Northern Kites Australia Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 Hi guys, I want to expand my kite bladder repair business and into the wonderful world (or the dark arts!) of kite sail repairs and stitching. Chook - I think you sew your own kites? What sewing maching (cheap as possible) would you recommend, what needles, what threads? And techniques will be helpful too as I have no idea how you would sew foil kites that have two layers for example. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinbad Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 Jason and Northern Kites Australia 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goz Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 I don't think Chook's is as flash as that one Terry Northern Kites Australia 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igeighty Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 (edited) Anything with metal gears, most machines now have nylon gears, i personally use a Janome from the late 80's sews through several layers of Dacron and webbing without skipping. look for something that does 'triple step zigzig' use the best synthetic (polyester) threads. that won't rot, don't use cotton. practice loads on scrap. as regards to sewing through double layered foils, you don't you need to unpick those suckers and sew them back up again. but that is being very generalised. get a ton of ripstop offcuts and practise practise practise. grab a hotknife for cutting and your good to go Oh, and buy this http://www.amazon.com/The-Penguin-Book-Kites-Original/dp/0140041176 its a bloody ripper little book, with some good seem techniques Edited August 10, 2015 by igeighty added book Northern Kites Australia 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 I think these are "cheap" http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-1993-Singer-Toy-Sewing-Machine-with-Accessory-Case-Thread-Works-/191651704826 Chook and igeighty 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chook Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 (edited) It's been a bit of a trial to get to where I am Fernando. I started off pinching my wife's "Globe" and this is what I still do all my power kite repairs with. 110 needles and a quality polyester denim thread. This machine does a neat triple Zigzag stitch but it's only a 6mm total width stitch. Its an all steel geared machine and I've given it hell and it's pulled through. I modified my first 15 windsurfer sails for land yachts with this machine. Cranking it over by hand in the thick materials till I had blisters on the right hand. Note the fishing rod as the thread dispenser. Kite repairs are not difficult, but do take time to complete well. Repairing tears are quite straight forward once you work out how to get into them. To get the sail cloth set back into it's original position it's usually a lot of unpicking to get access to the point and to be able to get to it with the machine to then sew it up. Some kites can be turned inside out through the front openings and worked on, but only on about a 6 m2 and up, (if your really lucky for access) and if it's only a simple rip from air transfer hole to hole through a rib for instance. If I'm attaching sticky backed sailcloth or Dacron as a repair, it "must" be zigzag stitched around the edge or it will eventually lift with the heat of the sun. It will hold for a while though. To stitch this I use a light poly sewing thread with a fine 90 needle, so as not to weaken the original canopy too much. It's just to secure the patch. I do all these first when repairing. This is why usually it's much quicker in the end to unpick the trailing edge/bladder and along a rib if necessary to get access in there. It's much easier and quicker in the long run. As you unpick anything, just make small reference marks with a lead pencil on all the layers so they can be realigned to these reference points as you resew it back together. To fix a rip. Lay the rip out along a bit of thin ply or thick cardboard (what ever you can fit in the area easily. I have all different shapes) and get it all lined up so the fibres match and then place sticky tape along the tear easing it all back into position as you go. Take your time and smooth the tape down securely. When your happy turn it over and apply the sticky backed sail cloth and make sure it's all positioned well. Turn back over to the original side and carefully remove the sticky tape being careful not to ease up any parts and then place another layer of stick backed cloth over the tear. The patches should all have their corners radiused off so there is no stress points or sharp corners to lift. The patches can then be sewn using zigzag. To refit a rib back into the kite, a lot of care is needed to get the 3 layers of cloth lined up as it originally was. Lots of pins can be used and I just sew the rib to ONLY one skin using a long straight stitch along the seam closest to the edge of the material. That takes care of the alignment and then use the correct stitch length and then carefully stitch the other skin to this already aligned pair. I find this and the reference marks make sure the canopy patterns match and the correct profile is maintained as it's all sewn back together. Sails are a whole different ball game as they are loaded with up to 15 layers of Dacron and sail cloth. Some times as much as 9mm of thickness with huge densities/tensiles need to be sewn through. For this I use a 120 to 170 needle and thread size of 68 or 92 on heavy thicknesses. To top this off the monofilm can be a real bugger to sew. It has to be covered both sides with cloth to be able to sew it without the risk of tearing it. It heats needles and cuts threads when any quantity/layers are used. A walking foot machine is a necessity for windsurfer sails and "huge" foot pressures to hold the materials while the needle is being withdrawn while sewing. I use a Clone of the Sailrite walking foot machine for the lighter jobs (5mm wide zigzag) 6mm long straight stitch. I have now added the power wheel to the belt drive that halved the sewing speed and increased it's sewing capacity. See "Strong arm" the Australian agents for these clones now. (I bought my direct from overseas before there was an Aussie agent) They are exactly the same machine as the Sailrite, made by the same company in Taiwan. Parts are easy to get and most of it's components are marked "Singer" and the parts interchange. For layers of sailcloth Dacron I use double sided carpet tape to hold it all in position before sewing. You need quality tape as the stuff you get at most office supplies is crap. It is REALLY thin and sticks to anything for positioning. I strip the roll into strips with a snap blade knife to the widths I need to laminate. Usually 10mm. So 5x 10mm strips of a 50mm wide 48mtr roll for about $22.00 a roll. For the heavy duty work I use this "patching machine" (no one bid on it from flea bay and scored it in Perth West Aust for $99.00). This machine can be treadled or hand cranked. The beauty of this is precision and the best bit is it sews all directions 360 degrees. The foot rotates to reverse. It can sew anything up to 11mm thick. Including 10mm plywood (when I tried it for a bet). I use a combination of these machines to repair my kites, sails and do the odd bit of canvas work. It will take up to a 180 needle and 130 thread. This Singer 491 was too fast and only a straight stitch so wasn't suitable for me. It was given to me by my brother. Just sits in my shed. It's made for sewing curtains etc. Only straight stitch at 3,500 stitches a minute. I'm not sure why my text changed there? Edited August 10, 2015 by Chook SoutherlyBuster, Northern Kites Australia and Goz 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igeighty Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 wow chook, thats a highly enviable work environment. after moving here to Melbourne, we ended up in a rental, its a nice house on a large block, but has no garage and no cupboards, so the backroom is floor to ceiling of storage boxes. I am slowly trying to convert it back into a workable sewing area. Also mate excellent writeup. and some great gear, both metal fab and the sewing paradise !! Northern Kites Australia 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chook Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 wow chook, thats a highly enviable work environment. after moving here to Melbourne, we ended up in a rental, its a nice house on a large block, but has no garage and no cupboards, so the backroom is floor to ceiling of storage boxes. I am slowly trying to convert it back into a workable sewing area. Also mate excellent writeup. and some great gear, both metal fab and the sewing paradise !! Hey cheers for that. I live in the shed and sleep in the house. Don't watch much TV at all. Build toys. Joel rang the other day and I counted them up. There are 13 landyachts in the shed. I've designed and raced 25 so far. Built 5 buggys, and have a PL Mk1 as well. Here is a ring roller I built to make Penny Farthing rims. Rolled 8 front and rear wheels so far for mates. Rolling the handle for it. Then made the base cutting it out of RHS with the plasma cutter. I machined up all the dies freehand on the lathe one wet winter by the heater. All dies were made from 100mm and 125mm 1040 shafting. the_hatman, Goz, igeighty and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_hatman Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 shed envy, knead to build one (if I can fined some flat ground on the block). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaysmith Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 massive shed envy. I have to make do with this little workshop Chook 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Kites Australia Posted August 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 Anything with metal gears, most machines now have nylon gears, i personally use a Janome from the late 80's sews through several layers of Dacron and webbing without skipping. look for something that does 'triple step zigzig' use the best synthetic (polyester) threads. that won't rot, don't use cotton. practice loads on scrap. as regards to sewing through double layered foils, you don't you need to unpick those suckers and sew them back up again. but that is being very generalised. get a ton of ripstop offcuts and practise practise practise. grab a hotknife for cutting and your good to go Oh, and buy this http://www.amazon.com/The-Penguin-Book-Kites-Original/dp/0140041176 its a bloody ripper little book, with some good seem techniques Awesome! Thank you guys. Wow Chook... Thank you so much for that very informative response. Sorry you took ages to put it together (I assume), but thank you so much! Yeah shed-envy alright! I thought for a moment you bought a Bunnings store! This is so exciting for me, to learn this craft of building and repairing kite sails, cloths, etc. I thought bladders were bad enough, but sewing... that's another level again. One day I'd love to make my own 15m kite from scratch and call it the OLMOST (for OLMOS or OLMOIST!?). LOL Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chook Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 Hey all good. I can get a kite or sail back up and running/modified, but you need to see Kevin and Linda's work to really appreciate brilliant quality. http://ozfeathers.com.au/wordpress/author/linda/page/2/ Northern Kites Australia 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goz Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 Jebus Chooky is there anything you don't have out in the shed. Just need a wormhole through to the beach at Yeppoon and you will be set Northern Kites Australia 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Kites Australia Posted August 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 (edited) Hey Chook. Can your rim making machine make road cycling rims - 700c or 27" rims? Edited August 12, 2015 by Fernando Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chook Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 You wouldn't believe my wish list Gozzy. A TIG welder would be handy, but anything I need TIG welded I just take to work and do. No it wont roll alloy at all well. Bike manufacturers use a shaped extrusion to roll into rims to get double and triple walled rims. I've tried rerolling an alloy one to fix a buckled rim and it did it, but wasn't accurate enough for me to be happy with the result. Also I didn't know if the alloy had been fractured in some way during the prang/ fixing. My Penny Farthing rims are made from 20mm or 25mm OD tube (20mm or a 25mm solid tyre for dirt roads) rolled into slightly smaller diameter than required. It's then scarfed at 45 degrees ,an internal joiner added to the inside of the rim and its plug welded into position through 8mm holes on the inside of the rim. Then I fully weld it at the scarfed join and then the ring is reversed rolled to make a smiley face. By rolling into a ring first it keeps the rim very true and will end up within 1mm of diameter and wobble less than that. The reverse roll stretches the rim a certain amount and this is taken into account if for instance a 52" diameter finished rim height is required. Took some trial and error to arrive at this finished measurement. This construction method takes all the strain off the spokes which are 12g trying to pull/strain a rim true. Broken spokes are a problem with the "Ordinary Bicycle" or Penny Farthing as we call them. So it's really important to get it as true as possible. Some I have seen made are bloody terrible and trued up using spoke tension. This comes back to bite you literally on the arse in the long run. Sorry I always get away from the subject. Sewing machines wasn't it. Yeh but "Singer" made bloody good bikes too. Northern Kites Australia and SoutherlyBuster 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoutherlyBuster Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 Woow Chook, so you could make your own Buggy spoked wheels then? Oh and the sewing to token, and sew a cover for them as well ... just to keep the thread on track Chook and Northern Kites Australia 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coviti Posted July 29, 2022 Report Share Posted July 29, 2022 Hello all. I've decided that if I ever want new sail covers, a fitted boom tent, and new cockpit cusion covers I'm going to have to make them myself (or get a woman on board that can sew ) ... so for those who keep one onboard. What sewing machine do you have?... how would you rate it?... is it strong enough for boat canvas/sunbrella applications... obviously the smaller the better for storage purposes but when I look at the smaller ones at the store they all seem a bit.... well, cheaply built... but who knows.... www.sewingempire.com/ recommendatoins appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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