big-jon Posted June 28, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2004 Jon, If the race were to become a MW2 replacement, would that cause problems, eg no's of spectators, people wanting to buggy, board and/or fly kites before/after the race??? Also people getting permits just for the weekend?? Mike I cant really see it becoming a replacement for MW2. I have commented that if people wanted to do something instead they could think about entering the race. As you say the amount of people wanting to buggy could be a problem as the beach will only really be open to competitors on the race day. If the race just happens on the Saturday then the beach will be open to all on the Sunday but we can't guarentee this. As for static flyers and visitors that would not be a problem as the beach is huge ! Permits would not be a problem as the club will soon be able to issue them and also we will be able to issue day permits and plates. As for changing dates can I just confirm that they are not changing due to accomodation deal with Pontins and a little thing called the tide !! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaRRy Posted June 29, 2004 Report Share Posted June 29, 2004 IAs for changing dates can I just confirm that they are not changing due to accomodation deal with Pontins and a little thing called the tide !! LOL Boy are you in trouble at Hoylake when I next se ya Wirral Sand Yacht Club Class 8 Sailing Master Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big-jon Posted June 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2004 ooops sorry Gary !!!! Never upset the class 8 master !!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big-jon Posted June 30, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2004 bumped again to keep it in view Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king_of_the_sky Posted June 30, 2004 Report Share Posted June 30, 2004 for pontins will we need to book in advance? or just turn up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flydad Posted June 30, 2004 Report Share Posted June 30, 2004 ooops sorry Gary !!!! Never upset the class 8 master !!!!! Should that not be 'Classic Master' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big-jon Posted June 30, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2004 Pontins should be booked in advance please. I'll let Garry answer you on that 'classic' quote flydad - don't want to get myself in more trouble !!! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Cloud Posted July 2, 2004 Report Share Posted July 2, 2004 Maybe we should have a classic class? Pilots must use and original Peter Lynn folding buggy and pilots must be over 45! Kites must be at least 4 years old? What do you think? Gray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaRRy Posted July 2, 2004 Report Share Posted July 2, 2004 Maybe we should have a classic class? Pilots must use and original Peter Lynn folding buggy and pilots must be over 45! Kites must be at least 4 years old? What do you think? Gray Hey that proves im not a classic, im not 45 yet!! Think a class for kites that have been available for at least 4/5 years is a good idea as would allow a new buggier a chance to win something if could not afford the latest kit (Would also allow home built in this class as well to encourage them as you never know someone might come up with a brilliant new idea). As for Buggy cant say I agree Gray do you really want a little old PL toodling around on same course as you in your monster ?. May be restrict size and dimensions to those of a bog standard Libre Full race with Bigfoots Dont see point of the age restriction as age seems to have little to do with speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandMonster Posted July 2, 2004 Report Share Posted July 2, 2004 As for Buggy cant say I agree Gray do you really want a little old PL toodling around on same course as you in your monster ?. May be restrict size and dimensions to those of a bog standard Libre Full race with Bigfoots I must say I have similar concerns...will there be any point in entering if all you have to do to get anywhere is turn up with the biggest buggy with the biggest set of tyres & kites?? Or maybe the course will be so intricately twisty that the little buggies will retain some advantage??? I noticed that on other supercup events there were classes, beginners etc., but not for this event last time I looked. Any chance of a guide or FAQ for newbies somewhere as I'm sure many others have similar questions? Cheers Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8015 Posted July 2, 2004 Report Share Posted July 2, 2004 Hang on, Roger was 10th at Pendine on a kite which could very definitely be classed as homemade (although it was homemade in a kite factory), I believe Andy is using it mostly - do you really want Andy as a ringer in your "classic" class? Mike W - The team events only have 2 classes, standard and barrow, with barrows getting a handicap multiplier so at the end of the day all tams compete on a nearly level basis The 6 hour is a kind of team event so I assume a similar system will be used, after all you can't really have a novice team if 1 or 2 of the pilots are national fleet.... My guess is that Gray and Jon are still working out details like