hydrophobic Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 Apologies if I am repeating what many others have asked... I bought a 12m Turbo Diesel a couple of years ago just after they were launched and consequently had a couple of 'near misses' with inversions which has put me off it permanently so I want to start afresh with a new kite. I've been looking at the 08 atom or the Crossbow 3, but they both seem pretty new and I wanted to get some genuine advice/ experience on them, I don't want to make the same mistake again! Can anyone lend some advice to this decision or should I be looking somewhere completely different? I'm a intermediate flyer (lots of landboarding experiece) and competent on the water, so I'm looking for something that I can just mess around with, but won't try to kill me each time I hit a gust! Thanks for your advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
col Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 cross bow 3, simple push through safety , atom 08 very stable but mini fith line equipped, most new kites have the so called inversion thing sorted.. no offence but the early inversion of bow style kites was pilot error and not understanding the kites, ie you need a bit of back line pressure in horrible gusty wind to stop inversions, only kites that don't really suffer from inversions are the closed cell foils (synergy/venom phantom etc) but then again if you don't know what your doing, they might and still do bow tie.. buy whatever you want but take it easy and learn about the safety systems, and don't wait to find out when our 20ft up and upside down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
park1 Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 i use the '07 naish boxers and have never experienced an inversion or anything close to it. The only kite i've seen invert is an airush halo, and they are about the most bow of all bow kites. I'm not trying to put these kites down as col is right, inversion is due to pilot error as much as the kite. I've seen lots of people of varying abilities, using a whole host of 07 and 08 hybrid kites and have not seen any invert. If your looking fr ne kite to cover al terrains though maybe the Peter Lynn or Flysurfer kites could be good. I used to have a set of PL guerilla's and can say they were excellent for beginner/intermediates on the water and were great for landboarding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hydrophobic Posted February 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 Thanks for the quick response col, appreciate it. You may well be right about the user error (none taken ), unfortunately the mental (and one or two physical) scars have put me off it completely. I originally learnt to kiteboard on the crossbow and was very impressed - never had the same issues with it and so am encouraged by the good reports of the latest model. I've also heard some good things about the atom and want to make sure I make more of an informed buying decision this time. Many Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
park1 Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 Injuries/accidents can have a big mental effect. I broke both my ankles about three years ago (DONT TRY KITELOOPS IN SHALLOW WATER!!!!). Although i got back on the water as soon as i was able (about 8 months later) it took me quite a long time to fully get my confidence back. I have to say the total depower of bow kites really helped me feel a lot safer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
col Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 if you want slighty more performance go for the cb3, good all round grin factor the atom....the cb3 will be a tad more unstable in gusty stuff due to the higher AR, but with push through the bar safety, no worries, the atom is a great kite also, with excellent relaunch and better on the waves. there's some cracking deals around at the mo (ebay) on new stuff so start hunting, most shops will give you the peace of mind of if you don't like it once flown bring it back for a different kite.... well the shop i work for anyway!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tone Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 I am sorry Col, but I do not belive that thing about ealirer BOWs inversions only bein down to rider error... the TD was well known for it, as was the RRD hypertype that scared the **** out of mate SO bad it has taken him months to get over it. there were bad kites out there, only tested in hairdryer wind. i think this years kites are pretty fool proof. As a kite should be! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dp freestyler Posted February 4, 2008 Report Share Posted February 4, 2008 I thought the inversion thing was an issue with some bows - I've flown a Hypertype (SLE) for over a year and never had it, or heard of it, invert. Personally I wouldn't go for a bow, and that's nothing to do with the inversion issue, just really didn't like one when I've tried it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willg54 Posted February 4, 2008 Report Share Posted February 4, 2008 ive flown alot of bow kites over the last couple of years including the TD 12m, and that was the only kite i ever had a problem with inverting! The newer the kite the better it should be...but i still dont think slingshot have got it right yet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kite Kid Posted February 4, 2008 Report Share Posted February 4, 2008 theres loads out there, bow kites may not be the thing for you could be a 5th line man, ie vegas or alliance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiteingcolin Posted February 4, 2008 Report Share Posted February 4, 2008 i am typing this from very sunny egypt, and 2 russian guys turned up 3 days ago with a turbo diesel, great entertainment value, but we all keep a mile away from them as the kite just will not behave in their hands, ok they are not arron hadlows, but this is the first time i have seen anyone draged for a while with the kite in a wierd sort of W shape nose down but the center trailing edge flipped up the middle to form the W, and when he did it for the third time he was less than happy with some strange ruskie swear words spat at it, and in the strong gusts when it took off backwards it flipped inside out and tried to send him into outer space, he understands as we all come ashore and walk upwind of where they play, they also have a cabrina switchblade, which they love to use, buts its a 14 which has been too big sometimes, 2 guys at ainsdale had them turbo kites, being new to the sport they thought all kites were invert easy, and it was purely down to their lack of skill that they were having a hard time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus1599968658 Posted February 4, 2008 Report Share Posted February 4, 2008 Hydrophobic - if it's stability and safety you are looking for you should go with the Atom. It's a simple kite, without the pulley bar nonsense of the Crossbows and it will boost your confidence no end. The Atom is well built too and you won't grow out of it in a hurry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westwood Posted February 4, 2008 Report Share Posted February 4, 2008 another vote for atoms out of those two. purely because it has a much more simple design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
