Why use a depowerable foil?

[rasga]

Sounds like a definite improvement on the original Sabre.

 

But, my query is this... why would anyone want a foil these days UNLESS you're snowkiting with it.

 

For snowkiting, I'd deffo consider a foil more user-friendly for ease of launch, landing, etc.

 

But, now the SLEs are out, and into their 2nd generation, making them more robust for land-use etc, why on earth would anyone want to stay in the dark ages of slow turns, limited lift and yonks of bridle for anything OTHER than snowkiting??

 

I think the 9M waroo is potentially one of the best buggy-jumping engines out there, that is MY honest opinion. Once the buggy jumpers cotton on to the speed of the mid-range SLEs, and the lift potential (along with the kitelooping speed) I can see a whole further revolution on our beaches.

 

And I'm not just talking Waroos, I'm sure those out on their 9M Novas, Atoms, Fuels etc will catch on sooner or later.

 

Other than for snowkiting, or perhaps if you go out kiting alone a lot, there is just no reason to have a slow turning, limited lift beast that gets heavy-as in rain or high humidity.

 

The ease of the SLE & safety set-ups also makes it perfect for beginners to learn on once they've mastered the basics of 4-line kiting.

 

Maybe I'm wrong, or on a different planet, but since you rarely see Chasta doing anything else other than snowkite, and Flexi's adds for the original Sabre were all snow-based, I just dont get why anyone these days is still buying these things.. especially at the price they RRP at

 

Am sure someone will enlighten me..

 

I'll deffo be giving an S2 a go next weekend, just to remind me how glad I am that SLEs were invented

 

Dee

http://community.flexifoil.com/showpost.php?p=1248155&postcount=49

[rasga]

For me, I like the fact that I can in 100% of the time launch or land on my own.

 

Yes you can solo launch the SLE/BOW etc but in some conditions i've had 'issues' perhaps its all technique,

 

Also the fact that even if i did get my locals helping . .what happenes when all the kite monkeys are flying their kite and i need a hand?

 

To me perhaps in the future but i've done fine on the foils, i was considering some form of blowupdoll. If i was nearer the coast then definately, but at the mo i think its all down to what you prefer, some people just feel more at hope with chikara!

 

PS. Of course i'm showing ignorance, forgive me for that.

 

As a sidenote, perhaps best if we don't pimp anyform of kite just talk about Foil Vs. SLE/BOW in here

[Bertie]

i dont because of a ban at my local site, other wise i probably would be

[RandomJon]

I've been looking at the debates on the different types of depowers for landboarding as I want to move to a depower as my next kite and there seems to be three distinct groups of boards,

 

those that love there foils: sabre, sabre3, frenzy etc

 

those that love there arcs: phantoms, venoms etc

 

those that love there inflatables: waroos, etc

 

so shall we start a debate on which is best?

[KermitStu]

I've been looking at the debates on the different types of depowers for landboarding as I want to move to a depower as my next kite and there seems to be three distinct groups of boards,

 

those that love there foils: sabre, sabre3, frenzy etc

 

those that love there arcs: phantoms, venoms etc

 

those that love there inflatables: waroos, etc

 

so shall we start a debate on which is best?

 

no:eek:

[KaptainKremmen]

Price will come into it and when on land foils are less dangerous to the public.

[kitegirl]

I've been looking at the debates on the different types of depowers for landboarding as I want to move to a depower as my next kite and there seems to be three distinct groups of boards,

 

those that love there foils: sabre, sabre3, frenzy etc

 

those that love there arcs: phantoms, venoms etc

 

those that love there inflatables: waroos, etc

 

so shall we start a debate on which is best?

 

I've progressed through all the above, and, personally feel it HAS been a progression.. moved with the times/developments of the sport.

 

Don't get me wrong, I see a place for all of the above, but wonder why the foils place would be anywhere other than on the snow.

 

@Rasga - and, in all honesty, what proportion of outings do you ever do entirely alone? SLE's are not C-kites, you let go of the bar and they just sit non-powered at the edge of the window on the beach.. whilst you then land your mates kite and then relaunch your own... easy.

 

Blades will ALWAYS be popular am sure, and for aerial rotations the handles aspect is less restrictive. Beyond this, depowerable foils, to my mind, are for snowkiting.

 

Am i wrong?

 

Dee

[lewiss]

i think that foils are for those that like launching and landing on their own very easily and quickly.

 

the arcs for those that usually fly with friends, or are ready to learn the technique. those that like the cross over abilities, and the gust munching.

 

lies are for those who like big air, but don't mind there poor gust ability.

 

just a quick little though.

lewis.

[mkratty]

use to fly frenzies and now fly bows .