that? And as for the buggy size issue, every supercup I have been to has featured at least one PL or Flexi buggy (mine the first time), the way the fleet spreads it means they race each other and every now and then a bigfoot machine laps them It's the race within the race that counts for us back in the 40's and 50's! JIM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaRRy Posted July 2, 2004 Report Share Posted July 2, 2004 Jim We have several times over the years discussed the way to have a class that is fairer on the beginer/person who wants to race who has limited kit/cash Still say the following would be a good starting point Kite: Must have been first commercially available 5 years ago (Blade 1 will not even qualify till this September). Home made kites are allowed provided not a copy of a commercial design. Note home made would defined as built by the pilot and would not include manufacturers prototypes like the bag of sh!te(apparantly the kites Roger used is known as that). Also could have a system in place for homemades to ban a design if felt was abusing the rule. I do believe encouraging home made kites is good for the sport as speeds up innovation Buggy Max size should be that of a a full race with big foots (or there abouts). Could go as far as make it barrow size wheels only but feel that can be a big advantage to certain sizes of pilot and idea is to encourage all. Yes thats all I use at the moment but I could not enter as my kites dont match criteria. However this size seems resonable as comnpared to a lot of the top racers etc this is now a small buggy. Doesn't exclude PLynns etc but is less of a step down from the big buggers and with a change of kites could then enter the open class and be relativley competative. Age Dont really see need for this although might be nice in all classes to have a over 45 sub class (would say over 40 but that would be more than half the fleet ) Oh and the other class I want is for people born on 21st june 1960 who live in Tamworth. I might actually win that one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandMonster Posted July 2, 2004 Report Share Posted July 2, 2004 Garry, Not quite sure what your 5 year rule would do for us newbies? If blade I's are out I assume a lot of the usual 'beginners' kites LD's, Busters, Bullets etc. would get excluded. Or have they been around longer than that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QUOTH Posted July 2, 2004 Report Share Posted July 2, 2004 good point. is 3 years more practicle? i think its a great ideato use home made kites. it would be nice to have a rae just for them, but who knows if there are enough racers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaRRy Posted July 2, 2004 Report Share Posted July 2, 2004 Garry, Not quite sure what your 5 year rule would do for us newbies? If blade I's are out I assume a lot of the usual 'beginners' kites LD's, Busters, Bullets etc. would get excluded. Or have they been around longer than that? Good point so may be a list of allowed kites that have not been around for 5 years would also be allowed. I am certainly not suggesting anything is set in stone and if something expensive started to dominate I would expect the rules to change to reflect this. Also remember im not suggesting a newbie class more a low cost class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandMonster Posted July 2, 2004 Report Share Posted July 2, 2004 Also remember im not suggesting a newbie class more a low cost class.Ah now that's more like it...if max buggy cost The Ainsdale CheapStakes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaRRy Posted July 2, 2004 Report Share Posted July 2, 2004 good point. is 3 years more practicle? i think its a great ideato use home made kites. it would be nice to have a rae just for them, but who knows if there are enough racers Nope 3 years is to soon would allow in kites like Raptor 1's Mosquito pros Libre Boras predator 3's etc And for next season would allow in raptors/soulflys etc which brings us back to square 1 and makes the class pointless again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QUOTH Posted July 2, 2004 Report Share Posted July 2, 2004 Good point so may be a list of allowed kites that have not been around for 5 years would also be allowed. I am certainly not suggesting anything is set in stone and if something expensive started to dominate I would expect the rules to change to relative this. Also remember im not suggesting a newbie class more a low cost class. YAY, home made kites! taht means you can spend your allowed cash on a buggy :] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Bailey Posted July 2, 2004 Report Share Posted July 2, 2004 Did some thinking about this a while ago. The class system I came up with is: EX1 - Anything goes. Any kite. Any buggy. Any wheels. This class would be for the "Balls out racers" and for prototype buggies and kites. R1 - Any Race kite that would be taken from a list of kites designed for racing. Any buggy, Any Wheels. R2 - Any Race Kite that would be taken from a list of kites designed for racing. Any Buggy. Barrow wheels. S1 - Any "Standard" kite that would be from an pre-determind list. Any commerically available buggy - Excludes homebuilts or specials from manufacturers. Any wheels S2 - Any "Standard" kite that would be from an pre-determind list. Any commercially available buggy - Excludes homebuilts or specials from manufacturers. Barrow Wheels. The points system would work like this: 1st in Class = 100 2nd in Class = 90 3rd in Class = 80 4th in Class = 70 5th in Class = 60 6th in Class = 50 7th in Class = 40 8th in Class = 30 9th in Class = 20 10th in Class = 10 10 points would be awarded to every pilot that started the race (by crossing the start line) After each round the points scored would be added to the points table. The class order would be based on the pilot with the highest number of points being in the lead. At the end of the season, the pilot with the highest points (overall) would then be Overall Champion, with prizes being given for 1st, 2nd and 3rd in class. This is based on the system that we use in the motor racing, which means that the fastest guy doesn't always win the championship, and gives people the ability to win class honours. Just my thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaRRy Posted July 2, 2004 Report Share Posted July 2, 2004 Simon I reckon your on to something there obviously might need fine tuning (think classes need looking at) but general principle sounds good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QUOTH Posted July 2, 2004 Report Share Posted July 2, 2004 Hazaa! :] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Bailey Posted July 2, 2004 Report Share Posted July 2, 2004 Sorry forgot to mention a couple of points. There would also be a Class "G" that would be for guests (or invitation). These pilots would not score points, but would place in the race with the accolades that go with their finishing place. This is to cover situations such as at Pendine, where the XXRacer crew came over. The "Lists" of approved kites would be decided by the Super Cup officials and be made available for competitors prior to the season starting. New kites released after the "Lists" were drawn up, would remain as EX1 or G class until they were assessed and included in the appropriate "List". To qualify as a "Commercial" buggy at least 10 must have been made (kinda like Homologanation (spl)). Modification of "Standard" or "Race" kites would be allowed, with the exception that the "Foil" itself must remain standard, i.e. bridle, lines, de-power systems, control systems can be modified or custom made, but the actual foil itself must remain as it is supplied from the factory for retail sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaRRy Posted July 2, 2004 Report Share Posted July 2, 2004 To qualify as a "Commercial" buggy at least 10 must have been made (kinda like Homologanation (spl)). . Personally rather than commercial /non commercial buggies would rather see size/weight/wheel restrictions because as with homemade kites would like to encourage home built buggies (again developement improves the breed). Are you coming to Hoylake for Super Cup maybe some of us could get together and thrash out a more precise structure to propose to Super Cup/PKA etc ? I like your scoring system guess real area for discussion would be what classes (Dont want to many/few and need to be obvious what is what class) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Bailey Posted July 2, 2004 Report Share Posted July 2, 2004 Garry, yeah coming over Sat to get some practice in, then doing SC on Sun. The idea of the commercial / non-commercial buggies was to promote the use of "off the shelf" buggies, whilst still allowing the homebuilts a class to run in. Like you say needs discussing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaRRy Posted July 2, 2004 Report Share Posted July 2, 2004 how about following classes (plus guest) Open Buggy Any that meets currently Fisly Rules Kite Any that meets currently Fisly Rules Restricted 1 Buggy Any that meets currently Fisly Rules Kite Any that was comercially available 3 years ago Any built by pilot provided not a copy of a commercial design Restricted 2 Buggy Any that meets currently Fisly Rules in addition buggy must be no more than 1.75 meters long and 1.75 meters wide including wheels Kite Any that was comercially available 5 years ago or on allowed list Any built by pilot provided not a copy of a commercial design Restricted 3 Buggy Any that meets currently Fisly Rules in addition buggy must be no more than 1.5 meters long and 1.25 meters wide including wheels wheels must have max diameter of 16 inches (ie wheel barrow) Kite Any that was comercially available 5 years ago or on allowed list Any built by pilot provided not a copy of a commercial design Allowed List (Note this is only a sample for now) PKD Busters Flexifoil Bullet Ozone Little Devil HQ Buster Note dimesion are approx at mo but are meant to reflect full race in R2 and PL/flexi in R3. think this would be plenty of classes for now and seems to allow for all budgets pretty well.Only real issue is wheels and been as these are getting cheaper (at least for lights) dont feel a "barrow" class is really that relevant as above classes allow nice progression up the class as budget etc allow Edit one other thought for PKA racing could run Open/R1 as national and R2/R3 as club Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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