depower foil: Fraudster in Faversham thread

[The Geoff]

Other thread deleted. Come on folks, NO PERSONAL DATA.

 

Incidentally, if you check the first post in this thread you'll see we've got backups of deleted threads.

[Nick1599968727]

yes YOU do have backups but its nice to see ll the thread on a sale in its entirety, when i first joined a kite came up for sale for an amount, cant remember and 3 of us pounced asking for pics etc, 30 mins later the post had been eddited and £50 added to the price. Ive just read a forsale thread for a 10m access, asking for offers? he knows what he wants why not just say? we all know the next question will be how much do you want for it!

[zimmer]

Sometimes in life you are left with no option but to wrestle people the ground. If it does come to that, can you post pictures please? thanks.

[oOTomOo]

As regards bank a/c details we all pass around our bank details every day they are not private. Each time we fill out a direct debit or issue a cheque the whole world knows your details.

 

Direct debit forms go to companies who have data protection policies and use those details for the purpose which they were intended. and are not released for general consumption. Cheques are the same thing, they come under the data protection policy and the person you give a cheque to cannot legally disclose those details on it or use it for any other purpose than which it was intended.

 

These details should be kept VERY private. You also published the guys postcode and last name, so with the help of directory inquiries and a few phone calls it would be very easy to find out his house number. Hello is that...?

 

Instantly you've got enough info to take money out of his account.

 

Read the following article.

 

BBC NEWS | Entertainment | Clarkson stung after bank prank

 

What you did was very stupid and if I were the guy 'selling' you'd now have fuck all chance of getting anything from me. With the exception of a visit from the police.

[Andy C]

Silly thing to do, but aside from setting up a bogus direct debit to Diabetes UK, which would be refunded when it was realised not to be bona fide, sort code & a/c details are not particularly sensitive info, as previously mentioned they are printed on cheques. They don't allow access to someone's account or let you steal money off someone. Still a bit silly though.

 

But that aside, is this guy honest after all or has he in fact stolen money off someone? That is a much worse thing to do than bung up sone information on a forum, which let's face it, no-one is going to abuse really are they?

Edited March 10, 2010 by Andy C

[stranger]

I think the problem really stems from having to trust..

 

Trust here is a great thing ... I have bought and sold all based on trust... trust that the description is accurate and the item will be sent, picked up, money will be sent / deposited etc...

 

The issue is what to do when things go wrong...

 

No one really wants to use PayPal because of charges..

 

Bank transfers are a great way to send and receive but have massive issues in trying to recover...

 

I dont have an answer for what has happened and I really feel for you and the frustration you must have...and in your place I don't really know what I would have done...probably driven down to pickup my kite or my money...

 

Is there a way to make the buying and selling on here better and safer?

 

Ranking system (ebay)

Deposit Based system?

Recommended based system?

 

Use a check..... takes to long

 

there must be a way...

Edited March 10, 2010 by stranger

[Ally]

Back in the days before the interweb there was a thing called Mail Order. People would write down what they wanted on paper (a "Letter") and also write some money on another bit of paper (a "Cheque"), and give it to a nice man with a red van. He would drive the van to the shop and give them the "Letter" and "Cheque". The shop would then give another man the goods and he would take them back to the first person.

You're fooling no-one Geoff. In your day it wasn't paper, it was slate.

[oOTomOo]

Silly thing to do, but aside from setting up a bogus direct debit to Diabetes UK, which would be refunded when it was realised not to be bona fide, sort code & a/c details are not particularly sensitive info, as previously mentioned they are printed on cheques. They don't allow access to someone's account or let you steal money off someone.

 

How very VERY naive. I've worked in banks and been heavily involved in commercial payment systems. You can do A LOT more than make a charitable donation.

 

It could have been sent to a bank account set up under a stolen identity, which could then be withdrawn as cash, or could have gone from there to an off-shore account.

This is all assuming that these people check their statements and noticed that there was a transaction there that shouldn't be there.

[Andy C]

If it is such sensitive information, why print it on cheques? That seems very foolish since they are handed out in a wide variety of situations. If it's such a security issue then banks should think of a better system for setting up dd's etc, and should avoid divulging full details on the front of our cheques. In the 'old days' you always had to sign consent to set a dd up, which always seemed more sensible to me.

 

And by the way I didn't infer that I would be silly or malicious enough to do such a thing. I would try to sort something like that out myself without resorting to public means like a forum.

 

We do seem to be getting more on our high horses about that than about the possibility of someone deliberately stealing money off someone though.

[SIMON_N]

WE seem to have lost track here. Okay we can all accet putting bank details up is not a good idea, fair enough, the guy was pretty pissed off and probably not thinking straight. Main issue is still that no matter how much we all trust each other someone can easily come on here and steal your money, end of story.

 

I wouldnt like to lose my confidence with this site as had many great transactions wnd hopefully will have more in the future. Something has to be done to make transactions safer, if that is pay pal and we have to pay the fees to make sure not getting ripped off then maybe it is worth it. Bank transactions are great but no come back if goods dont arrive.

 

Does anyone have any ideas how we can stop this happening again, surrely that is teh most important thing now.

[oOTomOo]

If it is such sensitive information, why print it on cheques?

 

In the 'old days' you always had to sign consent to set a dd up, which always seemed more sensible to me.

 

In itself it is not very sensitive, you also 'need' the postcode that the account is registered at. Which was also kindly published.

 

You think signatures are checked?

[Jack1988]

I feel for ya Luke and i totally understand why you done that. I would have been Fuming also.

 

Get the Police involved ASAP if you are really sure youve been ripped off.

 

Some proper scum in this world that need to be exposed imo. Dont let him get away with it.

[Bigbud]

I'm not 100% about paypal thou, I've read in terms and conditions that you are not covered if the transaction was not listed on a business's website. So you might as well be putting you money into there account or paying by cheque. You have no cover and if they do one with your money its very difficult to get it back.

 

 

Luke shoot me a pm if you want info

 

Jim

Edited March 11, 2010 by Bigbud

[Andy C]

I agree more protection (if possible) would be good. Don't think paypal is much cop though. I got done, luckily for a small amount of money, by a dodgy website, Paypal ruled in my favour but I never received any money back, even though they admitted that the website was fraudulent. So in theory I should have been protected, but it didn't actually do me any good!

 

So Bigbud, you never got your kite or your money back either??

[Bigbud]

So Bigbud, you never got your kite or your money back either??

 

Can't comment mate

[oOTomOo]

Can't comment mate

 

Can you comment on why you can't comment?

[Bigbud]

As it wouldn't be in my interests.

[Crob203]

Luke, you have to get to the Citizens Advice Bureau who will help you setup a small claim in the small claims court. He has effectively breached contract and owes you either the product or the money back. Dont just give up on this because you didn't use paypal and dont have buyer protection in that sense; every transaction you make has buyer protection under UK law! I certainly wouldn't rest on my laurels!

[spiky_dave]

Hmmmm, i've wondered this before - what we really need is some form of kite escrow service. I'm sure it could be made to work if someone had the time, i guess the question is would people be willing to pay enough to make it viable?

[Oraclejoker]

is it a case of having a trustworthy middleman to mediate the transaction. somebody you both agree on. perhaps it could be a moderator or admin from the site.

 

Person A sends the cheque to the middleman, person B sends the kite to the middleman.Once the middleman has both the cheque and the kite he sends them on.

 

the cost of the extra set of postage is covered within the transaction.

so for the benefit of added security you pay double the postage.

 

ie, the person buying the kite writes 2 cheques: one for the kite and the postage from person B to the middleman this is written for person B. the second cheque is made out to the middleman and covers the cost of the postage of the kite from the middleman to person A and the cost of sending the first cheque to person B from the middleman.

 

to speed up the process you could have person A sending the money as a money transfer to the middleman who waits for the kite to arrive then transfers the money into person Bs account and posts the kite on.

[Andy C]

Sounds horribly complicated. I would have thought a simple feedback system a la eBay would be easier and might work.

[heres jonny]

the middle man could then delay postage/delivery of money on a few items until hes got a fair few undred quid and loads of goods, then do a runner

 

but obviously we'd have details of said middle man...so it sounds safe, but also sounds risky at the same time..

 

 

has the original guy who got ripped off actually done anything about it? contacted police? or got his kite?

[heres jonny]

Sounds horribly complicated. I would have thought a simple feedback system a la eBay would be easier and might work.

 

actually thats a very good idea...each member whos selling stuff has feedback from sales thing, and number of sales and all that ebay malarky

[Andy C]

In principle simple: both buyer and seller required to leave feedback. In practice I imagine it isn't that simple, software would be required which obligates buyer and seller to register each item, the sale etc. I'm guessing given this is a predominantly free service that spending lot of time & money installing new software and policing it would beyond what this forum can easily do whilst remaining free to all.

[parksy]

Like the good guys to deal with thread? Can't we start a kitecrowd mafia style thread, where, if someone turns one of us over, the perpetrator finds a horses head on their pillow, and if they are persistent offenders, they wake up with the fishes.