alib987

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Selling Naish Torch 7m 2010. £150 Posted in the UK Kite is in good condition. Canopy has one small repair as shown in pics. Leading edge has no repairs or leaks. http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii290/alib987/Naish%20Torch%207m%202010/IMG_20150407_142432.jpg http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii290/alib987/Naish%20Torch%207m%202010/IMG_20150407_142416.jpg http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii290/alib987/Naish%20Torch%207m%202010/IMG_20150407_142358.jpg http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii290/alib987/Naish%20Torch%207m%202010/IMG_20150407_142503.jpg http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii290/alib987/Naish%20Torch%207m%202010/IMG_20150407_142439.jpg

Selling Naish Torch 14m 2007. £140 Posted in the UK Kite is in really good condition. Canopy is in really good condition and shows has no signs of wear. Leading edge has no repairs. The bumpers look knew. There is a small rip in the canopy which has been patched, shown in pics. There are a couple of very small pin holes on one panel that I have patched. http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii290/alib987/Naish%20Torch%2014m%202007/IMG_20150408_141737.jpg http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii290/alib987/Naish%20Torch%2014m%202007/IMG_20150408_141641.jpg http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii290/alib987/Naish%20Torch%2014m%202007/IMG_20150408_141634.jpg http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii290/alib987/Naish%20Torch%2014m%202007/IMG_20150408_141559.jpg http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii290/alib987/Naish%20Torch%2014m%202007/IMG_20150408_141827.jpg http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii290/alib987/Naish%20Torch%2014m%202007/IMG_20150408_141749.jpg

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Selling my 2008 Naish Torch 10m. Kite is in good condition with no repairs. Looking for £130 for kite only or £170 complete. Pics to follow. Kite is in South Wales

what year bar andl ines. Is it a shift or 4 line sle bar?

I wouldn't say that it was that doubtfull. What have Naish changed with regards to this problem since 2007. The only thing i can think of is a slightly different dacron, which has kind of pin stripes in the weeve. Other than that there is nothing different. If you use the Naish torch a lot and it is turned over incorrectly then this problem with still happen. All torch riders should look at the pic below on how to turn over a Torch correctly to avoid this problem. About the guy whose kite burst here when relaunching. Not sure if you can remember but was the leading edge wind tip caught somewhere and bend when relaunching. Chances are as there is not many possible ways to burst a kite when relaunching. Hope these pics help. Incorrect method! Look at the leading edge by the end strut! http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii290/alib987/wrongmethod.jpg Correct method Look at the point i lifted the leading edge and the point that the kites weight rests on when turned over. http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii290/alib987/correctmethod.jpg

Selling a pair of Naish 2007 Grav-D1. These have only been used twice. This is pretty clear from the photos. Looking for £50 posted. PM me if you interested http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii290/alib987/IMG_1709.jpg http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii290/alib987/IMG_1708.jpg http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii290/alib987/IMG_1710-1.jpg

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Brand new, never used 20inch Naish Shift Bar with 24m lines. This is the 2007 shift bar which will work with any Torch or Raven as Naish have not changed their line lengths on the Torch since it began in 2005. I will also work with other fifth line kites with a bit of tweeking. Like the North Vegas or Rebel or Primadonna's. Pictures available on request, is completely new with bar bag. £130 posted

Brand new, never used opened 20inch Naish Shift Bar with 24m lines. This is the 2007 shift bar which will work with any Torch or Raven as Naish have not changed their line lengths on the Torch since it began in 2005. I will also work with other fifth line kites with a bit of tweeking. Like the North Vegas or Rebel or Primadonna's. Pictures available on request, but is completely new with bar bag. £130 posted

Hey crossland. Yeah should be back for aussie kiss, if its still on that is. In reply to Andy C, i am not sure why more has not been done to stop this wear on the stitching at this point. The first batch of Torch 3's did not have the aramid patch where the power lines and stearing lines attach to the kite, but the later batches did. You would think that if they had picked this problem up so quickly they would have put a similar patch over this section, which they have now done on the 2010 torch. Again i do not think that this is the problem, as for me all of the bursts have occured next to the stitching, and have been cause by bending of the leading edge when turned over. I think the only way Naish can stop this problem, without changing the shape/design of the kite, is to just reinforce this area with either thicker dacron, or double layer, if that is even possible. I am not an expert in the slightest regarding kite manufacture/design, so if anyone knows of any other methods to reduce/stop this problem occuring please add to this thread.

