Helmet or no Helmet... that is the question

[Crob203]

Just to clarify I always wear a lid when kiting, no matter what the wind. But on piste I just personally dont see the risk to myself. I could spend the entire time looking over my should waiting for a freak accident to occur but ive taken it upon myself to decide that for me that I dont need to wear a lid on piste, my choice, been doing it for 15 years with no problems.

 

@Zippy, if the transceiver kit is a good one, and every person on the back country trip has one aswell as a snow shovels and avalanche sticks you can find a person and dig them out in a matter of a few minutes. As part of ski tour leader training you have to do this and if you dont do it in time you can fail the 4 day course in a matter of seconds! True those recco devices are not actually all they are hyped up to be though.

 

Chris

[mikemj]

hi all, well i wear a helmet always, having come a croper one time and landed on my head first but the helmet saved me, and all i had was a good headache, hate to think what i would have been like without one, the helmet i wear now is a bit expensive thats the giro9, light cool on the head and does the job perfect,

[timmay]

The bern baker is cool, yeah the lack of vents mean it does get a little bit sweaty, but no worse than just wearing a beanie i reckon. the beanie part of the helmet is literally a clip in 'skirt' that attaches around the base of the padding (couple of poppers and some velcro).

 

The internal padding is really comfy, so much more than any other snow lids i tried when looking for one, and the 'gaps' do give a bit of breathability even though there are no vents. I certainly didn't find myself uncomfortably hot and wanting to take it off, infact the only reason i realied i was a bit sweaty was it was a little cold when i put it back on after stopping for lunch.

[vpas]

Admittedly the helmet wouldnt of made any difference, but the GPS the guy had so as to be able to be found in such a situation wasnt any good until he was nearly on top of him, and then he was only located with the use of a walking/ski pole (do you carry one of those instead of a helmet too?). And that was rescue team equipment!

 

Sorry mate but it looks like you know diddly squat about avalanche transceivers and how they work. There's no GPS functionality built into them, and even if there were, that's not going to work when it's under 6ft of refrozen snow.

 

They work by sending out a pulse on a set frequency, and all transceivers use the same frequency. By putting all the rescue team into receive mode, they can all listen out for the buried transmitting ones. Because they signal strength works on a flux line, you walk an arc to the nearest point (although some of the newer digi ones compensate for this). Once you are at the point of the strongest signal, you know you're in the region.

 

Of course, then you don't know how deep the person is, so you could still be 6ft out. Which is why the probes come out, these are not walking or ski poles, but specifically designed poles that are 2-2.5m long. With these you can pinpoint the victim, so you know where to start digging. The digging takes a long time because the snow will have heated up during the avalanche and then re-frozen as it settled. It's rock freaking hard.

 

If the rescue services are called, then it's for a body retrieval. They're not going to turn up in time to pull someone out alive.

 

Back to helmets: I've got a Boeri which is really comfortable, and has vents. My goggles match up to it perfectly, so I don't get a cold line across my forehead.

[Zippy]

OK OK OK. I dont want a fight or to upset people.

 

As for making certain people look ignorant, I am sorry to those that think this way, but I am not targeting any particular individual personally. I am merely commenting on the average "Joe" that thinks lids are for geeks etc. I know there are situations that 'the experienced' wont wear their lids in, but they are experienced enough to know the right time for this!

 

With regard to the "HELMET" thing, Someone in a position like mountain rescue etc, would be trained and fully capable of making a decision not to wear a lid dependant on their experience, and I can see why they would be useless here.

 

I can see where you guys are coming from in terms of getting your recievers when I look at the job you do with them. But in this forum I dont see many people that do the rescue kinda job, and when people ask about whether or not to wear a helmet, generally they are asking about wether to wear one whilst landboarding/buggying etc, and are not aware of the risks involved.

