversation on any day are the weather and rugby.

1. Australia and the tropics. Australia is largely desert and is an intense source of heat for the air which will eventually make it’s way to New Zealand. Northerly systems bring down warm, moist air from the tropics. Kiwis have long known that anything that comes from Aussie is full of hot air!

2. The Tasman Sea. Warm air from Australia picks up moisture as it passes across the Tasman sea.

3. The Antarctic. During the winter months a steady stream of lows is produced off the Antarctic. As they drift northward the first land they encounter is often the Southern Alps.

4. The Southern Alps- The main range of mountains in New Zealand presents an enormous wall these systems must rise over. The air cools as it rises, condenses and drops it’s load of moisture.

New Zealand lies within the “Roaring forties”. It’s a windy place. Systems tend to move through with low pressure areas circulating in a clockwise direction. Typical pre frontal winds will be from the west as the low approaches New Zealand. If the low is more north the winds will tend northwest, if south, winds will be more westerly.

Generally the freezing level will move down the mountain as the low passes with each front becoming progressively colder until the following high pressure area takes hold. As the low passes winds will tend more southerly.

Commercial ski resorts begin opening in June and generally close the first week of October. There is often good conditions in the higher mountain areas and glaciers through November and even later.

Skill level

New Zealand offers excellent conditions for learning through to freestyle and backcountry missions.

Directions

Fly into Queenstown or Wanaka.

Facilities

Base yourself in Wanaka or Queenstown on the South Island. Both are full service resort towns.

Shops/Schools/Camps

Boarder Patrol offers day lessons, rentals and equipment sales. 35th Parallel offers week long snowkiting camps.

Restrictions

At Ski areas check in with ski patrol. They probably won’t allow you to ride on the skifield itself, at least not while they are open but will permit snowkiting in the out of bounds areas.

On farms leave gates as you found them, i.e. if open, leave open, if closed, then close the gate behind you. This is VERY IMPORTANT to maintaining good relations with land owners. Respect the land and livestock.

Other

The New Zealand backcountry offers unlimited potential for exploration. However, snowkiting provides a means to get deep into the backcountry very quickly. If you are not trained in backcountry survival attend a camp or course to gain some skills.

The following snowkiting spots are listed in order of easily accessible spots first and then more difficult or expensive options.

Snowkiting Snowfarm and the Pisa Range

For ease of access, consistency and variety Snow Farm is the top snowkiting spot in New Zealand. Located on the Wairua range at 4920 ft (1500 meters), the kite spot get’s good snow cover and is kite-able in winds from just about any direction.

The Pisa range is adjacent to and accessible from Snowfarm. The range runs north to south and rises to 6400 FT(1950m) offering a variety of snow and wind conditions. Early and late season when Snowfarm’s snow cover is patchy, a short walk up into the Pisa can often save the day. This is a Department of Conservation reserve. Kiting access is along the proving ground fence line north to the end of the testing area and then east across a shallow gully to access the ridge which will take you all the way to the summit. For hiking access check in at The Proving Ground office and take the more direct route to the snowline.

Conditions

Terrain: flat ridges and shallow gullies provide great beginner and freestyle terrain while the Pisa offers acres of everything including some steeps and endless backcountry exploration.

Wind: Best Northeast thru to West but can be kiteable in any direction. As the winds come more to the south the wind strength needs to be quite strong. If it’s lighter winds and south west go to Cardrona across the valley instead.

Skill level: Beginner to expert

Directions: Situated along the Cardrona Valley, 35 kms from Wanaka and 55kms from Queenstown. Easy road access. Carry chains. Pay $15 at Base Lodge for kite pass. Park at the top car park and cross the gully opposite the lodge building to the flat ridge approx 500 meters away.

Local Info: http://www.snow-forecast.com/resorts/Snow-Farm/6day/top

Facilities: Lodge at base car park with hotel rooms, restrooms, café, bar and restaurant.

Restrictions: Be careful to respect the boundaries with Southern Hemisphere Proving Ground which operates winter vehicle testing or you could get an unscheduled ride on the hood of Toyotas latest creation or a fine for $2500.

Notes: Please don’t kite back to the car park unless you can land your kite safely.

Snowkiting Cardrona

The back bowls of Cardrona magnify the Southwest wind and have epic conditions when its on. The top area near the ski field is great for freestyle and there is often a crowd watching the action. Further downhill it get’s steeper and there’s plenty of scope for backcountry exploration.

Conditions

Terrain: The top is fairly flat providing a good area for freestyle and then it falls away to the southwest in a series of bowls for downhill/uphill riding with lots of wind lips, large rocks and other interesting features

Wind: light to moderate Southwest wind.

Skill level: Beginner to expert

Directions: Located across the Cardrona valley opposite Snow Farm. Drive up to Cardrona ski resort and park in the car park below the resort. The kiting area is towards Queenstown.

Local Info: http://www.snow-forecast.com/resorts/Cardrona/6day/bot

Facilities: The resort has a lodge, restaurant and ski and snowboard rental facilities.

Restrictions: Please do not snowkite within the ski field boundary.

Snowkiting The Remarkables

The Remarkables mountain range provides a spectacular backdrop for Queenstown.

Conditions

Terrain: Steep and undulating, lots of big rolls. Gets steeper towards the ski field.

Wind: North east wind

Skill level: Advanced to Expert

Directions: From Queenstown follow highway 6 out of town to the Remarkables turnoff. Follow the unsealed access road. As you reach the snow line you have the ridgeline to your right. This area is called Outward Bound and connects to Homeward bound. For skiers and boarders these runs are accessed via the Shadow Basin on the ski field. For snowkiters find a place to park your car off the road and you’re away.

Facilities: Full day resort facilities available on the ski field.

Restrictions: Snowkiting is not allowed within the ski field boundary.

Other: The drop off the other side would be fatal so stay well clear of the top of the ridge with your kite in the air.

There is also some great snowkite terrain for those with touring gear in the Wye Valley which is accessed from the top of the Alta Chair. This requires a South to Southwest wind and full backcountry gear.

Snowkiting Treble Cone

Treble cone is the most scenic commercial ski field in a country that boasts some of the most spectacular scenery in the world. “TC” is also recommended as the spot to head on a windless powder day.

Conditions

Terrain: A flat terrace located near the top of a steep ridge which provides some good intermediate terrain and opens access to unlimited backcountry possibilities.

Wind: Southeast

Skill level: intermediate to expert

Directions: 19 kms from Wanaka along the Matukituki valley road. The kite spot is located at the top of the Saddle Chair lift. Hang a left off the chair and head for the flat spot on the other side of the ski area boundary called “Tim’s Table”. There’s enough space here for maybe 3 or 4 people to kite on the flat, but follow the ridge out to the Southwest and there are miles of untracked terrain to explore.

Facilities: full day resort facilities

Restrictions: snowkiting is not allowed within ski area boundaries. Be prepared for the backcountry if kiting into the steeper terrain or away from “Tim’s table”.

The Old Man Range

“Who needs Norway when you have this!” Chasta

Conditions

Terrain: Miles and miles and miles of perfect snowkite terrain. Mostly low angle but with plenty of small bowls and steeps to explore.

Wind: Good in any wind direction. Anything from the east and you can kite up to the top from where you park. Otherwise be prepared to hike.

Skill level: Beginner to Expert

Directions: Head for Roxburgh along highway 8. Turn right on Symes Road. Can be very muddy and may require chains. 4WD recommended.

Facilities: None. Be prepared

Restrictions: Be prepared for backcountry travel.

Snowkiting The Old Woman Range

The Old Woman Range is on the other side of the Old Man Range and is a continuation of similar terrain to higher elevations.

Conditions

Terrain: Miles of wide open, low angle, perfect snowkite terrain with interesting rock features and bowls.

Wind: Best in Northwest through to southwest but can be good in any wind direction

Skill level: Beginner to expert

Directions: Head to Bannockburn near Cromwell and follow the Bannockburn road which turns into the Nevis Road. Follow it to the summit. If the snow line is low enough you may be able to kite from here. Otherwise, you will need a serious 4WD vehicle or be prepared to hike along the ridge which climbs to the south.

Facilities: None

Restrictions: Be prepared for backcountry travel.

Snowkiting The Hector Mountains

The Hector mountains rises from the southern end of Lake Wakatipu near Kingston. Access requires either snowmobile, snowcat or helicopter.

Conditions

Terrain: Flatish ridgeline open to pretty much any wind direction with steeper bowls falling away to the east.

Wind: Ridgeline-Any, Bowls-Northeast to southeast

Skill level: beginner to expert

Directions: Contact Boarder Patrol or Southern Alps Sleds

Local Info: http://www.southernalpssleds.com

Facilities: Dilapidated ski club hut

Snowkiting The Glaciers

The Franz Joseph and Fox Glacier Neves are enormous lakes of ice and snow perched beneath New Zealand’s highest peaks. Centennial and Pioneer Huts provide stunning views and are ideal bases for snowkite exploration.

Conditions

Wind: North through west

Skill level: Snowkite skill- intermediate to expert. Alpine skills also required.

Directions: Helicopter to Pioneer Hut from Fox Township and to Centennial Hut from Franz Josesph.

Local Info: http://www.helicopter.co.nz

Facilities: Alpine huts

Restrictions: Must be prepared for high alpine conditions and travel on glaciated terrain. Mountain Guides are available for snowkiting expeditions.

Snowkiting Camps & Info

If you're keen to go snowkiting in New Zealand, check out our camps. We offer camps for beginner snowkiters through to advanced riders who want to ride with the world champ, Chasta!

[Goz]

Bloody good information in all that Dave

[gcdave]

Someones got a beat the drum on XK in this section Goz

At this stage still, im thinking of doing a week or something in Aust, and would love 10-14 days in NZ this year as well...

I'm just justifying my hobbie..or was it 'addiction to kiting' ?

Dave