Leading edge wear. I think that some people think that wear on the leading edge is also contributing to this problem. I am not entirely sure if it is or is not. Below is a picture of the leading edge stitching by the end strut. Of all the leading edge burst none have been exactly on the stitching, always slightly next to it. I think that putting a patch over this area will reduce the wearing of this stitching but will not stop this problem if the kite is turned over incorrectly. Just to let everyone know the 2010 Torch has an aramid patch over the stitching to stop this wear. http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii290/alib987/DSC06946.jpg

I have owned 7 torches from 2005 to 2008, have had the same problem as others are having with the leading edge bursting close to the wing tip. For my torches this has always happened turning the kite over. I personally think that it is a user error causing the damage not a manufacturing/warranty issue. I have made a sequence of photos, shown below to show how a torch should be turned over to avoid this damage. This is my 2008 12m torch, and I have given it quite a bit of abuse on the water, but it has held up very strong with no repairs to the canopy, but have been very careful when handling it on land. Two weeks ago the kite was turned over incorrectly and the leading edge tore. (the repair is very clear in the photos) There was no wear in this area and it burst when it was turned over incorrectly at the point when the leading edge bent. http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii290/alib987/wrongmethod.jpg http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii290/alib987/correctmethod.jpg The first sequence shows the incorrect method of turning the kite over. The kite laid square/head into the wind. The kite is picked up by the centre strut and rolled towards the wing tip. The weight of the kite is put onto this wing tip and results in the leading edge bending by the end strut. This is very clear in the third photo. The second sequence shows the correct method of turning the kite over. The kite is not quite laid square/head into the wind, but is twisted round a bit. This should be quite clear in the first photo, as one wing tip is flat on the sand and the other pointing vertically up. When turning over I picked the kite up further round from the middle strut (most upwind point on the kite) and rolled the kite over but keeping the weight of the kite on the section of leading edge between the second and third struts, not the wing tip. This completely avoids and bending of the leading edge so should eliminate this problem. I think that the only way Naish as a company can help with this problem is to redesign this section of the kite to have a more rounded/curved section from the end strut to the wing tip, which would completely change the feel and performance of the kite, and I don’t think anyone wants that! Well not me anyway. Just thought this would help some people who have been asking the questions on kiteforum and some who have not seen that thread

I have flown the 10m alliance. Not completely sure it was set up correctly. Did not have much 5line tension, but seemed to fly ok. Turns pretty fast, feels similar to the torch in turning. I was a little underpowered when i flew it, but it did not feel like it had much bottom end. The jumps i did try felt pretty snatchy compared with the torch. Can't compare it to the helix, but if i was to guess, would turn at a similar speed to the helix, but much more direct feel through the bar, with no delay in the turn like the helix will have. think it will go pretty high as well.

One trick that might help, (in light wind mainly) is if you make sure the bar is pushed out, then pull one of the stearing lines, if your holding the bar in you are unintentially pulling the other stearing line. Keep the strearing line pulled, maybe pull in one or two feet of the line. Just practice in the shallows and really try and understand when it works, what you did when it worked. Also make sure the kite is directly downwind of you when practicing as this is generally the hardes to get it up from. then try in the deeper water!! Keep practicing, it can be a bit of an art to relanch an 07 waroo in light wind. Should be ok in stronger winds. Good luck

Another vote for andy at kinetic

I know i'm probably not the best person to telling you this, but 30mins flying a kite in a dangerous area! Don't you think you are responsible to tell them of the dangers of the obvious sea wall at aberavon. That said is it really your responsibility to tell every person who kites in the wrong place. I think this needs more thought. Should you do your upmost to tell every person you see kiting/launching/landing in the wrong place to go to the correct place. I think yes, but there is only so much you can do! Some people will not listen. If they think it is save then they might be right, they could be very experienced, more experienced than the person telling them of the danger, or not know the dangers at that spot and so think it is save. At the end of the day if you have told them and they have not moved and have got injured, you are still going to feel like you could/should have done more to get them to move!!