 

As for 'trying to impress with stories' I did no such thing. I simply saw a program a couple days ago and what I saw is what I wrote. OK so things may of gone 'tits-up', a bit more so than normal which is why it was on TV. But at the end of the day average 'Joe' would not of benefited from having a reciever.

 

Lets try and remember what this thread is about shall we and keep a focus on that. I dont wish to rile anybody up and appologise to those I have.

 

As for the 'To wear a lid or not' bit, Yes it is a good Idea to own one and wear it most all the time. However, depending on the experience of the rider and the activity involved, there can be times when you wouldnt want to wear helmet, and I understand these.

 

For example, if there was barely enough wind to pull the skin off a rice pudding I might not wear 1 either. But since I was dumped on my head whilst only 'launching' 1 day, its now a pre-programmed action that I put my lid on. Luckily I had my lid on at the time, but the headache resulting from it still lasted for over 2 weeks!

 

Lets put it like this, do those of you who choose not to wearing a lid at times actually own one? Chances are you do and there will be occasions you choose not to wear it. But you probably are wise enough to own one and know when you DO need to wear it.

 

I still stand by my comment that those who dont wear a lid or think they are "un-cool" whilst kiting (particularly on land) in general, are ignorant to the fact they save lives! Obviously there is room for the experienced to make their own decision on this though.

[spooky]

I say wear one

All the reasons posted above are good enough to say "Yes", the main reason that people say no is because it does not look cool

Well Helmets are alot more accepted at Ski resorts now a days, so no worries there.

 

Do not worry about getting a deadicated "snow" hlmet, the only difference with them tends to be that the have less vent holes in to stop snow entering/melting, and ear bits to keep them warm.

Both of which can be solved very easily, ie where a Buff/thin hat and just take helmt off and shake out if you crash etc.

 

So go for one that you can use for other activties, ie easier to get a summer hlmet and keep warm by adding, than to get a snow helmet and try and lose heat in the summer etc.

 

For me it si still a Protec helmet, preferabley the Wake versoin, as loads of protection, the 06+ version has better fitting, padding is water proof, plus comes with removeable ear bits that are to stop water pounding in undr waves, but also works very well at keeping them warm

 

Jon

[vpas]

Zippy: I totally agree - choosing not to wear a helmet because it doesn't look cool is just about the lamest reason. Unfortunately image is everything to these kids.

[cstowell]

Helmet, uncool? To make a statement like that you can't have been snowboarding in the last couple of years, SERIOUSLY!

 

All the cool kids have helmets. At Northstar I'd say 60% of skiers and 75% of snowboarders wear a helmet. Under 30 I'd say the figure is around 85%, 90+ during the week for both those who like to ski and those who ride.

 

Under 10, I can't recall a single kid who wasn't wearing one.

 

Now remember, Northstar - hanging out with the Scandi Mack Dawg boys - Jussi, Heikki, Eero and locals Todd Richards and Andy Finch... serious place to see and be seen. Fashion police will shout you down from the chair all the way through the park...

 

Helmets, uncool? This is the 21st century dude!

[cstowell]

And as for avalanches, you very definately need to read up some more. First thing is not getting your self into trouble in the first place. Try taking a course before you get that transceiver dude, it'll save your life - seriously.

 

It's not all fluffy stuff in an avalanche you know. Try a burly slab avalanche, 2 foot square blocks of ice falling around you, maybe bigger if you're man enough. Mmmm, your buddies transceiver ain't going to help you when your head is stoved in. Maybe a helmet would have been a good idea.

 

Perhaps you prefer something a little lower in the valley to catch you out? Throw in a few trees, rocks, blocks of ice, all tossed around in that fluffy stuff... you need everything that might help when you're out in the boonies, all by yourself. It's often the little things that make the difference between a body bag and a renewed respect for nature.

 

Look at the stats, have a (chilling) read of http://pistehors.com/ , not everyone dies of suffocation....