 

i think 3 things swun me to bows

1 new safetys on them with nearly 100% depower was a big factor

2 speed of the kite so so easy to redirect compaired to foils

3 ability to fly on land a water ..and snow

[kitegirl]

Price will come into it

 

Yes, precisely my point, you can get a 12M SLE for miles less than a 10M'ish depowerable foil.

 

and when on land foils are less dangerous to the public.

 

What??? How do you work that one out?? A kite is as dangerous as the person who's ON it. What evidence have you to back up that remark?

[rasga]

Speed of the kite is one thing that i can see will tempt me over one day.

 

As for % on my own,

 

It can actually be about 20% of the time, even moreso in the summer sometimes where you're talking about at least 50%. Wish i was on the beach. .but alas nope inland.

 

My last session for example was a weekday afternoon, I got there and as i'm unpacking the 2 people there leave, on my own there for about 3 hours (still local walkers etc around but no kiters)

 

I've had the Phantoms so am familiar with the feeling of no power etc, one thing that i did manage to do once was hindenburg a BOW/SLE it dropped out the sky like a lead weight. . yeap thats my fault it was my first fly on it, but didn't like the fact i wasn't in control of this big thing falling to the ground.

 

PS. Well done Dee, i do love a nice debating thread, looking like we have a few viewers in here too!

[marman]

got to agree really... Once your past the basics... foils just lack performance

 

personal experiance.. the kites have more lift, hangtime and are in double time moving through the window! also great for crossing over land/water

 

you land an sle/bow and flip it over... that kite ISNT moving.. foils flap about everywhere and pull stakes out

[RandomJon]

I'd say i'm very tempted by the gustmunching qualities of arcs and i've heard theyve got nice floatly lift, but I do mostly fly alone, with my local group only flying once a week and not I can't rely on people being there when I setup/takedown and none of my other mates have yet been convinced to come kiting

[Bertie]

i must admit, the only inflatables i have flown were a north buster, north vegas and SSTD, and was slighlty underpowered on each, but i didnt feel anything more special compared to my phantom, they were very different, and very sudden power, but i didnt find anything extra special

[Tone]

im sure i will get into this thread tomorrow. right now, i can't be arsed.

 

hangtime better on a SLE than on a high performance foil? sure

[kiteflyer05]

nah, flysurfers 4 me all the way my 2 mates who i fly with r still blowing there inflatables up, when i am out on the water in a matter of minutes, tried leis, not 4 me...........................

[kitegirl]

Speed of the kite is one thing that i can see will tempt me over one day.

 

As for % on my own,

 

It can actually be about 20% of the time, even moreso in the summer sometimes where you're talking about at least 50%. Wish i was on the beach. .but alas nope inland.

 

So you learn to solo launch and land. You're not a newbie Ras, why make out like it would be hard.. it's a lot more simple than the twinskin launch - which you obviously appear to of mastered.

 

 

I've had the Phantoms so am familiar with the feeling of no power etc, one thing that i did manage to do once was hindenburg a BOW/SLE it dropped out the sky like a lead weight. . yeap thats my fault it was my first fly on it, but didn't like the fact i wasn't in control of this big thing falling to the ground.

 

You say ONCE. OK, so how many times did your Blades get a line-round, how many times did your twinskins bow-tie.. ??

 

If you have that issue, yank hard on the outside line and push the bar away, the kite repositions itself and voila, no crash. Yes, very occasionally I've screwed up, but no way near as many times as I used to on foils and twinskins.

 

PS. Well done Dee, i do love a nice debating thread, looking like we have a few viewers in here too!

 

Thanks And flipping heck, so we do!!

[lewiss]

yeah out of the foils i've flown, compeared to my arcs. the foils have had better float.

[rasga]

If only i wasn't a southerner i'll be at the beach wanting a lesson Dee

 

Twinskins bowtying, yeah always annoying every ktie has its weak points after all,

 

Also i may say some things to provoke. . . .always good to be the devils a'

 

Should be interesting to see your input Tone, Flysurfer perhaps

 

Perhaps i'll convince some company to let me try their kite and i'll comment on from starting to riding with a BOW/SLE, anyone want to send me a kite,

[lewiss]

oh yeah and foils kick any other type of kite's ass in light winds.

[Spook]

and when on land foils are less dangerous to the public.

 

What??? How do you work that one out?? A kite is as dangerous as the person who's ON it. What evidence have you to back up that remark?

 

 

In the hands of beginners any LEI or Bow kites are very heavy kites which are not as keen on staying in the air as a soft, light foil kite. This means they're going to crash to the ground much more often which causes all sorts of issues. Also try feeling the difference of someone hitting you with a foil kite against being hit by an inflatable.

 

I'm sorry but in my opinion unless the user is expert with their particular kite, then inflatables are dangerous on land, particularly with a beginner at the controls.

 

There have also been many calls to have them banned from our local beach.

[spooky]

What??? How do you work that one out?? A kite is as dangerous as the person who's ON it. What evidence have you to back up that remark?

Yes you are right, but I have been taken out on numerous occasions by LEI's and a couple of times by Bows.

There is a lot of force behind one of those and they will take you out quite comfortaly

May have just been the attitude of the flier's ie they were err younger/relitvly inexpereinced and had LEI's as a cheap why into de-power. But when they messed up they just tended to stand/lay there and watch their LEI fall out the sky sulking rather than attepting to regain control?

 

So ended up effecting others, as LEI's do not tend to fall down wind like a foil will?

 

Also some not all (but older and hence cheaper LEI's) do seem to like being flown powerd up, so and hence not great on land (for some people) as means once there is enough wind to keep the heavier kites in the air they are normally getting powerd up/over powered?

Hence room for error?

 

Bows/SLE obiousley are better in the above situation, but as more dynamic I have encounterd them being flown sort of inapropreatly for the inland sites and they do scare teh public more on crashing?

 

But hey each to their own

 

Fly safe, Jon

[Tone]

the problem with this topic title is that you are talking about foils in general and foils are not all the same. to compare a blade 4 against a frenzy against a Psycho3... well quite frankly you can't do it.

 

you claim that everything a foil does a SLE does better which in my opinion is utter drivvle (sp?)

 

i was out today, in winds from 35-45knots i was on a 7m foil other water users were on a 5 crossbow/switchblade a few crossbow 7m's and someone misusing a 12m but i don't think he was out when it was really silly. for starters i never really considered a foil as a really high wind kite, probably becuase i never got used to how damn fast they are.

 

relaunch - hands down a better on a closed cell foil like a FS kite. without a doubt the fastest relanch i have ever had was on a 10 and 7m pulse.

 

self launching - about the same as on a C kite, but i have yet to see a rider launch a SLE on their own without having to use it's massive depower.

 

Self landing - about the same as a C kite, SLE? once again, never seen it been done, but seen someone wait for 20miins to get landed.

 

Jumping - a good rider will go high on anything! use a 12m bow in 35knots and you are going to go very high and stay there a while. i jump quite well on my foils, go high enough to scare myself and dont have to ride maxed to the crackers to get that. i think most kites jump very well these days.

 

im sure all these arguments like "why do we not see anyone at the top of the PKRA on a foil" cos you don't.... FS have one very good rider who has just won the german nationals on a foil and i belive he placed well in a few PKRA events last year, but i dont really know all the details.

 

this is a pretty pointless post as it has been done to death so many times.

 

fly what works well for you.

 

just stay away from the best Waroo, its pants :P:P:P

 

p.s. i really can't type anymore i think, im too knackerd.

[Craig Sparkes]

PMSL! One of the best thread for a while!

 

Compared to Depowerable foils sle are quick. I OWN and FLY a 9 Ion alot and have buggied with it, buggy jumped but would never fully go over! They are no where near as good as blades. They require to much input on pulling in redirecting etc.. Handles are still the best way plus i would like to see how easily and saefly you can self launch and land ure SLE's in land.

 

Yes they do kite loop easily but compared to a blade i would never convert.

 

And to be honest, 10-15 set up and pack up comared to 3-5 mins. Sorry but for ease foils will always be better. Its easy for some indicual which seem to pimp certain brands saying its the best since slice bread etc.... but you dont really fly inland which is where most people fly foils. Its ok if you live near coast or only fly at coast but foils will not be beaten inland.

 

You also mention being robust etc.... so does this mean they crash heavily? Surely thats not a good thing to any kite?

 

Ok foils slop out, and do crash but they aint robust etc.... as they dont need to be but LEIS/SLES would need to be heavily inland if they keep crashing or should leaners not use this? O anotehr reason why someone might use a foil.

 

Somehow i think the arguement of the amazing kite is loosing here.

[mkratty]

i do know where you guys are coming from .leis bows or any other inflated object is gonna hurt if it hits you forcefully . but saying that ive only ever seen one kite hit someone and that was a foil .

 

it was a few yrs ago and a local kite shop owner was cheesed off with the amount of quads being driven on the beach (which were banned )he took him out with his kite

lets just say the quad owner was never seen on the beach again !!!!nasty

 

my point is that foils in the wrong (or right )hands can be dangerous as well .

 

imho the new safety systems that are available have cured a lot of issues with safety now it is the riders that need educating on how to use them .

 

how oftern do you just pull your safety to see if it works ??