ok i have to admitt, it was very lazy of me and my friend to set up in the wrong place at Rest. I put my hands up to that and to be honest, and obvious there is no excuse for that. We both knew the rules about rest, but greedy as we were wanted more time on the water with the incoming tide. From speaking with Mark, i was not aware of how keen the council were about this matter. I will definately be setting up in the correct place next time, and landing. Just to let you know Mark we are from Cardiff University but we were kiting on our own and not on any kind of trip related to the University, so to say that it is related to the university is not warrent. Also over the years i am sure you have told the uni kiters to kite in the correct area, but whenever i have taught there i have always made sure we are in the correct area, especially in summer when it is considerably busier. After speaking to you, Mark (Blast) at the beach i fully agree that people should respect the area given at rest. I also think that this matter is more complicate than one might think. Firstly there is nothing (as far as i am aware) stopping surfers surfing in the kitesurfing area. There is also nothing stopping the public walking in the kiting area. I am not sure the exact reason for the council restricting our kiting area, but if surfers and the public are allowed to be anywhere on the beach, then there is not much point in having a designated kiting area as they will be at the same risk no matter where we kiters are! I do agree that it is safer to have the kiters in a confined area, and i think that the general public will see this area and respect it, but it will not stop surfers who i think are in the most danger. One last thing keeping kiters in this designated area is harder than the council think. The conditions yesterday, meant that it was easy to ride downwind into none kiting area. My friend was on a smaller kite and did go down wind into this area, but did try to keep out of this area by walking back upwind to the kite area. I was more powered so stayed up in the correct area, but sometimes did slip back into the none kiting area. Also Mark you will even admit you did not keep to this kiting area, with you and your friends all spending much of you session downwind in the none kiting area, in and amongst the surfers. From teaching here, i'm sure Mark you will agree it is even harder to keep students in this area. It can be done, but it is not easy in certain wind directions. I think the only way this can be policed is by kiters. Mark i know you don't like having to tell everyone to kite in the correct area, but enless you have any other ideas i think it is the only possible way. I think telling everyone to kite in the correct area and setting an example when on the water will help but will not solve the poblem. Any other ideas would be very welcome.

If your pushing freestyle then i recon the bigger one. You will get loads more pop and more stable easier landings.

Cheers james for that. much appriciated!!! Guessing they are self adhesive patches. Also whats the best way to get them on the kite. Clean the leading edge with alcohol, is it best to apply them onto a inflated leading edge or stick them down with no air in the leading edge. Guessing with no air but just want to be sure? Good to hear the actual differences with the torch 5, gonna be flying some of them out in hurghada soon. Can not wait!!! Also hoping to try the new helix. Should be mint!!!

Yeah this does not mean i hadn't been abrased before. There must have been a bit of wear at that point before he relanched it, otherwise this is a bigger problem than just abrasion! I would really like to see if there is any different between the torch 4 and torch 5 at this point. Does anyone on this forum know of any changes, or does anyone have one which they could compare. James do you know of any differences in the build of the torch 5 to the torch 4. I know that the bumpers go further round the leading edge on the t4 compared to the t3, but what about the t5. Would be interesting to know thats all.

I'm not sure that is 100% correct. Definately is correct for the smaller sizes but when my 14m blew out i had pumped it up really hard and when i turned it over the leading edge bent on that section, (right opposite the end strut on the leading edge) and the blew out. I think it is more the tecknique you use to turn the kite over, or at least this can increase/decrease the stress on this section. One reason why, could be due to the section from that seam to the wing tip is one piece that is probably the longest section on the torch. This longer section could cause the leading edge to bend at the seam rather than pivot. Again only with the larger sizes. I would say probably 12m and above. (Although even my 7m did it as well!!!) I think that another reason for the abrasion at this section is due to the design of the kite. If you look at a torch when it is on the ground most of the weight of the kite is on the leading edge up to this point (where the blow out occurs). I think that when you initially lift the leading edge off the ground the weight is transfered onto the section between the wing tip and the end strut. During this weight transfer you will most likely be rubbing this leading edge seam on the ground, so it is going to get more abrasion that the other seams. This is just me trying to think of a reason for this abrasion, but clearly some design work needs to be done to reduce this abrasion. Anyone think this is a reasonable explaination, or just poo!

Just one other thing about the octopus system. I have a lot of naish kites all with octopus systems. Some of the work better than others, regarding the struts staying inflated when i deflate the leading edge. I would like to know the reason why the sometimes struts deflate when i deflate the leading edge. From looking at one of the naish videos where they show you how to repair/replace the bladders, they mention putting tap around the male part then putting it back into the female part. If this stops the air coming out of the strut, then sure there will be a leak in the joint, whether the leading edge is hard or not. Doesn't this mean that when the kite ever ever completely inflated it will always be leaking? But this does not make sense as none of my kites deflate. The only reason i can think of is that the one way valve does not work and air from the strut goes back into the leading edge. Or that the connection between the leading edge and the strut is a better connection when fully inflated? Not sure how much of my description is clear!!!