 

Don't believe me? Here's a challenge, show me a backcountry guide that doesn't wear a helmet (must be a living specimen please). I'll paypal you a pint if you can provide a video statement from a professional guide that prefers not to wear a helmet.

[Zippy]

Don't believe me? Here's a challenge, show me a backcountry guide that doesn't wear a helmet (must be a living specimen please). I'll paypal you a pint if you can provide a video statement from a professional guide that prefers not to wear a helmet.

 

Sure EU health and safety bureaucrats would soon have somat to say if ya do find one

[LincolnImp]

Have a Specialized bike/ skate helmet- would that do the job from protection point of view? Not too fussed about comfort at min (I say that now..) so would only get a snow kite specific one if did a bike helmet wasn't up to the job

[cstowell]

Yeah, the impact protection from a bike helmet is similar to a snowboard helmet, especially frontal impacts.

 

The difference is generally in that bike helmets are designed with as many vents as possible (while maintaining an acceptable level of protection) to keep the wearer as cool as possible. Snowboard helmets don't need to provide the same level of cooling, so tend to have fewer (or no) vents.

 

Protection to the lower skull/upper neck is minimal with bike helmets, however snowboard helmets provide additional protection here in case you are run into by another rider, or take a trip into a hard object backwards - which is kinda trickier to do on a bike.

 

With the bike helmet wear a bandana or thin beanie underneath, unless you want an ice cream headache everytime you pick up speed

[cstowell]

Oh, and to get back to the original topic of the thread, I was speaking to a rather attractive kiwi mountain safety chick this morning on the lift and thinking of this thread I asked about the types of injury they were getting at the moment, and are they affected by the wearing of helmets - we've had no snow for about 3 weeks now, temperature inversions, warm spring conditions in sunny areas, icy patches in the shade, patchy cover and natural obstacles in the trees.

 

She said that the majority of the snowboarding injuries she sees at the moment are from head impacts when someone slips out on a patch of ice and raps their head on the floor. She also said that very few of the people that they have to help down the mountain wear helmets. This proportion is unusual as most serious injuries they normally see are from tree impacts, but as the tree'd areas tend to kill the base of your board nobody is in there at the moment.

 

In the current conditions she said that the helmet wearers still do the same thing (slip or catch an edge, go down fast, smack their face/head) but are usually okay to pick themselves up and roll down to the base by themselves.

 

So yup, I stick to my view that one should always wear a helmet that offers appropiate impact protection for the activity.

 

Dude you pay a few hundred quid on board/boots/bindings/jacket/trousers/gloves/gadgets, pay several hundred quid to fly for a couple of hours to the snow, then pay a tidy sum for a lift pass, then dick around and catch an edge only to have to go back to you hotel room and lie there with a stinking headache.

 

Forgetting about it being your brain (and not being able to grow a new one back) for a moment. In simple economic terms you pay the following for a week away boarding; ~400 quid on flight/hotel, ~130 quid on lift pass, ~35 quid insurance. With general expenses on top that's nearly 600 quid for an average week (based on my experiences, getting good deals on nice accomodation). Not forgetting that you're limited to a week/2 weeks a year when you can ride if you're stuck in an office.

 

That's 100 quid a day to ride. Helmet costs 50 quid. That's a half a day's riding which seems like good insurance to me. I expect I lost a day and a half's riding from heel edge/head slams before I bought a helmet. That cost me 150 quids worth of riding. With hindsight I consider myself a muppet for not buying one for the first day I went riding.

 

It's worth every penny. Honestly. Buy one, wear it. If you have one then you need your head examining if you don't wear it.

[cstowell]

Its all done to personal preference I feel. Im happy in my ability to get out of someones way on the slopes even if they are completely out of control (ive done it plenty of times as an instructor!) I always recommend the kids wear helmets because they often dont know their limits and go crazy fast without know how to stop in time. However I let the adults choose for themselves. I dont think ive ever seen a head injury on the slopes ever, seen plenty off piste, in the trees and in the park. But never on the piste itself. Think it must have to do with the way people fall that they are always in a postion to break their fall by breaking a wrist/arm/leg first.