si-fly Posted February 4, 2008 Report Share Posted February 4, 2008 I would go Atom or even Ion 1/2 as they are very friendly kites and do what you want. Just add a front line safety for solo landing. I learn t much faster when I changed from "C" kites as I just felt safe when things went wrong...just let go of the bar and the kite will depower and fly to the edge of the window. On my old "C" kites they would loop through the power zone when things went wrong!!..not much fun, and I had a couple of cracked ribs to show for it!! Si. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stueyboy Posted February 4, 2008 Report Share Posted February 4, 2008 Not got either kite but I know people with Atoms and they really like them. A mate has the 9m and it has a pretty broad and safe wind range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiteingcolin Posted February 4, 2008 Report Share Posted February 4, 2008 had the atom and used a ion 2, safe and easy to use, there are more user friendy kites out there but you sometimes pay with peformance the more you go down the safe kite route, one guy here has the new crossbow, and i have never seen a kite land nose down and relaunch again so quickly with one tug on a rear line, and he has been out in well overpowered conditions and comes back smiling as the kite is so gentle when he lets go of the bar in a wipe out situation, the kite school here uses core riot kites for their saftey value, but they are also superb all round high preformers, expensive in the uk, massive brand in germany Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw67 Posted February 4, 2008 Report Share Posted February 4, 2008 I have a turbo diesel 1 14m and TD2 9 and 11m and i have not had any problems with inverting but all my kites came with the bar update to stop inversions. It is only a stopperball to stop you pushing the bar too far away and stopped the inversions but means the kite does not depower 100% ( more like 90%) If you still have the kite you could try the bar mods and give it another go I think you need to treat the depower on bows as a safety feature rather than adding range Stephen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom W Posted February 4, 2008 Report Share Posted February 4, 2008 but more depower does add more high end Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isk57 Posted February 4, 2008 Report Share Posted February 4, 2008 hi there ive had a couple of different kites naish/north/flexifoil but the ones i've felt safe and confident with are the flexis i taught myself to kitesurf on c kites and moved on to a 9m atom ,so easy to fly loads of depower good feel n the bar ,i go out in 15mph to 40mph simple set up no pulleys which i heard the cabrina have i would recommed it i had a bad accident when learning with a c kite and the atom has built my confidence back up. i can understand not rushing out to buy one just go and try one see what feels best. pete ps .i recommend lessons for anyone who wants to take up kitesurfing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw67 Posted February 4, 2008 Report Share Posted February 4, 2008 slingshot say the wind range of my 11m is 13 to 25 mph and still say you need a 3 kite quiver. If you fly a bow kite out its windrange depowered you could risk an inversion so why do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spooky Posted February 4, 2008 Report Share Posted February 4, 2008 If you fly a bow kite out its windrange depowered you could risk an inversion so why do it. Because some still belive that bows have 100% de-power range lol Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Rides Posted February 4, 2008 Report Share Posted February 4, 2008 Didn't Slingshot offer a recall and bar upgrade to those T1's over here? They're on T 3's now aren't they? Haven't heard anything negative since the bar mod and the T2's are sound. But what about the Ion2's there are some good deals on them at the moment, S2AS were chinning them out over Xmas. But Best SLE around at the moment, no question if you've got the readies, The Rev, way out there ahead of the pack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hydrophobic Posted February 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2008 Wow what a response, thanks all! Sounds like I'm not the only one who had this problem, I hope the rest of you who've had similar experiences haven't been put off completely and are out there now on new kit. I did a retro bar mod according to the pack they sent me, but it didn't make a great deal of difference and, to be honest, the damage has been done with that one, can't handle the constant twitching and the dread as the leading edge began to fall towards me... I'm going to go with the atom. The most important thing to me right now is being confident flying - I'm in no way a beginner at this - but the TD has put me off and I really just want to get out on the water again. I taught myself on a blade III and mountainboard for several years and have a lot of time for Flexifoil kit so would like to stick with them, the glowing reviews here and on the beach have given me enough reason to go and try one out at least! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
si-fly Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 Thats a good decision to go Atom....What size are you getting? ....From my experience and a few others if your a competent kiter you will find the large size of the range slow and too heavily built for light wind. The atom /Ion 12m and smaller are great kites. Si. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitefloater Posted February 5, 2008 Report Share Posted February 5, 2008 the td was renound for inversions, theree was a bloke who got owned by his one at our local beach it just didnt stop inverting... modern kites have solved some of this problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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