What is the best UL stunt kite?

[matzelkite]

I've been flying for a few years and a have a few ul's, just thought I'd throw the topic up for discussion.

I have in my bag

Soul UL, JJF Matzel edition, Sano SSL+hybrid, Level one Extreme, Zephyr, Silver Fox 2.5 UL and Silver Fox 2.3 UL

Can anyone suggest another worthy kite to fly.

Keith

[Jason]

Tried the Double Zero?

[KaoS]

It REALLY depends on what you want a kite to be capable of in light or ultra light winds. If you just want something that will fly in lighter winds than everything else, and you can carve slow, graceful lines around the sky, the ProDancer SUL is the benchmark. If you want to trick, then it gets a bit more complicated.

I've bought (and made) many ultralight kites over the past few years - almost all of them have been sold on.

Widowmaker UL - excellent UL, but doesn't fly like the Widowmaker STD and doesn't rollup very easily. SOLD

Blue Moon Mantis UL - very good UL, doesn't fly as low as a Widowmaker UL. SOLD

Double Zero - indoor kite, not great outdoors. SOLD

Fearless SUL - not a SUL by any means. SOLD

HQ Shadow - tricks very easily (except one pop rollups), good pull on the lines, feels very solid in the air.(I should have kept mine.) SOLD

Acrobatx UL - inexpensive, but doesn't fly as low as the similar sized HQ SHadow. SOLD

I have kept a few...

ProDancer SUL - by far the kite that all others are measured against for being flyable in low wind.

Soul UL - quite trickable, but doesn't fly as low as some. I'll probably sell it at some point

Flown but not owned...

Talon UL - excellent UL,very trickable (not quite SUL)

Deep Space UL - as good as the Talon.

Quantum Pro SUL - pretty good kite, but not really a SUL

Nirvana WW - good UL, but flies differently to the Nirvana STD (not quite as trickable)

Jordan Millenium - excellent light wind, but "old school" - and expensive

Weldon Synchro - just like the Millenium

Kites I make...

Temptation UL - very trickable, good bottom end wind performance.

Gossamer UL - slightly lower bottom end than the Temptation, not quite as trickable, good ballet kite.

Zephyr, Silver Fox - not really UL. More accurately, just a Light.

Just my 2 cents worth...

Kevin

Willunga, S.A.

[DaveA]

Id have to agree whole heartedly with Kevin here.

Its very important to know what you want your kite to do in zero / almost zero winds.

If theres no wind and you want to trick just like a standard then be prepared to go home or fly a kite that wont really trick much, its a trade off.

I'll also add the Prism 4D to the list, fantastic low wind range while still retaining some tricks.

I just wish Prism would make a full size kite as the 4D is small and can be squirrelly.

[matzelkite]

Well Jason,Dave, Kevin,

Thanks for your reply's to my question -I am slowly understanding kite physic's and have discovered that per square meter of sail you have an inverse lift factor ie you need sail to create lift and the frame creates weight but also drag with that weight. So far Kevin you have contributed the most and I do appreciate your efforts but I have worked in SA and it's and cold windy place, I all most moved there. There are many kites to choose from I have 39 , I fly every week and at the moment and I am trying and keep up with the technology. At the moment if the wind goes low I grab either the JJF Matzel or the Aerostar Sano [two kites in one ] but If there is very little wind I grab my quantum pro ul because it has the largest sail to work with. The JJF matzel is probably one of the most amazing kites I have ever flown, I'm not that good yet but my record for rotating backspin's is 14 and the best fade I have held is over 6 minutes with the Sano. Both kites have the ability of control with ease so it isn't hard to work out that the size of kite really doesn't matter- both kites are smaller and faster with more control than the full size kites. I have ordered a custom Sano SSZ for christmas and yes jason I'll take the Excalibur for my birthday [ Feb 2011 ] I will start payments soon. So how does the double zero stack up with a comparison to the kites I have? I don't do competition's but I do appreciate other peoples opinions.