 

It's an older comment, but I have to disagree with this one. Look at the noobie slopes and the park on firmer days. Beginners catching heel edges and dude coming off boxes, rails and kickers landing backwards. Bruised bottoms if they're lucky, head slap if they were carrying speed.

 

When I'm riding with my nephew (we stick to blue slopes and park, as he's 7), I have plenty of time waiting around for him. It's surprising how many people do the head slap thing.

 

I can't say I ever really noticed before as I was too busy ragging it around....

[Mr. F]

Only a Flid don't wear a lid!

[Zippy]

@cstowell. Im glad you found out and posted what you did. I know that a wearing a helmet even on snow or water makes sense as well but had nothing to back it up really.

 

I bet the guy in this video

(taken from a diff thread) didnt think he would need a helmet when he went out on the water. But he sure was very lucky to of got away with this one.

 

Wonder if he'll wear a lid next time he tries somat so stoopid?

[mikemj]

yep that had to hurt, the funny thing is he seems so smug but deep down i think he knows he was very lucky to be standing and laughing about it all, the story could have been a lot different, if the head landed first.

[Zippy]

i think he knows he was very lucky to be standing and laughing about it all, the story could have been a lot different, if the head landed first.

 

Exactly!

 

It doesnt make me question if a lid Is a good idea thats for sure.

 

You only get one brain and you cant repair it. Look after it I say.

 

Nobody wants to spoon feed you the rest of your life!!

[snowey]

Got to admit I have never worn a helmet whilst snowboarding. Then again I haven't snowboarded for over 4 years. I ALWAYS wear a helmet while kiting no matter what the wind speed is.

 

The last time I went snowboarding I was out on my own. It must have been a sunny day cause I remeber I was quite hot. I took an off piste route down a small valley and must have slammed somehow. The next thing I know I am sitting in the snow thinking whoa my head hurts, and why am I so cold?

 

How long had I been lying in the snow? No Idea

Would anyone have found me? Wasn't a well used route so again no idea

Would a helmet have prevented the 3 day headache? Almost certainly Yes

 

I now know that I will always wear a helmet whether on or off piste.

[vpas]

All the cool kids have helmets. At Northstar I'd say 60% of skiers and 75% of snowboarders wear a helmet. Under 30 I'd say the figure is around 85%, 90+ during the week for both those who like to ski and those who ride.

 

There is still a huge difference between North America and Europe. For many years now, people in Canada and USA have been wearing helmets and the numbers are like you suggest in pretty much every place I've been. In Europe, it's now getting better, but for many years I was definitely in the minority. This year seems about 50-50, maybe a little less, depending where you are.

[Lolage]

Always wear a helmet, even on-piste you should wear one as you dont know whats coming round the courner! There can be a nasty crash and everything can go tits up.

The thing about looking cool, would you look cool sitting in a hospital bed with your head split open or wearing a helmet? Besides i thought i looked pretty cool with my helmet snowboarding! Looks good with goggles and a face mask. (And it keeps you nice and warm)

 

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f43/BenManDude/BenChilllin.jpg

 

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f43/BenManDude/P1011418.jpg

[PhAnToM90CF]

I would personally deffs wear a helmet, at the end of the day why not??, if u do and u stack it then u have protection if u don't wear one and have a stack then u might have issues, i always wear mine now what ever i do seeing as i got hit by a car on my bike and wouldn't be here if i didn't have it on so at the end of the day its up to you but if u dont u might regret it

Charles.

[Paul Burton]

if you are one of the people who dont wear a helmet

then you wont need a seat belt in your car either

and when you go on a plain you wont complain when you dont have an oxygen mask or life jacket WILL YOU ???

 

from burt

[becca_578]

No lid No ride!!!!!

[inter]

lol, dont get me started on life jackets on commercial passenger planes!