Help Needed GK Sonic or Crossbow. Head bashed in

[airhead7]

Been looking at bow kites for some time. It's down to the Crossbow and the GK Sonic. There ARE NO demo kites in the North East so I have no idea how they fly. I would class myself as an intermmediate kitesurfer. The boards I use are an Airush Xpact 122 and a Cyclone Odessey 146 and my weight is about 78kg. The kites I have are a North Rhino 12 metre 05, Flexifoil Strike 2, 15 metre and a Venom 13 metre for stupid winds. My idea was to get 2 bow kites to cover all wind ranges (12metre and 16 metre crossbow) but my head is bashed in with the choices out there. Gk Sonis or Crossbow

 

PLEASE HELP:confused:

[blade]

From what i have been reading the GK sonic wins hands down. Apparently the Crossbow has way to much bar pressure, this is what i have heard. howver, I havent flown either of these kites yet. I think the 8 and 14m Sonic would pretty much cover the whole windrange.

 

Hope this is any help

[jonwall]

crossbow has faced some construction problems in early batches leading to damage occuring in inversions, which don't happen with sonics anything like as often as with the xbow (to my knowledge). Another one to try would be the Ocean Rodeo One, which looks like it could be good (excellent bar system), I know they are going to be demoed around the country soon. Also, I think there could be some Airush Halo demos up at your end of the world, if I were you i'd post on the http://www.kiteboarder.co.uk forums and ask, because bows aren't for everyone, you may find you prefer the way C shapes fly.

[thetrash1]

Iv'e got a sonic and it is the nuts, I'd go for the 8-14 combo. Flying normal C kites afterward isn't much fun anymore!

[kirby]

i have crossbows and have flown a 11m sonic, the bar pressure on the xbow is not as bad as some people say i dont even notise it. i also havent had the kite break. when i flew the sonic i found that the bar pressure was almost too light and because i dont have long arms i found it hard to get the bar back. both kites flew nicely and were alot of fun to ride. but it is all down to personal prefferance

[airhead7]

So how do both kites handle in the gusts ?????. My preference for bar pressuse is medium/heavy. I have a flysurfer speed 10 metre and dislike lite bar pressure. I have set the speed to medium / heavy now

[Sean C]

i have crossbows and have flown a 11m sonic, the bar pressure on the xbow is not as bad as some people say i dont even notise it. i also havent had the kite break. when i flew the sonic i found that the bar pressure was almost too light and because i dont have long arms i found it hard to get the bar back. both kites flew nicely and were alot of fun to ride. but it is all down to personal prefferance

 

all good Sam, but you are sponsored by cabrinha

 

not sure what you mean about getting the bar back ? ... I think maybe when you tried the Sonic for 10 mins the stopper wasn't set up... but regardless, even when the bar is let go for full de-power it is only 110cm away from the c-loop so its very easy to recover.

 

... end of the day like you say, much is down to personal pref.

[Sean C]

So how do both kites handle in the gusts ?????. My preference for bar pressuse is medium/heavy. I have a flysurfer speed 10 metre and dislike lite bar pressure. I have set the speed to medium / heavy now

 

imo the Sonic is more stable and handles gusts better than any of the flatter full bridle bows... it doesn't do the nose-dive to invert thing.

 

However... if you want a heavy bar pressure and dislike a light bar pressure then the Sonic is not for you... though you can add a simple extra bridle line to the back line (from the front pigtail to make a V) ... this gives the Sonic more bar pressure.

[kiteingcolin]

I have been using takoon novas now for 3 months, but the last 3 times out I used my C kites to try and understand the major differences, last week I flew my 18 gaastra, and I was sent flying down the beach as it launched, as I sat on the sand wondering what had happened, I tried it again only this time with full depower, no problem this time, then I got in the water, started as normal and wallop I was pulled out of my straps and face planted, board back on flew out to sea hit a ramp and went up like a rocket, landed like a butterfly, I looped the kite spun back the bar and let out a mighty yeeeharrr as the next ramp approached,

Here is the difference!! the C kites are simply more dynamic, more direct ,they keep you focused, burn more energy, make you thirsty, more dangerous, risky as you run out of depower, very risky on self launches in strong gusty winds, make you smile more, get you excited, they let you see the grim reaper when you drop the kite out at sea in 16 mph winds, in gusty winds they make you hate the guys on bow kites, they are worth nowt when you want to sell them, shops will not take them in part ex, landing high jumps are predictable and soft, bar spins are fun, you can let go for a rest, they allow you to go fast but not as fast as bow kites, the list go on ,

 

So what do I prefer?

 

I am keeping my small 9mtr nova; the reasons are simple for going back to my larger C kites

 

they are more fun, (in normal winds) there is another reason that is peculiar to me and that is due to the two plates down each side of my lower leg and ankle, which was badly smashed on a sea wall 2 years ago 30 mph winds and gusting up to 48 mph, the hard landings from high jumps are hurting which makes me limp for a few days

The reason for keeping the little bow is because the only time I feel at risk is in silly strong winds (35 mph and over), which are always gusty, the bow is supremely safe, no risk from lofting, no death runs, the wind can increase to storm force 12 and I would still be safe, and I earn brownie points by letting Pauline have a go flying my nova in complete safety,

So that’s my decision made after another fun session on my bigger C kites today,

Which only leaves me to now advertise my 3 month old nova and then buy a Naish raven, the novas one pump design is simply superb, and I only want kites with this system,

 

After watching dangerours Dave on the beach to day who is trying to learn our sport on a 12 mtr rhino I am convinced all learners should use a kite like the nova, Dave shot his rhino through the back of the window and was about to be thrown down the beach when his chicken loop flew apart and saved him, (lucky Dave), he has been trying hard now for a year but is still not up on his board, he lacks confidence, and this is where the bow really helps

For sale one takoon nova 12 mtr £499,

[Howard Marks]

After watching dangerours Dave on the beach to day who is trying to learn our sport on a 12 mtr rhino I am convinced all learners should use a kite like the nova, Dave shot his rhino through the back of the window and was about to be thrown down the beach when his chicken loop flew apart and saved him, (lucky Dave), he has been trying hard now for a year but is still not up on his board, he lacks confidence, and this is where the bow really helps

For sale one takoon nova 12 mtr £499,

 

Not the Dangerous "to young boys" dave I hope! I thought he had left the kite scene.

[macca1599968585]

PM Bradders, has a sonic at Redcar, loves it, have been out with him and looks a good kite, bar is now sorted. Have not seen Cabs? a bit more £££ by accounts.

 

For our **** winds BOWs are good kites, make the gusts a bit more bareable.

[Sean C]

real nice words Colin... exciting just reading it.

 

its true to say that 'c' kites are generally more agressive... they feel sharper and pop more off flat water for example.

 

however you do write again as if its a simple, definative 'c' vs 'bows' comparison when, without wanting to state the obvious, you are really only talking about your experience with one 'bow' kite, the Nova ... not all 'bows' or 'flat' kites are the same ... just like not all 'c' kites are the same.

 

the thread question is about the crossbow and sonic of course... these are two quite different kites also.

 

performance wise, the Sonic is far more 'c' shaped for a start ... it also has a direct back line attachment ... other design elements apart, these two factors alone make the Sonic more 'dynamic', more 'direct', despite the lighter bar pressure. The 11m Sonic is much faster than the 12 Nova, though it has the same range... it also drives through turns and pulls out of loops more. Once you have it dialled it has that rip, that energy... it can certainly scare the hell out of me in 25k, easy let-go de-power or not.

 

On a std 'c' type bar its not a great deal different than some 'c' kites anyway.

 

At the same time it has all the obvious safety benefits of a bow kite that can also make it feel 'tame' an easy going for a beginner who may be lacking confidence.

 

you also mentioned 'bar spinning' being fun and 'letting go of the bar for a rest'... this is criticism that is often aimed at 'bows' yet with the Sonic its no problem, the stopper works a treat with the new insert and its still easy to punch out for the safety etc. I can spin the bar and let go to take a rest on my Sonic just like on a Spitfire or a Fuel etc.

 

Of course, I'm not to say that its the 'perfect kite' or that its for everyone... no one kite is. But it does have a lot going for it as have 'bow' kites in general imo but the Sonic is sufficiently different in many respects to a Nova as it is to a Crossbow etc. so as not to be necessarily painted with the same brush, as it all too often is on forum discussions.

 

 

@macca ... nice to hear bradders is loving the sonic fella, not spoke to him since he's had it. I'd be interested in your thoughts if you get a chance to ride it sometime.

