Lofting

[Mr Jo Macdonald]

I came across Gixer's accident with pics and a vid

http://www.mr.nice.btinternet.co.uk/

http://www.mr.nice.btinternet.co.uk/gixersaccident.wmv

I don't know how much of this will apply to buggying and mtbording but I've been lofted twice kitesurfing and from the vid I'd say that's a pretty classic lofting, when it's strong and gusty you shoudl never park the kite overhead and if you do get lofted the first one is usally pretty tame (as you can see in the vid you landed it fine) but if you don't fly the kite like you would in a jump while you're in the air (recalling it to keep it flying and moving towards the edge of the window) and land the first loft with the kite still overhead, the lines go slack when you touch down and the kite drops back into the window, if you're still there waiting for it as soon as the wind blows the kite back enough for the lines to power the kite up it'll be deep in the middle of the power zone and you'll get a second lofting much more violent than the first with both a vertical and horrizontal direction and this second lofting is almost impossible to land soft.

 

To avoid lofting don't fly the kite at zenith or even pass it past zenith, I've seen a guy with a 3m kite get lofted 6m in gusts up to 40 knots.

If you do get lofted treat it like a jump recalling the kite in the air so you land with the kite flying towards the edge of the window. This also prevent you jumping under the kite and luffing it then dropping outta the sky.

As soon as you land the frst loft unhook, and dump the kite to the leash to avoid the second worse lofting.

 

Jo

[Mr Jo Macdonald]

There doesn't even have to be a lot of wind around on the ground for you to get lofted.

First time it happened to me was in a gusty 10-16 knots with a 16m lei, I passed the kite past zenith after launching (wrong, always launch the kite pointing towards the sea, keep it low and get in the water) and immediately got lofted, landed ok, looked up and got dragged up and horrizontally about 100m in a nanosecond, luckily in the shallows, same sort of loft as Gixer's. if you land with the kite still overhead the lines go slack and unless you ditch it you're ****ed.

The second loft was with a 12m foil in a ground windspeed of about 4/6 knots, I put 40m lines on her and launched to see if i could go for a spin. As soon as I flew the kite to zenith (wrong) i got lofted about 6m (according to the people still on the ground) but this time i recalled the kite, flew it to the edge of the window and as soon as I touched down I popped my shackle letting the kite depower on the leash.

The kite must have caught some wierd updraft of at least 15 knots I reckon because I wasn't running upwind or anything, there was no wind at ground level. Tree lines are especially bad for this apparently.

 

Bigger kites will loft you easier in less wind but smaller kites will be more violent and dump you easier too.

 

Anyway the point is that you never know what the wind is doing at the end of your lines.

If you want to kite in strong, gusty winds you should keep the kite away from zenith, some people call it the "Death Zone" because lofting has been the cause of many of the nasty and/or fatal accidents with traction kites.

You can also kill the power in a kite by walking, running or riding towards it taking the tension out of the lines, just the opposite as the way you give it more power with more line tension by riding upwind.

 

In strong, gusty stuff if your kite luffs and the lines go slack and it's anywhere high in the window depower the kite immediately, run towards it, let it go to the leash before it powers up again.

 

Anyone else??

 

Jo

[kam_kenneth]

yeah but not too strong. i was being dragged but wasnt lifted too high luckily. sounds pretty dangerous

[kk]

Good stuff there, Jo.

 

Having now watched Gixer's vid, even the second lofting didn't look too bad (landing notwithstanding, of course), so your advice to work with it as a jump, is very sensible.

 

If he'd done that, and landed it properly, he'd be fine now - as I say, it wasn't a particularly high lift, but with a horrible landing.

[kam_kenneth]

me and my mates thought the landing wasnt too bad. i mean he must have landed on his bones or something because the video quality wasnt the best.

[Mr Jo Macdonald]

Yep, you can get lofted much higher than that and travel a lot farther downwind too picking up a lot of speed which is why any obstacles downwind become deadly because while you're in the air you have very little control over where you're going or how hard you'll hit anything waiting for you.

 

In strong, gusty wind any size kite can fly you if you don't fly it and even in light wind you can catch a freak gust or an updraught.

The guy I saw getting lofted 6m with a 3m kite flew it to the edge while in the air, dropping it as soon as he touched down.

