What kite decks?

[TTT]

Hi

 

I know there are trampa decks you can buy as deck only, I would like to know what other deck only's are available, where these can be obtained from and the pro's and con's of all of them.

 

Price is not an issue on this occasion.

 

I work for a company that has a huge carbon composite facility, that specialises in motor racing parts right through to Formula 1 and I would like to present the idea of producing decks to them as they have all the best equipment and craftsmen for this technology available including a number of autoclaves.

 

As much information as possible would be welcome so as to present this properly for it to move from an idea to a production reality.

 

Thanks

Tony

[Rossp]

design extreme make custom kite decks

racing finish make them

MBS make kite decks you can buy deck only but they arnt carbon fibre

[TTT]

Thanks Rossp

 

Do you have any website addresses for these?

 

Thanks

Tony

[Rossp]

http://www.designextreme.co.uk for d-ex custom decks

http://www.racingfinish.co.uk/index2.html for racing finish

and http://www.mbs.com for mbs

[Rossp]

http://www.design-extreme.co.uk/ got design extreme wrong sorry

[Tyler Durden]

Racing Finished have finished making dack (and a good job too!)

[TTT]

Thanks Rossp

 

I will look into these, can any one give me pro's and con's on each board and design and also highlight exactly what is important in the requirements of a good board.

[RB]

I dont think its that easy, what someone loves another may hate, I love tons of pop and flex in my deck, but others who have used my deck dont like that much! I have a trampa.... likewise others love carbon, but I dont... why? they dont tend to have as much bounce, on the trampa when I land I bob up and down about 5 times, on the Overbilt I had you hit the ground, then the deck levelled out with no bounce, but thats what many riders want, so its down to taste! imho any modern deck will be of high quality as its not really a market where you can get away with poor quality, Overbilt decks are no longer made but if you can get one they are very nice, also the above decks as described, but tbh you need to go and have a bounce on a few to see what you like!

[TTT]

Thanks RB

 

I'm looking to present to the company I work for another potential market place outside of motorsport, as we have all the high end equipment for composite production as well as skilled workforce and equipment for measuring pop and flex in the board and producing potentially extremely light weight and strong decks.

My interest is as I said earlier pro's and con's of the various types of boards.

As you say everyone has completely different needs and like different types of set-ups, I suppose initially I am doing a little market research on this and if it looks like we can offer something to the market then we will.

 

Of course also at some point we would need to get a few decent riders involved also. Love to test myself but recognise my limitations.

[RB]

well if you in more of a specialist market then Carbon is the way to go!, there are soo many makers of Maple decks the markets saturated, Carbon however is still an area for growth! as for cons with carbon, people dont really have any! ... well except the cost

[Mechhead]

i know it sounds stupid, but somtimes you want to get unskilled riders on your new prop.

 

skilled riders will be able to asses a products limits, and abilities much faster, and somtimes will not push prototypes that hard, or will not push the deck as hard as you like.

 

A total beginner may be better positioned to actually hard core the test, by not knowing how to get the best out of it, and not knowing exactly how to land really well to make sure the board does not get hammered....

 

also you might want to think about those riders who do not like to jump, but love to powerslide, as this puts lots of stress into the deck, and you dont want to send out a board that beginners will buy cos they think it will makethem better, and be getting snapped and damagedones back...

 

its basically down to makeing sure you cover the whole market, not just the pros, and good riders.

 

I take this view from the circus skills stuff i do, where like kiting you dont look after your gear, and you basically take stuff out and abuse it all thetime, dropping stuff, throwing it around and so on, so remeber to make sure you talk to some ppl who can only just ride a deck, so you get a full overview of your product......

 

laterdays

[CKB]

... I would like to know what other deck only's are available, where these can be obtained from and the pro's and con's of all of them.

Thanks

Tony

 

 

Just Google or Yahoo for "CKB landboard" or "D-EX Landboard"

 

 

http://hartland.org.uk/ckb/imagesLB7/LB8-LB7BlanksMed.jpg

£100 Black slightly more for the colours

 

Yo, want to make me an offer I can't refuse:D

[RedEddy]

i know it sounds stupid, but somtimes you want to get unskilled riders on your new prop.

 

A total beginner may be better positioned to actually hard core the test, by not knowing how to get the best out of it, and not knowing exactly how to land really well to make sure the board does not get hammered....

 

I think that is a sensible suggestion, Ive been lookin into the idea of a carbon deck simply to pimp my kitedeck but worried my lardy arse 17 stone will be too much for them, a carbon deck which is cheap and indestructable may be a good direction to go for beginners. There seem to be a few precision carbon decks out there aimed at experts so perhaps theres a niche here?

 

I would be happy to test some prototypes with myself and some likeminded (extremely awful) landboarders!

 

Good luck with the venture, it would be interesting to see what you come up with.

 

Theres another company that got missed out in the list, Howla (google them), they are new, but expensive and more for downhilling i think.

 

Russ

[Mechhead]

the POV i look at is that in a wind tunnel, or i=on a stress machine or what ever, you are testing it to breaking, but in the real world those limits can drop down, so an obejct that will break at a stress of 100, may break at a stress of 100 or 90 in the hands of an expert handling it well, but it might break at 50 for some one who is not as skilled

 

take watches, i am a SCUBA diver, and you see wrist watches that say, water proof to 100m. This is a static test, they are pressure tested to 100m, but they are not moving when these tests are done, and so when you move your watch at 30m (for example) the pressure acting on the watch can compremise it. Thats a difference of 70M!

 

you would be peed if you landed your deck, and it snapped if you have been told pro riders ride them all the time.......

 

 

PS i ride an mbs Core16 *drool* cos for me its solid, stable, work horse, can jump (rather well for me) and has some pop, but not to much, i will look at a carbon deck, when i think i can afford to spend 300 notes on deck, and would get my money back from it......

 

i know it sounds stupid, but somtimes you want to get unskilled riders on your new prop.

 

A total beginner may be better positioned to actually hard core the test, by not knowing how to get the best out of it, and not knowing exactly how to land really well to make sure the board does not get hammered....

 

I think that is a sensible suggestion, Ive been lookin into the idea of a carbon deck simply to pimp my kitedeck but worried my lardy arse 17 stone will be too much for them, a carbon deck which is cheap and indestructable may be a good direction to go for beginners. There seem to be a few precision carbon decks out there aimed at experts so perhaps theres a niche here?

 

I would be happy to test some prototypes with myself and some likeminded (extremely awful) landboarders!

 

Good luck with the venture, it would be interesting to see what you come up with.

 

Theres another company that got missed out in the list, Howla (google them), they are new, but expensive and more for downhilling i think.

 

Russ

[Mechhead]

any chance of a carbon long board btw?

[TTT]

Mechead

 

Appreciate your comments, take on board your thoughts about all riders of varying abilities, obviously with carbon only decks there are cost implications due to cost of carbon material and it is a fairly labor intensive product to work with.

Also as in motorsport there are the higher echolons with huge budgets and then there are those who we class as the grass roots, which the majority of us find ourselves in with a limited budget, if we can meet in a halfway place that would be ideal and give us a more marketable product hence my fishing expedition on here, or produce two tiers of product aimed at pro's and the rest of us no insult intended as I also am the rest of us.

[Mechhead]

would one possible solution to this budget problem be to come up with a core,

 

like the kite surf board, like the nobile 666 has a honeycomb core, and is not toatly CF, or like the core 16, where there is a core, and then a body wrapped round it

 

you would produce a core, with a CF body, and as long as you retain the flex and stability, you could have a sound product?

[spooky]

Hi, if you need testers, I knwo one or two people who can abuse a deck quite well to see how it performs lol

 

One bit of info, carbon is fantastic in some areas but not so in others. For example some people have made stupidly light decks by using a foam core. Now the foam has no structral strength that I know of, but is purely to act as a "moold" to wrap yoru carbon round. The strength will come from the "mono-couqe" (sp??) shape that is formed, just like these box ali MTB frames you get. Super strong, BUT super stiff

Now for light riders not so much of an issue as the do not tend to have much weight and hence force behind them on landing no real need for flex in the deck to absorb impacts.

 

However those "heavier" riders amoungts need some flex on lanings or we will shatter our knees

NB Some light riders prefer flex/pop in their decks but that is down to riding style/personnel preference, I'm on about the need for flex to prevent damage.

 

Now go the other way, some excelent boards that utilise flex and pop by "layering" or how the resin is used, but they do tend to be lighter, and for mas production cheaper.

 

So two different options to think about to achve simular goals

 

Oh yes did I mention I may know one or two people who coudl test deks quite effectivly??

 

Have fun, good luck, Jon

 

P.s remeber different trucks require different tip angles, unless on Revo's

[TTT]

Spooky thanks for your input also, I will pass on as much as I collect on here to the relevant people within my company who have the expertise to sift through what is being said and examine other boards commercially available to see whether they can move forward with board design.

Working with both Formula 1 and IRL we have quite a technical approach to design of stressed parts and also have our own load equipment for placing stress repeatedly on specific areas of a board.

My job will be to convince them this is a market for us to look at, the more information I have the more convincing my argument will be for them to consider this.

And of course they will need testing to destruction or quite effectively as you said.

[CKB]

would one possible solution to this budget problem be to come up with a core,

?

 

Very stiff and if you try to bottom them out they buckle.

My first proto was cored & failure was about 200 Kilo's

 

http://hartland.org.uk/ckb/imagesLBTest/SectionLow.jpg

 

Very light at 0.8 kilo but not much pop.

 

I make current ones solid Carbon/Kevlar.

But CKB LB10 is proto hybrid solid spine with

split cored area over foot area and integrated

truck hanger.

 

The axles are composite Ti with carbon.

The hubs are carbon/kevlar with a new type

of polymer bearing called Iglidur Z

 

All the details on my blog http://CustomKiteBoard.com

 

If you have a source of cheap high grade prepreg you may

be able to get the cost down a bit.

 

It takes me 3 days to do one board and most riders will want them

sub £100 or free.

How are you going to manage with those overheads unless you farm them out to China? Then how do you control quality? One piece of plastic backing left on the layup will ruin it.

[maxlevens]

are you still making boards CKB? i remember hearing a while back you were going to stop...? boards on the site look really nice - who gets them all...?

[Tyler Durden]

I love tons of pop..............

I have a trampa

 

.....erm, contridiction in terms!

[TTT]

Hi CKB

 

Yes I have to agree with you other than producing in China with unknown quality of product it is very difficult to produce sub £100 boards and as you say everyone wants something for nothing.

 

I do think an education of how these decks are produced is in order as you say it takes you 3 days to produce a single board, hardly a recipe for financial stability.

The more exotic the material the more costly the product, this leaves the question do people want quality and to pay a premium for the research and materials that go into this or should we stay with the current progression of boards and leave it there.

I took a brief look at your website and am quite impressed with the level of research that you have put into your boards.

Carbon is not cheap and increasingly more difficult to get hold of all our material currently is ordered with a Boeing P/O number as they have a monopoly on supplies for the airbus, this has also pushed up the cost on material.

There are rumours of carbon producing plants springing up in China but again what will the quality of there carbon be like.

If after careful research we cannot produce a financially viable deck then we will walk away from the idea and maybe revisit when costs come down.

I'd like to than everyone so far for giving there opinions, please keep them coming.

[wacky jacky]

trampa and my sponser have currenntely struck a deal and are producing "up4kiting decks" and they if you dont mind me saying are the absalute bolocs they are great:)

 

www.up4kiting.co.uk

[CKB]

are you still making boards CKB? i remember hearing a while back you were going to stop...? boards on the site look really nice .....

 

THX

 

Its very addictive, so yes, for the time being, until Xmas anyhow.

Just finished tooling for sk8, skim & wakestyle boards as well.

 

....who gets them all...?

I'd have to kill you if I told you;)

 

But clues on site, if you seek, you will find.