Cheers

Keith

Brisbane

[KaoS]

... So how does the double zero stack up with a comparison to the kites I have?

The Double Zero is primarily an indoor kite, and for that it is excellent. But remember that indoor kites are designed to be flown indoors, and were developed primarily by flyers who are not able to fly outdoors in winter.

Indoor kites don't usually transfer well to outdoor flight. They are designed to be VERY light, are usually smaller than outdoor kites and flown on fairly short lines (10 to 20 feet) in ZERO wind.

Ideally you fly an indoor kite in a big, high ceiling-ed stadium, where no-one else is moving or opening and closing doors. Efficient indoor sport kites will be significantly affected by the "wind" created by other people moving around in the same area of the stadium. But the shortness of the lines allows you to quickly compensate for this buffeting.

Typically when you fly outdoors there is some wind. Trouble is, the lighter the wind the more variable the wind direction. So you might be doing fine for a minute or so, but if you get a swirl of wind coming from another direction the kite will get blown away from where you are flying it. Very frustrating

A good UL has enough mass so that it's momentum allows the kite to ride through these swirls to a degree. Personally I doubt you would enjoy a Double Zero as much as the Q-Pro SUL

...another 2 cents worth

Kevin

Willunga, S.A.

[matzelkite]

Hi kevin,

I have a QP UL at the moment and I love it's precision so explain the sul- is it that good?

[KaoS]

Hi Keith

My bad! I thought I read you had the SUL. If my memory serves me correctly, the QPro UL is framed in 3PTs and the SUL is framed in 2PTs, so there's a little more weight in the UL.

I'm not saying the QPro SUL is THE kite to have. For example, it doesn't match the bottom end of a ProDancer SUL. But it does trick very competently in low winds and if you like the standard, you'll like the SUL.

What I was really saying was, you might be disappointed with a Double Zero if you buy it as an outdoor SUL, especially if you've already got a QPro SUL.

Indoor kites rarely do well as outdoor kites. That's part of the reason you can buy a Flying wings Airwave UL rated as 0 - 5 mph for outdoor flying, and an Airwave Zero for indoor flying.

Another example... Hunter Brown and Paul de Bakker produce the Reflection as an indoor kite, and the Echo as an indoor/outdoor kite. The Echo is a "heavy" indoor kite and doesn't perform as well indoors as the Reflection, but it is an excellent outdoor minimal wind kite

...must be up to about 6 cents by now

Kevin

Willunga, S.A.

[matzelkite]

Hi Kevin,

Thanks for info, It's all been good, I've been flying over the weekend and managed a 33 rotation backspin [ with a Level one Genisis EVO ] , now working on harder tricks. I appreciate your knowledge on indoor to outdoor kites. I actually forgot my airwave is a SUL and It's a fun kite but I have to reduce my inputs but my wife recorded me the other day flying in zero wind and I held a fade for about 30m but I had to keep the kite moving. Thank you for your info, still studying your initial response, some kites blow my budget but at the moment but I look at trying to get at least two new kites a year. I think your 6 cents is worth a lot more because I currently look at another 4 forums and you seem to be on the money with how this technology is going.

Cheers

Keith

Brisbane

[Hoons Unlimited]

I wish to put my 2 bobs in too and I have to thank Jason at Briskites for selling me his R-Sky Opium SUL a few years back..

It's taken me about 2 years to get the hang of it, freestyle kiting in general, and I love pulling this old girl out and flying her in the lightest wind. Especially when everyone elses is falling out of the sky.

I have on the odd occasion added a little tail weight, and it sits on its so nicely now.. and loves a fade or two...

[Guest]

I got my Sky Burner Pro Dancer in 1995 and it still flies fine. Indoors and outdoors. I don't use it much but when I get it out it always works well. I've seen a bunch over the years and flown a few but I am so glad I shelled out for the pro dancer. 16 years and still strong.