 

Many people are maybe thinking, how can you always keep the kite low if you're kiting on land? I don't know because I've just started getting into landboarding so people who are more in the know can maybe shed more light on avoiding lofting while kiting on land but when I'm on the water in gusty stuff sometimes i find it's better to fly the kite high across the window following the kite rather than over the top.

Also if you really have to pass the kite past zenith, fly it past slow while going with it to kill the line tension, the kite will be flying towards the other side of the window.

Maybe it would be good to start thinking like this: "I can park the kite at the edge and get away with it but I can't park it overhead because there it can kill me."

Standing with the kite overhead the kite is going nowhere and in the first gust you are going where the kite is pointing, upwards.

 

When getting on the water you launch the kite from the edge of the window pointing towards the sea, keep it low without ever flying it to zenith then bodydrag out a way if it's nukin so when you fly the kite up to start off even if it picks you out of the water you have a bit of water to get put down in again before the shore, same with coming back in, keep it low and bodydrag upwind back to the shore.

 

The best advice i've aver recieved was "always expect to get lofted".

Whenever I fly a traction kites I always think of 12 oclock as the "death zone" and do everything I can to keep it away from there, it's really the only place you should never park the kite.

 

If you do get lofted but recall the kite while in the air it'll most probably turn into an involontary jump with a soft landing, drop it after landing the first loft, end of story.

If you don't fly the kite while you're getting lofted and don't dump it as soon as you land you're most probably set for the second lofting which is worse and almost impossible to control.

This is the one that'll hurt.

 

Another thing you should try to avoid if you're lofted is to pull down on the bar which can be an instictive reaction but will jsut power the kite up more, don't know about handles.

 

It's all about line tension and flying the kite really.

 

It'd be great to hear some stuff from you guys who have been kiting on land and how you avoid lofting.

 

Jo

[Mal1599968600]

I find short drops can be the worst, they drasticaly reduce your reaction time, esp if you get pulled forward at a rate of knots as Gixer did. He was accelerating pretty hard as far as I can see.

[Deviant]

I got seriously lofted on my 13m guerilla the first time i flew it and it scared the s**t out of me, and the missus who was holding onto the handle on my harness. Luckily the guerilla has quite alot of float so the landing wasn`t so severe but i still got dragged 30m or so before i had chance to pull the emergency stop tag.

[dmb]

Very interesting thread Jo, but can you explain a bit more about what you mean when you say "recall" the kite ?

[Mr Jo Macdonald]

Sure Dmb, just like when doing a straight jump with the kite, send the kite back to zenith with you back hand, riding or running to one side upwind, power up kite, jump and recall the kite with front hand to bring the kite back overhead and slightly in front of you so it's flying the same way you are again and you don't jump under it.

If you don't recall the kite it will be going one way and you the other and you'll get wasted.

 

If you get lofted with the kite overhead flying the kite either way will work as you are only going up and downwind and neither right or left.

The important thing is that you don't land with it still overhead because if you do as soon as you touch down the lines go slack, the kite falls back in the window, powers up deep in the power zone and kicks your ass.

[Tone]

i have two thoughts on this.

 

firstly i have been lofted to over 10m on land. and have had plenty of 5+m lofts...the place i fly is gusty... im always flying knowing that at somepoint there will be a gust that i am going to have to deal with... luckly i am quite heavy so i have a little more gravity on my side than others..

 

the worst fall i ever had was by looking over my shoulder seeing the trees going mad and getting the kite down nice and low... on my left hand side if i rememeber correctly... i couldnt get the kite down in time so thought to ride it out.

 

the gust came through and i was ok...i was getting pulled sideways an awful lot but i was in control..... then there was a mighty gust and i was launched sideways at about 2m off the ground. i landed on my side on my hip...lost the feeling in it for nearly a week and my whole side went black...and then green to the ammusment of my missus.

 

it was the worst pain i have been in for a few years.!

 

if the kite had been above me i would have gone up an awful long way... may have goe higher than the biggest one... but im sure i would have come down softer too... not sure...

 

im not going to claim im an expert on this as i have far too many ideas on the matter to really know what is the safest thing to have done... of course land the kite would have been the preferable thing.... but i didnt have the time.

 

perhaps a better understanding of the weather would be a bonus... i know a fair bit about the weather from learning to sail to a good level and also from windsurifng... i can see a gust coming etc.. but not always.! heh

 

maybe i will start taking a camera with me more.....take photos of what the sky looks like as large gusts come through....start up a a data base.... sky conditions to type of gust...if it shears at all... if it lulls.... etc etc...

 

in the summer when you have no clouds and a nice easterly *common in england in the summer* i dont get lofted... no clouds to compress the wind.... its where my motto comes from.. "nothing can go wrong on a sunny day".

 

threre are so many things that affect the wind.... so many variables... how can you get your head round all of them.

 

?????

 

tis a hard one... not sure there is a deffinate solution.

 

Tony

[axelant]

Can I be really thick here and just check what you mean? By "lofted" you mean an involuntary lift when the kite is sitting at the zenith? This has happened to me a few times, but fortunately only a couple of feet each time. What you say is spot on though, each time the lines go slack and then the kite snaps back at you when it picks up.

 

So in simple terms you are saying when this happens the first time (if you ignore your main advice and dont park the kite at the zenith), steer the kite towards the edge of the window (to keep the power low) with the main intention being to keep tension on the lines so they don't slacken off?

 

Sorry if this is bringing the technical level down, but I want to make sure i really understand what you say because this is the most sense I have seen on the forums for ages

[Tone]

no worries mate!

 

yes yout right.

[Jonesing4Wind]

I live inland and always have to fly in gusty winds. I have been lofted 3 times, 2 with a 8.5 razor, and once with a 4.5 razor. I have been lucky, tho. For noobies, the most obvious place to park is the zenith. I still do it..... but after reading the advice on this forum, I will try to fight this instinct. My ? is, do sheetable kites(frenzy etc.) reduce the chance of lofting? Realistically, can you react fast enough to keep your feet on the ground during a gust? And if not, can you increase power to soften the landing?

[Jonesing4Wind]

sorry for the double post. When it is gusting a howler, my razors overfly, then fold and fall into the power zone(I only have this prob when static, not in a buggy). I dont want the kite to open that deep in the power with the wind at the rate it is, so as soon as this happens, I put both handles in one hand, and with the other grab the brake lines and pull down so as to apply more brakes than I could with just the handles. This is not glorious, but it does the trick. When in a buggy, to avoid OBEs, keep the kite low. When you feel a gust coming on, turn downwind. This will decrease the appearrant wind, and absorb the gust. same for a lull, turn upwind using your momentum to keep a constant pull on kite, this will keep you flying when the wind dies a few seconds. All you lucky ppl who get to fly in constant wind (at beach) dont need to bother with as much, but these tricks helped me. be safe!!

[Floatie]

Excellent thread MJM,Have enjoyed the reading here

The vid is pretty scary too,hope i never end up in that position,I'll keep my eyes open for that double powering up.

Very lucky not to have broken collarbone with that landing.

get well soon Gixer ya poor bugger

[Mr Jo Macdonald]

Hi guys,

Yep checking the weather and keeping the kite away from zenith in gusty stuff is a good idea, also using a smaller kite obviously.

Sometimes it's just better to say NO, and not even get a kite outta the bag.

In stormy winds the wind can be gusting and shifting, changing speed violently and direction a lot, say from SO to SE or even more so even just controlling a kite can be a challenge. it can be good practice flying the kite at the edge of the window in this sort of weather, you'll only get dragged on your heels really as long as you keep it away from zenith. In the gusts the kite will fly forwards then get left totally outside the new window in the lulls and collapse so you really have to fly it, doing a low sine at the edge (never high) pumping it a bit and even lopping it back to the new edge but fast enough not to get too far into the window obviously.

Also you can change your position to change the window, plant your heels in the gusts and walk upwind in the lulls. If the kite folds disastrously and rolls back into the window dump it to the leash immediately running towards it before it powers up. if you keep the tension out of the lines it's just a flapping rag not a power kite.

 

Lofting is an involontary lift, it's when the kite is high enough and catches a gust of wind powerfull enough to produce enough power to lift your weight off the ground. If the kite is depowered it'll be less likely to lift you and the loft will be lower and you'll land sooner but if the gust is big enough even a depowered kite will do the trick.

Keep it away from zenith, more than anything don't park it there in gusty stuff, if you do catch air recalling the kite, steering it to one side gets it away from zenith and the death zone and makes the kite fly so you should get a smoother flight and landing just like if you were jumping.

 

If you have the kite (any kite) parked at zenith and a big enough gust comes along you probably won't see it 20-30m above and you won't have the time to react until you're in the air. Almost everyone sez it was completely unexpected. It can be an instinctive reaction to grab the bar but this powers the kite up and you'll go much higher. If your landing too fast I supose you could power the kite up a bit but it's really so fast i would just concentrate on keeping the kite depowered, recalling it and landing as soft as possible, then ditching it to the leash or killing it with the brakes as soon as you touch down.

 

Jo

[schmik1599968584]

I agree .... Good thread!

 

This is from a previous post of mine but recounts one of my lofting experiences.

#################

 

Recently, while Kite ATBing the wind really picked up. I managed to stop and get off the board. Got the kite out to my right as far as possible. The wind then started gusting in that direction and some trees were getting closer and closer. So as gently as i dared i start to move the kite overhead so that I could get it to the left edge of the window... and of course .... WWWOOOOOOOSHHH. A big gust and i'm 10 feet up and travelling downwind. Landed on my feet, scudded a bit and ended up on my arse.,Wind dropped and i'm laying on the ground. Before i even had time to think "holy sh1t, i'm ok' ... WOOOOSHHHH. Another big gust. From laying down to being 10feet up in a flash. Again, I managed to glide down and land on my feet. Now i was a good 50-60 feet downwind of where i started. I managed to get back to my board and ride it (with the kite at the very edge) back to my bag. This ride ended with a 6 foot air and a landing with no board and some hard impact. I promptly put the kite away (4.9 blade).

##################

 

Now that i know a bit more I can see why i went up the second time.

 

Just a thought.... If the kite is already at the zenith does make your loft higher rather than further downwind. In the gixer vid you can see that on the second loft the kite is quite low in the window to start with, resulting in massive acceleration downwind.

 

In my above lofting experience I went quite high and travelled downwind but not as fast as in the vid; I actually had a graceful landing on the second loft.

 

schmik

[kam_kenneth]

i think you dont go as far downwind if its right up at the zenith. but i had my 7.8 and gust hit. the kite was say 80~85 degrees from the ground up, so it wasnt completely vertical. i floated downwind with the wind for about 20 30 yards. the gust then lifted me 5~6 feet and dumped me. the lines were *slack*

 

i let go of the kite.

 

i am still alive.

[kk]

Originally posted by Jonesing4Wind

My ? is, do sheetable kites(frenzy etc.) reduce the chance of lofting

To an extent, but not entirely.

 

You don't really "react" as such - it is an automatic, instinctive thing to let the bar (and therefore the power) find its own level in gusts, so to that extent, you have reasonable control.

 

But - obviously - if you find yourself overfaced and lofting even with the bar fully away from you, you're going to be in (self inflicted!) trouble.

 

This I know The Hard Way, having once been lofted so high by my 7.3 Frenzy that I was looking down on rooftops...

 

Not nice...

[kam_kenneth]

Originally posted by kk

looking down on rooftops...

 

Not nice...

 

LOL! really?

[kk]

Originally posted by kam_kenneth

LOL! really?

Yep, really!

 

>>seventh posting down

 

This was back in the days when I thought "top of the window = safe"...

[akamini]

OK, this thread is very interesting to me. Ive been flying a 4m blade all year, and am intending to take out my new 13m guerilla this weekend, if the wind is light. When im tired and want to take a break, i tend to sit the kite at the top, lean back in the harness and chat to other fliers. Ive noticed sometime while talking ive suddenly been pulled a few feet off the ground, but not thought much more of it. Is it a really bad idea to park your kite in this position? One of the selling points of the G-ARC is that they auto-zenith, so you can more or less let go of the bar, the kite will park overhead and you can make yourself a cup of tea. Should i put the kite to the side instead? Is this really just a problem in gusty winds?

[Deviant]

I don`t have a problem with mine at the zenith. I do notice a bit of pull every now and again but i`ve only experienced lofting when the kite is fully powered up and i fly it through the zenith. Just make sure if you are parking it up there fully DE-POWER it and you shouldn`t have too many problems. But saying that always be ready for anything.

[akamini]

Cheers mate, thats a bit more reassuring Im kind of hoping the GARC will be stable enough so even if i get lofted it wont severely overfly and luff and then drop into the power. You are right though, be ready for anything.... :eek: