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Who has the fastest buggy time


BGKD

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The current 72mph set by Luc Stanic was set in a standard Libre Full Race.

He makes his own mag rims and still uses wheel barrow size tyres (ones with a slick/bald profile though).

The SA boys and Dukey have proved that 100kph is possible on a normal buggy, you just need miles of nice flat space.

On my 98.5 run the buggy felt, flat, smooth, and the rear only broke out a little bit when I loaded the kite up too much (love de-power:D ).

This was corrected with a reduction of power, and put me back straight and true on my course.

I think I could have gone quicker if I could have had the wind another 5-10 degrees more onshore.

I was not being pulled side ways nor affected by apparent wind from the kite.

The boys who did the high speed runs in the US claim that you first get the apparent wind happening and you hold this and slowly bear down wind, all the time the speed should be increasing.

Theory says you should be hitting 3 times wind speed at a 5 degree angle off true down wind.

All I need is a dry lake Gairdner, some good winds, and a bunch of other kiters to help party once I (or we?) break the record.

If ACT (Gary) does make his super fast buggy, the best place to test it is at Gairdner.

I would be happy for him to claim the record, infact if the buggy is made just for this perpose, then I can't see why, given the right conditions, he could not be hitting 140kph.

If 72mph is done in a standard buggy, what is the next step in a custom made speed buggy????

Why not take the 100 to the next step????

100mph is 160.934kph??????

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Obviously you have never been to a real salt lake sinbad.

If you ask me, there is definately no way I'd go to a dry mud lake if I had the choice of Gairdner instead.

Just picture a tarmac, 15km X 30km only white instead of black.......:party::crazypilot::yahoo::crazypilot:

What more can I say ?

Yep Dukey, you must have been quite in Adelaide, now i know what they said about you was right, your CRAZY:goofy::goofy::goofy::D:D

I agree Gairdner is the way to go, more wind and larger playground, Kingston was just a bit closer to the easterners thats all.

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Guys a couple of things.

Yep some solid action on the salt, given the time and being ready, would be great.

Also unlike anything else I have been fast on, what is really needed for going real quick in a bug is real quick wind. No amount of trick kit or the worlds fastest kite is going to get anyone anywhere with the wind.

So the million dollar question is how fast is the wind at the salt lake and when.

For me speeds of 240 kph this close to the ground were normal, (but with an engine)so that isn't so much of an issue, but without wind none of us go anywhere.

I would also add that I am amazed that no no has got really hurt doing this yet. Plastic rims, tires rated for 20 kph (at best) and I am sure if anyone talked to a buggy manufacturer, that the buggies were not suppose to target a high speed market, adds up (at least to me anyway) that someone will be get hurt doing high speeds in buggies from a "conventional" design of mass market.

Adds up really to me saying guys be careful. Someone is going to find the limits one day on this conventional equipment and it won't b pretty.

Cheers

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Can't find the edit button to change the first reply sorry.

BTW I think that the best place to really "go Fast" is Foxton beach in New Zealand. Having lived in the area for ages, but wasn't kiting back then, imagine about 40 to 50kms of hard packed dark sand about 200 meters wide with the wind roaring in from the Ocean, nice and smooth. No people (on the windy days) and hopefully no pesky dudes telling me what I can and can't do.

Any Kiwis like to point out anywhere better, in that area?

And yes I do have to go back there in December for personal reasons and yes might take my bug and kites. Anywhere from Paraparaumu Beach, Otaki, and right up beyond Foxton beach were my thoughts, seeming I have to be in Wellington.

Cheers

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thought id put in my two pence worth, ive hit 70 klm hr although i dont have the proof to back it up i could only record it on my bike computer, which i callibrated myself, i dont think im too far out. however thats still the quickest in w.a.

this was acheived on my own custom built bug(similar to libre race bug) and with a 2.8 libre bora kite, in pretty hairy winds i might add.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Wear a harness, it hides the stains:D

I know that when I do go for high speeds, I have a kite I can kill in a flash, depower it, and have lots of room on the beach.

Confidence is the biggest asset of any person, just take it slowly and let the speeds build.

18 months ago my top was only 76kph.

Two super speed sessions later (almost a year apart), 93.8kph then 98.5kph.

Still aiming for the mythical 100kph barrier!!!

Supose the next barrier wil be the 100mph barrier!! (160kph)

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No, no weights used, I only weigh 65kg.

Libre Full Race, std barrows.

Kite: PL Phantom 6m, yes on a bar.

Winds were 45knots.

Looking at getting the newer PL Scorpion, it is suppost to be even quicker through the air, and point higher, should mean more speed:D

Getting the "TET" mod done as well to the kite, and can't decide about getting the next size up as well at the same time, so a 7m and ??? the 10m??

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I put my blade 6.6 up yesterday to see what it would feel like , fantastic for jumping but too scary for doing a speed run. That's why i went down to the 3m. I can't imagine trying to tame a 6m kite in 40 + knots, as you say confidence plays a big part , but this sport has taught me one thing expect the unexpected. Went too high on the beach and got bogged in the soft stuff threw the kite around to pull me out , powered up, buggy stayed put, me ejected some 5 m clipping the left footpeg on the way . Now have a nice V shape on top of foot ( no shoes, this is queensland ) Anyway back on the subject how do i depower my bigger kites so that i am in control but i get more speed ?

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You can't depower your kites if they arn't designed for it in the first place.

My Phantom, is an ARC, the smallest one in the range.

The kite projects an area of 3.8m, but I find the kite equivlent in power to a 3m fixed bridled kite.

It is depowerable, so it will go down in power to about a fixed bridled kite of 1.5m.

So with this range, I can use it in any winds for a 3m kite upwards.

It is 6m in size so it is quite slow against a true 3m kite, but the 6m is less likely to dance around the sky or snap turn if you take your eye off it for a second as a small kite can do in very high winds (30+ knots).

This is my first depowerable kite, I was a bit unsure about getting it, and using the bar, but now looking to expand my quiver to a newer ARC.

Am I happy with it?? You bet!:D

As for the wind, cross onshore was the wind dirrection (more cross than on).

Not quite to the extent where I had to tack up the beach, but close.

Just aim the buggy down the beach for the speed run, and see if you can hold on.

You are aiming for the back end to be not quite letting go, if it is, then your scrubbing speed. If you have a smaller kite move to it, repeat process.

The only way to use a big kite in strong winds is to have a huge area to play with.

Thats the reason why several of us are looking at going to Lake Gairdner (dry salt lake) in SA next year.

The SA boys have gone over 100kph, with out even really trying.

When you can go in any dirrection for km's, if the back steps out, just aim a little more down wind and watch the speed pick up.

Theory says 3x wind speed is possible.

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Haven't read all the times but have been at high speeds, probably over 100 a few times but hard to do,

have done 92-96kmh runs with burst of speed after that, but that was calibrated ( with gps) bike speedo that crapped out from salt water enema shortley there after.

Have done +55mph on a dry lake bed-outrun the pace car

These runs were done with big kites on a broad reach ie overpowered with a lot of runoff area and mostly on 2 wheels, Nigel's finesse is probably a better idea

My question is, does my bfi (brute force and ingnorance) approach, rather than the finesse of Nigel with a smaller efficient kite win ?

Big kites can go quite fast and superior firepower has often conquered, will report back soon, I have a new weapon that may propel me to great heights in these stakes.

luv

istt

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In theroy...Big kites have a big pull, but once you get a small bit of apparent wind on the kites airfoil it starts getting bigger, soon you can't hold it. Smaller kites should be faster as there is less material and lines are normally thinner, ie. less drag. Also with a small kite, they make a small pull to start with, but can take much more apparent wind, thus should give you the same pull at a higher speed. I wonder how much the kite companys have experimented with airfoils..That could make a hudge difference.

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Smaller kites make more apparent wind than bigger kites.

But don't know if a bigger kite will be quicker than a smaller one given a huge playground with no one in the way.

My speed run was down the beach so I had to follow the beach, hence the reason for getting the right size of kite for the run.

If you do get to a big playground and can go in any dirrection, then when the backend steps out, you just steer more down wind.

Another idea is the line length, the long lines create drag, less for shorter lines.

You can move up one size in the kite range by halfing you line length (handy if your over powered, just use shorter lines).

This results in much the same top end power, but gives you much more control about placement of the kite, and the speed you can move the kite from one side of the window to the other.

You can also kill apparent wind easier with a kite on shorter lines.

The only draw back, is it takes a bit longer to get upto speed, your sweeps throught the window are not as big nor have the susstained power.

The Truth said: "My question is, does my bfi (brute force and ingnorance) approach, rather than the finesse of Nigel with a smaller efficient kite win ?"

Don't know!

But love to try it if I get to Gairdner!!

The Truth again: "Big kites can go quite fast and superior firepower has often conquered, will report back soon, I have a new weapon that may propel me to great heights in these stakes"

Come on, spill the beans!!!

Framed kite or soft cell?

Hybrid??!!

Do you need a pump?:D

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in what thoery?

most aerodynamic theory states the bigger wing is more efficient and faster, sure small kites seem fast but i have many times flown a 2.5 and 10 m kite in paralell conditions and the larger one does indeed seem to fly in straght passes faster naturally. The smaller kite buy the scale of things seems to to fly fast but back to back testing has revealed the oppisite. This doesn't address the Apparent wind situation but that is a different kettle of lesbians, any kite used will suffer from apparent wind and this effect affects both wings, maybe in the same way, there are 2 styles of speed sailing attempts- bathtube and spinaker in 50 knots or skip on top with fulcrum, foils and balance that can yield results in lower cleaner wind - both styles have yielded results which are only maybe 2 knots apart.

For the background the kite that was propeling me on the 93-96 km runs was a 10 m quad foil in 20-25 knots etimate maybe more.

My style was drop the kite and hang the f+@k on, was having to exert a large amount of downforce on my lines just to keep from flipping and the upwind buggy wheel was just idling, touching down every now and then to keep up appearances.

As stated before think the smaller kite approach is safer, as the buggy was more like a hovercraft at times, had a very large runnoff area so was medium safe but high in the pucker factor all the same.

I still have a sneaking suspicion that a bigger kite may have potential for higher speed as long as direction is not specific.

luv

istt

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Think clay base is faster than the salt ,and lake Gilles beside Gairdner has always been hailed as faster by the landyacht guys. My runs were on Lower Light beach which has a similar feel of asphelt when dragged accross it.

As to the beans I think as the immortal words of Slim in Blazing Saddles, "i think you boys have had enough beans" trying to figuire out which of the 8 ozone styles would suit my purpose best?.

luv

istt

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In my thoughts...Is effency really wanted?

I think you might be right that big wings are more effeicent, but it that what you need? The more efficent a kite, the slower the wind ( direct or apparent) needed for decent pull. A kite that is less efficent would need more speed to make the same pull. Where can you get that windspeed? Apparent wind from movement ( ie, buggy speed). What is holding you back from going faster? The buggy lifting or slideing. If a efficent kite makes lotsa pull from little wind, the less time you have before the buggy slips/lifts. It kinda makes sence..I think?

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