 

 

in case anyone hasn't seen it, here a link to a Sonic vid from a crew in Mallorca... its all Sonic 11 but some of them are using it on a std 'c' bar, some aren't ... either way, it shows how it can rip enough to satisfy the thirst... http://www.bekite.it/download/SONIC2005v3d.wmv

[kevob]

ive got a sonic 11m crossbow12m and a 13 venom, and have used them all quite alot(i'm not giving comparisons after a 10 minute demo)

i can use all 3 in roughly the same wind, which will give you a bit of a comparison as you already have the venom 13

the crossbow IS heavey on your arms, it has a strange delay when you turn it due to the pullys, it has inverted a few times but not a problem to undo, although this usually happens when the wind is strong and gusty so not the best situation to be in, the jumps can be high and the depower is good, the stopper balls are too stiff when new but soon go slack then brake so are not alot of use

i nearly killed myself on mine when a leader line on the bar snapped and the kite looped out of control with me tangeled in the lines, i suppose this could happen with any kite but cabhrina didnt want to know or try to help after spending the best part of £1000 a month earlier so i will never buy any of their equipment again to be honest

 

the sonic is much nicer, it flys and turns fast, dosnt depower quite as fast as the crossbow but still fast enough, its very light on the bar - so much so that i always find im riding one handed and twisting round to the way im going on it, you can steer it one handed by just twisting your wrist,

the stopper works and the bar is simple, jumps can be high on this kite as ive seen people do them but ive not mastered them yet, and i find the power delivery very on off with both kites compared to the venom

i would go for the sonic out of the two because its so much nicer to fly and you will know you have got the help and support of the importers behind you if you need it

 

for gusty winds nothing will beat your venom

 

 

kev

 

EDIT: 12m crossbow for sale - had lots of repairs but flys as it should complete with new bar and lines £420 ono

[ShapeShifter]

before you judge a man walk a mile in his boots. By then who cares! you're a mile away and you've got his shoes!!

 

I like that alot Kev...!

[greenkite]

kevobs right!! the crossbow is made like a pile of poo and i got rid of mine before it came back to haunt me,i havent flown a sonic but ive heard many more positive reports about it and people seem to enjoy it more than the crossbow.and anyone who says the bar pressure isnt heavy on a crossbow are talking poop cause its really heavy.in this weather if you put gloves on youll have cramping hands within 45 mins as the bar is real thick aswell,couple this with the pressure and bang gos a good session.....and i work out and im definatly not a weaky..ive put up with it for 6 months ,but no more!!! it is like riding round unhooked all the time.

its not that much of an issue when you first get the kite but after time all its faults become glaringly obvious and lead to your sessions becoming less fun,which sucks!!

if i was going for another bow id def go for the sonic,it just looks like the better deal!

[kiteingcolin]

i have posted my nova position on a new thread with amendments as the note to correct (from sean c) was a valid point

[Sean C]

fair call Colin but I wasn't so much as making a note to correct... just putting some points and info across by way of the thread discussion.

 

your views and words are always welcome and respected of course.

[bradders]

Changed to an 11m Sonic recently, had it out a couple of times, and it does take a bit of getting used to, and you will have to adapt your style of riding to suit the kite. The kite is not for beginners, its got all the characteristics in the air of a high aspect kite and needs a bit of skill to keep it flying well in gusty winds. The bar pressure is extremely light and unless you've flown front line flying high aspect kites you might find it all a bit strange, saying that I've only flown it in very gusty winds. kite construction and design looks great, simple to set up allthough there is 7 struts to pump up. Generates a lot of power for an 11m and is probably equivalent to a 14m or 15m c kite bottom end, 8m or 9m c kite top end, which is a pretty good range for one kite say 12 knots to 30 knots. i've noticed I've started riding a lot more upright with the board flatter and my legs more bent in a squat position, this gives you about 30cm of depower on the bar which copes with any gust. riding like this I've noticed I'm riding loads faster, it is a seriously fast kite. Was leaning back and edging to hard at first which the kite doesn't like. Overall, wasn't love at first flight but after a couple of sessions I'm totally dialled into and riding well, I love the way you can fly into turns (carving the board ) and not worry about a gust hitting your kite and launching you. Onces dialled in it's a great throwaround kite which give a lot of confidence due to the depower abilities. A strange thing I've notice about the kite is the turning speed in light winds is very fast but it seems to slow down a bit when your well powered up. have been riding without the stopper ball, which means you cant let go of the bar, which takes a bit of getting used to, but the safety aspect is great, big gust sheet out kite depowers.Think the biggest issues for the bow kite is the self launch, but again just means forget old standards methods and adapting to new ideas. Have just bought a slightly bigger board to give me better bottom end as you dont need to edge with these kites so you can go up a board size (piled on a few pounds over christmas aswell). Hope this helps !!!

[airhead7]

Cheers every1

 

Think it's going to be a GK Sonic mayb a 14 metre:eek: